Bigfoot - The Patterson-Gimlin Film

[Mad Hom]

Speaking of prints not matching...does anyone know of any links to the pictures Roger Larraby took at Bluff Creek. I've read somewhere that he took three,one right and two left but the two left foot photo's don't match. In one the toe-line is almost horizontal in the other it slants greatly.

Anyone know where I can lay my peepers on these photos?

 

[Huntster]

...In 1967 how many people were seeking to film a Hairy Biped Of Questionable Existence? How many have been seeking to film it in the intervening 40 years? You mean to tell me that far more people,using far better equipment,that's far easier to be proficient at can't come up with anything better than the Manitoba Blobsquatch or The Memorial Day Sprint? C'mon Fudd!!

Don't make me whip out my flying squirrel analogy on ya':

First

Second

 

[Huntster]

....Whenever I see this sorry excuse for a squatch-print, some immediate questions come to mind:

1. is this the BEST print of the many discovered that day?

I don't know.

2. if not, WHY is this particular picture so valuable when it seems so distinctly different from OTHER squatch-prints?

I don't know.

3. is it possible to see ALL the other footprints in the trackway?

No. I've seen others claimed to be from that trackway on a Meldrum website, but I don't think that was "all" of them

4. why is it impossible that THIS particular print was left by a bear?

It's not "impossible". From his "analysis" of the photo, LTC insists it is.

Tube has seen the same photo, and has handled the cast of that print. He says that he does not believe it is a bear print.

So, the "skeptics" should believe LTC.

I'll reserve judgement, but lend more credence to tube.

 

[LTC8K6]

http://www.bigfootforums.com/index.php?s=&showtopic=4301&view=findpost&p=85931

Some interesting stuff in this repost of Perez's "prosecution" of the PGF.

 

[tube]

I'll see if I can corner Jeff Meldrum at the upcoming Pocatello conference and ask him about the circumstances of this photo. I believe he is going to be exhibiting a bunch of casts from his collection, so I'll see if I can get some photographs of the CAST that will provide a better understanding than just the track photo.

What concerns me about guys like Paul Freeman, Ivan Marx, and possible even Ray Wallace is that at one time or another they were all closely associated with the most credible Bigfoot researchers of their day. For Wallace it was Byrne, Green, and Dahinden. For Marx it was Byrne, Dahinden, Green, and Grover Krantz. For Freeman it was Grover Krantz and Jeff Meldrum.

Now if you trust someone, you are usually willing to discuss your theories and speculations with that person. Is it possible that these suspected hoaxers received information from the "experts" which they then used to further their hoaxing?

Is it possible that Paul Freeman discussed "mid-tarsal breaks", "half-tracks" and "dermals" with Jeff Meldrum? Is it possible that Freeman fabricated "half-tracks" based on theories shared with Meldrum?

It's also quite possible to figure things out on your own. Imagine if I had not publicly detailed the casting artifact business, and chose to fabricate tracks or casts that included this texture? In all likelihood, it would have come to be accepted as "real", and possibly even as "good" evidence. It's possible Freeman simply figured out plausible fabrications on his own.

 

[Mad Hom]

Don't make me whip out my flying squirrel analogy on ya':

First

Second

Ok two things...

Hairy Bipeds or so I have heard are ever so slightly....

LARGER THAN A FLYING SQUIRREL!!!

Tell me people didn't laugh at your analogy with robust vigor. Regardless,I won't believe you.

Secondly,if we for a second take your Rocky the Squirrel analogy seriously....

That makes Patterson seem even more lucky to have caught one on film in the first place after only searching a few days. I guess that's why he never went back,I mean he basically pulled the first one out of his arse. A second trip would have been financed and probably had a higher headcount than just He and Bob G (oh and Bob H) Ruling out a second hoax,and failure would have dulled the glare of the limelight he was enjoying...I mean especially if he couldn't even find Patty's old man or heck even some tracks on a second trip given that Patterson almost always found something when he went out. Now I see why he never went back,it would have been lose lose.

 

[Mad Hom]

http://www.bigfootforums.com/index.php?s=&showtopic=4301&view=findpost&p=85931

Some interesting stuff in this repost of Perez's "prosecution" of the PGF.

Taken as a whole I think it paints a picture of sheistiness. Any combination of three of those suspicious items should cast doubt and it usually does....

....well with people without hooks in their mouths at least.

 

[Mad Hom]

I'll see if I can corner Jeff Meldrum at the upcoming Pocatello conference and ask him about the circumstances of this photo. I believe he is going to be exhibiting a bunch of casts from his collection, so I'll see if I can get some photographs of the CAST that will provide a better understanding than just the track photo.

What concerns me about guys like Paul Freeman, Ivan Marx, and possible even Ray Wallace is that at one time or another they were all closely associated with the most credible Bigfoot researchers of their day. For Wallace it was Byrne, Green, and Dahinden. For Marx it was Byrne, Dahinden, Green, and Grover Krantz. For Freeman it was Grover Krantz and Jeff Meldrum.

Now if you trust someone, you are usually willing to discuss your theories and speculations with that person. Is it possible that these suspected hoaxers received information from the "experts" which they then used to further their hoaxing?

Is it possible that Paul Freeman discussed "mid-tarsal breaks", "half-tracks" and "dermals" with Jeff Meldrum? Is it possible that Freeman fabricated "half-tracks" based on theories shared with Meldrum?

It's also quite possible to figure things out on your own. Imagine if I had not publicly detailed the casting artifact business, and chose to fabricate tracks or casts that included this texture? In all likelihood, it would have come to be accepted as "real", and possibly even as "good" evidence. It's possible Freeman simply figured out plausible fabrications on his own.

I'm completely digging your line of thought tube. The Mind of a Hoaxer is the one thing Bigfoot Fan always underestimates.They tend to lump them together as "underhanded,stupid,dirtbags with no lives" to quote a Footer obviously distraught over another promising lead revealed as a hoax...yet again. (Mt Hood Photo)

I think the prospect that Meldumb et al MAY have been/are self fulfilling their own hairy biped hypothesis by proxy is hilarious.

PS- Has anyone found me a link for the Larraby photos yet? I'm still looking myself but I was hoping for a little help.

 

[Huntster]

I'll see if I can corner Jeff Meldrum at the upcoming Pocatello conference and ask him about the circumstances of this photo. I believe he is going to be exhibiting a bunch of casts from his collection, so I'll see if I can get some photographs of the CAST that will provide a better understanding than just the track photo....

Certainly, you (as well as the famous LTC0 are aware of Meldrum's website regarding that print (as well as the others)?

There were several individual prints in the trackway photographed, if not casted.

I certainly respect your work in footprint manufacturing. I doubt Meldrum has worked that angle.

However, he is an accreditted professor of primate locomotion. His analysis also holds some water.

I think your review of his work will be interesting, and I look forward to your opinions (just like I currently hold your work to be valid).

What concerns me about guys like Paul Freeman, Ivan Marx, and possible even Ray Wallace is that at one time or another they were all closely associated with the most credible Bigfoot researchers of their day. For Wallace it was Byrne, Green, and Dahinden. For Marx it was Byrne, Dahinden, Green, and Grover Krantz. For Freeman it was Grover Krantz and Jeff Meldrum.

Now if you trust someone, you are usually willing to discuss your theories and speculations with that person. Is it possible that these suspected hoaxers received information from the "experts" which they then used to further their hoaxing?

No doubt about it.

And, funny, it didn't really pay off like I suspected the hoaxers had hoped.

These were people who had invested time and energy in the search. When it didn't "pay off", they got into the hoaxing.

I think that's because they wasted good earning power and time seeking a creature that bested them. As finances closed in on them, they got desperate.

It's also quite possible to figure things out on your own. Imagine if I had not publicly detailed the casting artifact business, and chose to fabricate tracks or casts that included this texture? In all likelihood, it would have come to be accepted as "real", and possibly even as "good" evidence. It's possible Freeman simply figured out plausible fabrications on his own.

To what end? Payoff? Fame?

The payoff doesn't seem to come, does it?

And the fame?

Ultimately, what fame is there for one who is a liar?:

You're a liar.

 

[Huntster]

...Hairy Bipeds or so I have heard are ever so slightly....

LARGER THAN A FLYING SQUIRREL!!!

Yup. And seen about as often.

Tell me people didn't laugh at your analogy with robust vigor. Regardless,I won't believe you....

Yeah, they did laugh. They also doubted. (That's why I linked #1 and #2)

Regardless, it's true. Despite living a long time in the woods in flying squirrel country, I'd never seen one until Mrs. Huntster's cat dragged one home.

That was after reading about how plentiful they are, and commented on that on BFF.

Lucky, I guess. Like Patterson.

I haven't seen a flying squirrel carcass since, have never seen a live specimen, probably never will, and will bet that none of you ever have/will.

Secondly,if we for a second take your Rocky the Squirrel analogy seriously....

That makes Patterson seem even more lucky to have caught one on film in the first place after only searching a few days. I guess that's why he never went back,I mean he basically pulled the first one out of his arse.

And probably figured that he "had the goods".

A second trip would have been financed and probably had a higher headcount than just He and Bob G (oh and Bob H) Ruling out a second hoax,and failure would have dulled the glare of the limelight he was enjoying...I mean especially if he couldn't even find Patty's old man or heck even some tracks on a second trip given that Patterson almost always found something when he went out. Now I see why he never went back,it would have been lose lose.

You don't seem to get it, do you?

How much time have you spent in the woods?

What do you think your chances are of, say, "catching" a bear?

Divide those chances by 200 (that's a guess; it might be 100, and it might be 1,000).

There are your chances of one encounter.

Double it for two.

Do the math, genius....................

 

[RayG]

While analogies are important in pointing out similarities, it must be remembered that bears, flying squirrels, moose, elk, deer, etc. etc. have all been proven to exist. Bigfoot on the other hands, still shares top shelf space with unicorns, dragons, loch ness monsters, and other assorted unproven beasties.

RayG

 

[cloudshipsrule]

I haven't seen a flying squirrel carcass since, have never seen a live specimen, probably never will, and will bet that none of you ever have/will

I live in an area of the US where there are no flying squirels. I used to visit my uncle every summer when I was a kid. He was the caretaker of a damn in Ohio, and there were flying squirels on his property. I fed them by hand every summer.



One individual makes a cast of a supposed bigfoot footprint somewhere in the US. Another individual takes a cast of a different supposed bigoot footprint from somewhere else in the US. The two separate castings don't match up. This is typically the case, isn't it? So do footers believe there are actually separate species of bigfeet in the US? Doesn't that make it even more difficult to believe in ANY bigfoot at all with a little critical thinking?

Type in 'bigfoot cast' using google images and look at all the different footprint casts out there. Some have 5 toes, some have 4 toes, some have 3 toes, all of them seem be very different from one another. Shouldn't there be some consistency? If you made casts of 10 different human footprints from different people they might all be different sizes, but apart from some deformity they would all look essentially the same, right?

 

[Spektator]

(snip)
I haven't seen a flying squirrel carcass since, have never seen a live specimen, probably never will, and will bet that none of you ever have/will.
(snip)

Anecdotes don't prove anything, but I saw two live flying squirrels a couple of nights ago as I turned into my driveway late, and a couple of weeks ago I found a dead one that some cat or other predator had killed.

And I'm not even a hunter.

 

[Thitical Crinker]

My cousin had a pet flying squirrel when I was growing up. Damn thing would sit on top of the drapes and "fly" into your hair when you walked in the living room.
I never knew anyone who had a pet bigfoot.

p.s. of course his name was Rocky.

 

[Huntster]

...So do footers believe there are actually separate species of bigfeet in the US?

Some do. I rather doubt it.

Doesn't that make it even more difficult to believe in ANY bigfoot at all with a little critical thinking?

Not really.

What, because there are hoaxers out there, that means that there cannot be such a thing as a sasquatch?

Is that "critical thinking"?

 

[Huntster]

Anecdotes don't prove anything

Correct.

but I saw two live flying squirrels a couple of nights ago as I turned into my driveway late, and a couple of weeks ago I found a dead one that some cat or other predator had killed.

And I'm not even a hunter.

I'm a hunter, but I don't hunt flying squirrels.

I don't hunt sasquatches, either.

I wonder if the population of flying squirrels is denser where you live. Very, very few people see them here.

 

[Huntster]

....I never knew anyone who had a pet bigfoot......

I've only known one person with a bigfoot pet/buddy.

See my signature lines below.............

 

[kitakaze]

When people bring up things like three-toed tracks I get the knee-jerk urge to give someone a three-toed kick in the ass but then I hesitate while I think about if I'm having filtration issues. Either way, the opportunity's long gone before I make up my mind.

 

[UrsulaV]

I haven't seen a flying squirrel carcass since, have never seen a live specimen, probably never will, and will bet that none of you ever have/will.

I'll take that bet. How much are you betting? There was a Southern Flying Squirrel in the nocturnal animal exhibit at the "Minnesota Trail" the last time I visited the Minnesota zoo awhile back. It was alive, and had eyes like an anime heroine. They did not have a Bigfoot exhibit, but hey, maybe it was closed for repairs.

The flying squirrel is common down here where I live now, and there's advice for people who want to attract them to feeders. (Haven't done it myself yet, but would like to.) The birdfeeder-supply store I go to has flying squirrel feeder mix and even a camera set-up you can buy to watch the feeder. (Too spendy for me, but a neat idea!) They're actually supposed to be fairly docile--you can get quite close to the feeder while they're on it before they...err...scamper? glide? off.

I grant you, it's possible there's a "Bigfoot Feeder Mix" they offer that will attract sasquatch to the feeders, but I haven't found it yet.

Your analogy would hold up beautifully if there weren't hundreds of flying squirrels in zoos, museum mounts, excellent video footage--perhaps it was a Very Very Tiny Man In A Suit?--etc, etc. None of which we have for Bigfoot.

If I wanted to see a flying squirrel, there are places I could go and be absolutely guaranteed, 100%, of seeing a squirrel, alive or dead. There are ways that I could attract them quite reliably from the wild, although of course, it's always a bit hit or miss with wild animals. I could, quite easily, lay hands on excellent video footage of flying squirrels that no one suspects of having been hoaxed.

It's a nice attempt at an analogy, but flounders on all the specimens of flying squirrels we have.

 

[Spektator]

....
The flying squirrel is common down here where I live now, and there's advice for people who want to attract them to feeders. (Haven't done it myself yet, but would like to.) The birdfeeder-supply store I go to has flying squirrel feeder mix and even a camera set-up you can buy to watch the feeder. (Too spendy for me, but a neat idea!) They're actually supposed to be fairly docile--you can get quite close to the feeder while they're on it before they...err...scamper? glide? off. ......

That was how I spotted the two I saw--they were perched on the bird feeder next to our driveway. How do I know they were flying squirrels? They both glided from the feeder to the tree on the other side of our driveway, passing right through the glare from my car's headlights.