Bigfoot - The Patterson-Gimlin Film

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...What about trying to demonstrate
"If science can't find bigfoot, its must be science's own fault, because *I* can't possibly be wrong."
Is not a typicall reasoning of a believer....

How about you proving your claim that is "a typicall reasoning of a believer".

Originally Posted by Huntster :
For people who don't understand, try to manipulate, or cheat with the language?

You betcha.

*cough* It seems the person who is having problems with the language is not exactly this humble South American...

Or can you prove the opposite?

Again, who were you quoting?

Your lack of an answer is ample "evidence".

Originally Posted by Huntster :
And anyone who has had any experience dealing with lawyers, politicians, or other consummate liars knows what your intent was; to create a discrediting statement and make it appear like it applies to your victim.

Would you be, by some reason or circunstance, suggesting I am liar?

Not yet.

Who are you quoting?

Carefull here, you are on slippery terrain and it may turn back to you...

I'm on firm footing here.

Who are you quoting?

Originally Posted by Huntster :
So, again; who are you quoting?

Well, I have already answered.

Where and when?

Originally Posted by Huntster :
Seek and analyze evidence to prove or disprove phenomena.

And if the conclusion is that there are no bigfeet?

Then that is what you will likely believe.

That is not what I have found.

And if the conclusion is that the evidence is pretty weak?

Then that is what you will likely believe.

Originally Posted by Huntster :
The number of them, their concentration in specific areas, the lack of them in other areas, their consistency, their history, the mathematical possibility that they could all be wrong, and combine them with the other evidence.

Once again you claim they are consistent. They are not. We've already discussed it and IIRC it was one of Kitakaze's first questions. The alleged consistency appears only after a substantial filtering of descriptions. Unless your criteria for consistency is just "hairy bipedal vaguely humanoid".

"Hairy", "bipedal", and "vaguely humanoid" are all consistencies.

So is "huge".

And again you claim its not mathematically possible that they are all wrong.

That is not what I wrote.

My words:

the mathematical possibility that they could all be wrong
 
Originally Posted by Huntster :
And anyone who claims to believe that the sasquatch species might exist is automatically "unreliable".

Can you back this claim?
Or its just another empty claim of yours?

You must be joking:

"I don't think Bigfoot exists. But Grover didn't deserve the kind of treatment he got for pursuing this question. ... He was severely criticized for it."

But Krantz' challenge on Bigfoot provoked more than scientific debate. It created unwelcome controversy and allegations of "fringe science" that Tyler said cost him some promotions and almost prevented him from getting a tenured post at WSU.

Jeff Meldrum, a professor of anthropology and primate anatomy expert at Idaho State University in Pocatello, thinks it's the scientific community that has lost something in its rejection of Krantz' work on Bigfoot -- objectivity and an open mind.
 
Oh, how cute, another flame from the tough-man-from-the-north!

Check this link:
http://www.uis-karst.kiev.ua/uis_karst/SEKAcont.htm

It doesn't matter if you were the most reknown scientist in the world, the simple fact that you don't believe that sasquatch exists makes you less than a scientist in huntster's mind. He's a bleever, his belief is all that matters, not logic, not evidence and definitely not credibility.
 
It doesn't matter if you were the most reknown scientist in the world, the simple fact that you don't believe that sasquatch exists makes you less than a scientist in huntster's mind....

No, it doesn't.

It's when someone says "they don't exist" that they expose themselves as a pseudo-scientist, because that person simply doesn't have the scientific authority to state such.

Period, no matter how much you dislike that fact.

Go have a drink, Ken (see sig lines below...........................)

(BTW, you misspelled Kim's name in your sig line; it's Kim Jong-Il, not Kim Jong-Li)
 
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It's when someone says "they don't exist", or "there's no evidence", or other such extreme falsehood that they expose themselves as a pseudo-scientist, because that person simply doesn't have the scientific authority to state such.

This might be a point, if there really wasn't any credible scientific evidence of sasquatch.

Go thump some more bible.
 
....Go thump some more bible.

Okay:

....Ever since the creation of the world, his invisible attributes of eternal power and divinity have been able to be understood and perceived in what he has made. As a result, they have no excuse; for although they knew God they did not accord him glory as God or give him thanks. Instead, they became vain in their reasoning, and their senseless minds were darkened. While claiming to be wise, they became fools........
Romans 1:20-22
 
I beg your pardon, but don't you think there are some slightly fishy issues on the tale?
Absolutely. I guess I shoulda used a smiley or something but that's why I put 'got salt?' at the end. As in 'this dubious anecdote needs to be taken with a grain of salt' (understatement).
 
No, it doesn't.

It's when someone says "THEY EXIST" that they expose themselves as a pseudo-scientist, because that person simply doesn't have the scientific authority to state such.

Period, no matter how much you dislike that fact.

Fixed another of your quotes for ya Fudley. Sorry couldn't resist,it was just hanging there right in my wheelhouse.

Of course I also believe my revisement of your quote to be closer to reality.
 
Absolutely. I guess I shoulda used a smiley or something but that's why I put 'got salt?' at the end. As in 'this dubious anecdote needs to be taken with a grain of salt' (understatement).

Well, among the fishynesses, the one that caught my attention was rearding the very nature of their work. Was it related, supported or backed by some institution or they were just amateur archeologists?

Gimme, salt, pepper, vinegar, olive oil, etc. ...
 
You gentlemen are now free to cite any and all funding from any and all scientific academy, fraternity, organization, or society to any accredited scientist which has been provided to search for or analyze evidence of sasquatch.

I have already listed many scientists who have worked or are working on sasquatch. A museum just hosted the beastie as well. Funds must be coming from somewhere....

Who is going to use government money without any real evidence, though?
Who is going to fund guys who invented a foot out of whole cloth?
Who is going to fund a guy who posts bear tracks on his sasquatch page?

The argument about funding is ridiculous. Way too much money is spent on bigfoot, imo.

Clean out the garbage first, and maybe the subject will shift a little more to the mainstream.
 
How about you proving your claim that is "a typicall reasoning of a believer".
Sure.
Read threads started by the following people here at JREF:
Lifegazer, Navigator, Killik, woodwater, Franko, Rodney, Interesting Ian, [add believer of your prefference and/or debating skill level here]. Check the debates, the tactics and the reasonings.
Now, if you do lack some basic text interpretation skills, this excercise will be pretty useless.

Again, who were you quoting?

Your lack of an answer is ample "evidence".
You seem to be consitently missing the parts where I tell you its an interpretation of a believer's behavior and reasoning. Again I (as a display of my magnificient sportsmanship and goodwill) kindly remind you that insisting on these obfuscation and diversion attemps, may cause people to start thinking you have some issues when it comes to text interpretation skills. Or they might think you just run out of arguments a long time ago and have to rely on semantic games.

Not yet calling me a liar? But you are looking for a reason, aren't you? Be carefull. If you ever dare to do so, you'd better be able to back it. Or you will be caught with your pants down.

I'm on firm footing here.

Who are you quoting?
Your standarts for qualifying footing as firm are quite low. Just like those you use to qualify evidence... Again I (as a display of my magnificient sportsmanship and goodwill) will warn you about the big slippery footing you are (pun intended).

Still trying to use diversion, eh?

BTW, mind answering another question?
Why you got so jumpy with my rendering of what I consider to be typicall believer reasoning?

Here it is again, in case you have forgotten:
"If science can't find bigfoot, its must be science's own fault, because *I* can't possibly be wrong."
What's in the above sentence that annoys you so much?

Oh, sure, I can be PC and say some believers do not behave like that. But many (probably most) do. I would be delighted to be shown I am wrong. Would you able to do that?

Then that is what you will likely believe.

That is not what I have found.
So, once again, why should we consider your "analysis" better than ours?
Please answer and avoid semantic games.

Then that is what you will likely believe.
Oh, a semantic game again... Why I amnot surprised?
Since today I am feeling quite magnificient and with elevated sportsmanship and goodwill levels, I will write a couple of lines on the issue, that has already been explained to you by other posters. When someone uses scientific methodology to analyse a subject, and say something like "we belive that", it actually means "after carefull evaluation of the avaliable data we concluded that". No leap of faith is required. Its very different from the meaning you are ascribing, where little or no evidence is required. Feel free to quote a dictionary to counter. But be carefull not to look silly for relying on a mere semantic game or to have problems with interpretation of texts.

Oh, will you ask who I am quoting?

"Hairy", "bipedal", and "vaguely humanoid" are all consistencies.

So is "huge".
And what else would be needed in your opinion to labell the descriptions as "consisten"?
Or you consider this as being enough to labell the descriptions from sightings as consistent?

That is not what I wrote.

My words:
the mathematical possibility that they could all be wrong
Mathematical possibility, oh tough-man-from-the-North, implies the possibility can be mathematically evaluated and/or demonstrated. In the case, using statistic probability chalculations. So, please provide us the math. If not, admit you or someone else just made a claim without any real solid backing.
 
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You will have to do better than that. I congratulate you, however, for not just quoting a dictionaire and making silly semantic games.

The critics they received were triggered by the data handling they displayed. But we already discussed this issue, hadn't we? If they accepted the critics and tried to do a better job on filtering the data, instead of just keep on insisting on stuff such as PGF, probably things would have been different.

You know what? If instead of concluding bigfeet are real, if they adopted a position like "bigfeet may be real or not", things would most likely be different.

Approach Huntster, that's what its all about. Have you noticed how different are the responses Tube, Dfoot and you receive here? Are they "close-minded-pseudoscientists"? Think about it for a while.

That was another display of my magnificient sportsmanship and goodwill.
 
Useless

That was another display of my magnificient sportsmanship and goodwill.

Frankly after 103 page of the same rehashed-lukewarm argument with various "condiment" to try to make it more palatable I have only this to say : abbandon sportmanship and goodwill. All we want now is blood and a quick kill :). A nice corpse would do too. Baring that further discussion is useless. it is doubtfull that sasq bleevr at that point have any good argument left.
 
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Originally Posted by Huntster :
Again, who were you quoting?

Your lack of an answer is ample "evidence".

You seem to be consitently missing the parts where I tell you its an interpretation of a believer's behavior and reasoning....

Interpretation = opinion.

I suppose your opinion is like thaiboxerken's? (See sig lines below..................)

Again I (as a display of my magnificient sportsmanship and goodwill) kindly remind you that insisting on these obfuscation and diversion attemps, may cause people to start thinking you have some issues when it comes to text interpretation skills.

Your "magnificent sportsmanship and goodwill" leave lots to be desired.

Like your "interpretation" skills.

I'm interpreting text perfectly. You're interpreting attitudes and beliefs very poorly, and assigning them indescriminately.

Or they might think you just run out of arguments a long time ago and have to rely on semantic games.

Like you've resorted to "interpreting" games?

Originally Posted by Huntster :
Not yet.

Not yet calling me a liar? But you are looking for a reason, aren't you?

Damned right.

Be carefull. If you ever dare to do so, you'd better be able to back it. Or you will be caught with your pants down.

Yeah. You'll just turn the lie into "interpretation".

Unfortunately, your type aren't as rare as sasquatches.

BTW, mind answering another question?
Why you got so jumpy with my rendering of what I consider to be typicall believer reasoning?

I want to be sure you aren't putting words into my mouth. Others on this forum like to pull that crap.

Here it is again, in case you have forgotten:

"If science can't find bigfoot, its must be science's own fault, because *I* can't possibly be wrong."

What's in the above sentence that annoys you so much?

The quotation marks, and the lack of a citation.

Oh, sure, I can be PC and say some believers do not behave like that. But many (probably most) do. I would be delighted to be shown I am wrong. Would you able to do that?

Not yet.
 
Originally Posted by Huntster :
You must be joking:
You will have to do better than that. I congratulate you, however, for not just quoting a dictionaire and making silly semantic games.

It's never quite good enough, is it?

The critics they received were triggered by the data handling they displayed. But we already discussed this issue, hadn't we? If they accepted the critics and tried to do a better job on filtering the data, instead of just keep on insisting on stuff such as PGF, probably things would have been different.

Somehow I doubt that.

It's never quite good enough, is it?

You know what? If instead of concluding bigfeet are real, if they adopted a position like "bigfeet may be real or not", things would most likely be different.

Again, you must be joking! That's the exact position I take here, yet it is no different.

It's never quite good enough, is it?

Approach Huntster, that's what its all about. Have you noticed how different are the responses Tube, Dfoot and you receive here? Are they "close-minded-pseudoscientists"? Think about it for a while.

Sorry. I'm a bull in a china shop. I don't like being looked or talked down to, and will quite happily just fight than convince anybody of anything.

That was another display of my magnificient sportsmanship and goodwill.

I'm still not impressed.
 
Interpretation = opinion.

I suppose your opinion is like thaiboxerken's? (See sig lines below..................)
My opinion on what subject you want to know?
If its about bigfeet, you already know it: They are most likely not real.
If its about an OT issue, either start a new thread or read something I posted at an old one about it.

Your "magnificent sportsmanship and goodwill" leave lots to be desired.

Like your "interpretation" skills.

I'm interpreting text perfectly. You're interpreting attitudes and beliefs very poorly, and assigning them indescriminately.
Prove it.
Prove my interpretation skills are poor.
Prove your interpretation of data about bigfeet is better than mine or anyone else's on this board (no, beckjord does not qualify).
Can you? If not, mind if I advise you to be quiet?

Damned right.

Yeah. You'll just turn the lie into "interpretation".

Unfortunately, your type aren't as rare as sasquatches.
Listen, oh tough-man-from-the-North, if you can prove I am a liar, do it. I challenge you. Go ahead, make my day. If you can't, shut up.

I want to be sure you aren't putting words into my mouth. Others on this forum like to pull that crap.

The quotation marks, and the lack of a citation.
Oh, please... You are making a fool of yourself continuing on such a line.

Now, why don't you stop the rants, obsfuscation, diversion, ad hominem attacks and start offering something valuable to the discussion? Can you do this? If you can, good, at last I will consider you to be game and we'll start a real match.

So it was yet another claim you can't back then...
 
Sorry. I'm a bull in a china shop. I don't like being looked or talked down to, and will quite happily just fight than convince anybody of anything.
Then, if you have nothing worthy to offer, you will get what you are seeding.

Enjoy the bashing you regularly receive.

Goodby for now. Gotta see a soccer match.
 
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