Bigfoot - The Patterson-Gimlin Film

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...If there is a creature such as you describe wandering around in the woods, why is there so little evidence for it?

(And this is where we start around again. Playing straw man [I admit] -- Woo: But there is. Skeptic: Where? Woo: Lots of it, tons of evidence. Skeptic: Okay, what's the best piece of evidence? Woo: The P/G film...)

(Wrong merry-go-round)

My answer:

Because they are such rare creatures, and primarily inhabit the most remote areas.

(And this is the proper merry-go-round: Denialist: "If they are so rare, how come people see them?" Believer: "Because even a few people enter their area, and they occasionally range out into more human habitated areas" Denialist: "But if they are so rare, how come there are 'thousands' of reports; you can't have it both ways".................... Etc, Etc, Ad nauseum)
 
What reports describe a creature that does not resemble the thing in the Patterson film, and what percentage of total reports do such descriptions represent?

I listed a few of them here and that was just a quick search done online, no telling what I might come up with if I spent a few hours pouring over sighting reports.

What percentage of total reports do they represent? I have no idea, but I haven't done any indepth investigation into it either.

If you've read Coleman you know he's catalogued 12 types of bigfoot in North America alone, so I'm not imagining things. Each of the 12 types have their own identifying characteristics and all are based on actual reports, encounters, and sightings of eyewitnesses.

Do you believe there are 12 variations of bigfoot roaming North America?

RayG
 
Hi, I'm rather new to this forum, but I've been reading over many of the posts. This topic has certainly received thorough discussion. I've lived in Washington State for several years so of course had heard of the Wallace hoax confession a couple of years back, but didn't know much otherwise about bigfoot theories.

When I started reading this thread, I thought that the Patterson bigfoot video looked pretty good to me. And bigfoot is a very appealing idea. Alas, based on the circumstances of the film, the repurations of Patterson, the reported confessions of fraud, etc, I have concluded that "Patty" is very likely a man in a costume.

But my personal opinion isn't important. What's more important is this: The Patterson Film is not reliable evidence of bigfoot and it never will be. It seems that even most of the bigfoot advocates on this forum agree that "Patty" could be a man in a suit. So why not just agree to disagree, agree that the PG film cannot be validated, and move on.

If bigfoot is out there, someone (probably a hunter or fish and game officer) will eventually bring in some bones or fur. And that would be very cool, but while we wait and hope for such a find, let's not be distracted by trickery.

Excuse my inartful phrasing, and I hope I don't offend anyone, but that's my two-cents worth.

Rachel
 
People people people.

You have it all wrong.

In the beginning of the Star Wars movies it says "A long time ago..."

It's obvious Chewbacca is hiding from the empire. Let the wookie have some peace.
 
People people people.

You have it all wrong.

In the beginning of the Star Wars movies it says "A long time ago..."

It's obvious Chewbacca is hiding from the empire. Let the wookie have some peace.
Just don't challenge a bigfoot to a chess match.
 
... Despite the fact that you can see better costumes than "Patty" in episodes of Gilligan's Island and the Beverly Hillbillies.....


Your words there, Hitch.

Now comes the obvious:

Evidence, please?

Oh yes. The evidence for this claim runs on various channels available on your local cable televison or satellite provider. tv.yahoo.com should help you find them.

Weak.

Very, very weak.
 
I listed a few of them here and that was just a quick search done online, no telling what I might come up with if I spent a few hours pouring over sighting reports....

Those all look to me to be the same creature, Ray. They're all hairy (not scaly or feathery), all bipedal, etc.

The differences is primarily bulk, fur color, height, etc. Those are no different than the differences in bears from, say, New Jersey and Oregon.

...If you've read Coleman you know he's catalogued 12 types of bigfoot in North America alone, so I'm not imagining things....

I haven't bothered reading Coleman.

... Each of the 12 types have their own identifying characteristics and all are based on actual reports, encounters, and sightings of eyewitnesses.

Do you believe there are 12 variations of bigfoot roaming North America?...

Variations? I do't know. I agree that there are color differences, and there may be regional size differences.

Different species?

I doubt it.
 
Those all look to me to be the same creature, Ray. They're all hairy (not scaly or feathery), all bipedal, etc.

No scales or feathers required, these hairy bipedals have been given different descriptions by witnesses. In many cases their tracks look nothing alike.

The differences is primarily bulk, fur color, height, etc. Those are no different than the differences in bears from, say, New Jersey and Oregon.

Do bears generally have the same number of toes, regardless of their location? Do some bears have four toes, others five, while still others three? When individual bears leave tracks, are they similar to other individual bear tracks of the same species? Why such a physical difference in track appearance?

Coleman describes some distinct variations in his book, including 'Napes' -- long, swinging arms, humanlike ears, hog-like eyes, and a footprint complete with an opposed big toe. (page 56)

The 'Nuk-luk' is described as a, "rather small, dark, upright, hominid creature covered with black hair on its head, upper body, and legs. It had a black head, slightly pointed at the back, and a light brown face with a small black nose. Though it, too, had a very long, brown beard that went down to its waist, the creature wore some kind of ankle-high boots and a piece of moose skin around its waist, and it carried a stone club." (page 52)

The 12' Pitt Lake Giant (British Columbia) has only 4 toes, its arms reached below the knees, and its yellow hands were the shape and size of canoe paddles. (page 44)

I haven't bothered reading Coleman.

You really should, it's quite the eye-opener.

Variations? I do't know. I agree that there are color differences, and there may be regional size differences.

Read Coleman. ;)

Different species?

That's a heck of a lot of undiscovered species running around North American woods.

RayG
 
...Do bears generally have the same number of toes, regardless of their location?...

Yes, but all their toes may not appear in a footprint, and they have been known to loose toes in fights with other bears.

...Do some bears have four toes, others five, while still others three? When individual bears leave tracks, are they similar to other individual bear tracks of the same species? Why such a physical difference in track appearance?....

For example, one set of oddball "three-toed" tracks debated on BFF were described by one participant as alligator prints, and his argument sounded pretty good when looking at the photos of the prints.

Some of the four-toed tracks could be like the Bossberg prints, where there were foot injuries.

Some of the odd-ball prints could be hoaxes.

Some of the odd-ball prints could be poor prints interpreted poorly.

Could be lots of explanations.

...Coleman describes some distinct variations in his book, including 'Napes' -- long, swinging arms, humanlike ears, hog-like eyes, and a footprint complete with an opposed big toe. (page 56)....

Why couldn't a footprint with an opposed big toe be the escaped ape the skeptics try to paint all of sasquatchery with?

Napes? How many sightings of a creature like that? Are they continent wide? Shall we dismiss all of sasquatchery because a couple of oddball reports are submitted in Moonshine County?

If I (an admitted sasquatch believer) can admit that perhaps 75% or more of all sighting reports are hoaxes or misidentifications, can we throw the oddball reports in with the 75%, or must we haggle over them, too?

Do they total 2% of all reports?

If so, I'll surrender another 2% of all reports, and say that 77% or more are false.

Fair?

...The 'Nuk-luk' is described as a, "rather small, dark, upright, hominid creature covered with black hair on its head, upper body, and legs. It had a black head, slightly pointed at the back, and a light brown face with a small black nose. Though it, too, had a very long, brown beard that went down to its waist, the creature wore some kind of ankle-high boots and a piece of moose skin around its waist, and it carried a stone club." (page 52)...

I wouldn't call that description a "sasquatch".

Let's call it a "gnome", and start another thread.

...The 12' Pitt Lake Giant (British Columbia) has only 4 toes, its arms reached below the knees, and its yellow hands were the shape and size of canoe paddles. (page 44)...

That description in no way resembles the description of the estimated 12' sasquatch reportedly seen by two men near Pitt Lake, BC, in the Green database. Where Coleman got that I have no idea.

And that's why I'm not interested in his book.

My understanding is that he is a "cryptozoologist".

I prefer a specialist; one who is focused on sasquatchery, and not other "mysteries".

Many on this board are intolerant of anything that doesn't present itself on a stainless steel table in front of them. I'm a bit more forgiving. I accept sasquatch because I have seen tracks myself that I believe were left by such a creature, and have learned that lots of other such evidence has been found.

I retain the judgement and right to discard or set aside claims which don't fit the model and pattern as hoaxes or misidentifications just as some here discard the whole kit and kaboodle.
 
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Why couldn't a footprint with an opposed big toe be the escaped ape the skeptics try to paint all of sasquatchery with?

Now, Huntster, we've already had this talk about sweeping generalizations how many times now?

A great many skeptics in this thread have never even suggested that an escaped ape may account for a single sighting, let alone "all of sasquatchery." Do you have any names of "the skeptics" so that we may examine this claim you're making, or is this just another Huntster Assumption(tm)?
 
I cant see any toes?

frame72.jpg


Nope, you sure can't.
Unless you back up a few frames, whereupon perfect little toes on a perfect little foot magically appear. :)

017.jpg
 
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Soarwing posted this over at BFF. I looked at this sequence of frames and ran them back and forth and Patty's heel does indeed appear to move relative to her leg. I see it in the MK Davis animated gif as well.

post-35-1136296825.jpg
 
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The definition of “woo”:
1. To seek the affection of with intent to romance.
2.
a. To seek to achieve; try to gain.
b. To tempt or invite.
3. To entreat, solicit, or importune.

v. intr.
To court a woman.

Guess what?
You are wrong. Here's the propper meaning of the word "woo" within the current context:
http://www.skepticwiki.org/wiki/index.php/Woo-woo
Woo-woo (or sometimes, simply woo) is used within parts of the skeptical community in referring to

extraordinary beliefs for which it is felt there is insufficient extraordinary evidence, and
people who hold those beliefs.

Your “hope” is yours to enjoy and “woo”.
In other words, you have nothing but the same old frail evidence.

That is completely incorrect. I read Nelson’s account of what he was taught, I reflected on his words, I appreciated the fact that these aboriginal people recognized the fact that these creatures exist, I spat at the thought that western science is to busy playing ideological games ...pseudonihilistic rant snipped...

So, once again, you have not managed to answer a question.

Are these nuts and bolts (werewolves) thrown into the gears intended to merge the common aspects of aboriginal legends with European legends, or to discredit any one thing?

The comment was clearly understood by at least another poster. The reasoning is quite simple: Myths about hairy men living in the woods are common. Thus, they are not exactly a strong pro-bigfoot evidence. Whoever thinks the opposite should try to learn more about mythology.
 
The comment was clearly understood by at least another poster. The reasoning is quite simple: Myths about hairy men living in the woods are common. Thus, they are not exactly a strong pro-bigfoot evidence. Whoever thinks the opposite should try to learn more about mythology.

Now, now, Correa, you know you're only allowed to mention native myths that can be construed as supporting Bigfoot! Any attempt to point out myths that are obviously just random mythic constructions with no cryptozoological basis is trying to degrade the Bigfoot evidence and trivialize mythology. Comparing myths used in support of Bigfoot to other hairy man myths that Footers don't believe in is also degrading and inconvenient.

Mythology belongs ONLY to Footers! No skeptics get to use it!
 
Wait!!!

That's It!!!

Ursula, you're BRILLIANT!!!

Don't you see? It expalins everything, why you can't find them yet they're still seen by people, why track paths seem to dissappear, even the human footprints near bigfoot tracks, and even the non-bigfoot hair and trace...


My God...we've made a breakthrough..

There is no Bigfoot.

There are no werwolves.

They're WERE-FEET!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

I must hurry and write my paper for submission to Nature.

Huntsman runs off, cackling madly, crayon scribbling furiously on the back of an empty Burger King bag.
 
They're WERE-FEET!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

Now I'm just seein' a horde of disembodied feet, pointing their ankles at the full moon and howling.

It's not a compliant gait! It's a mated pair of were-feet, (were-feet are of course monogamous and mate for life) bounding along and leaving midtarsal breaks wherever they land.

The Skookum Cast was formed by the much rarer and more solitary Were-Butt, a noble creature hunted nearly to extinction for toilet-seat cozies.
 
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