Bigfoot: The Invisible Variety

[historian]

Married2awooster,
You buy a round trip plane ticket, and I will meet you at the airport, where you can examine it with a magnifying glass. If you want to examine any old orb photo, you can step outside and take flash digital camera pictures over your roof top, with the ISO tweaked to above 400. It works better in the summer time. If you don't have any spirits flying over your house, try the neighbors house. Or just start walking down the street and take a picture of everyones roof top at night. Locknar claims he saw something suspicious in my photo. If he was not lieing, then you should be able to see exactly what he saw. Of course it is impossible for anybody to find what Locknar was referring to, because there was nothing to his false allegations and attempted fraud. The photo was a captured still out of a fast moving sony camcorder video, with night vision plugged into the end. So the photo is not an isolated still. It has supporting evidence that cannot be faked to my knowledge. I realize that there are a bunch of professional skeptics that have a hidden agenda in discrediting the picture before it becomes famous, with the standard false allegations, aka fraud. So I would guess that it is probably going to cost you at least $700 to see the still, and I will let you see the camcorder video as well. But you get no copies, nor do you get to borrow anything. Have a nice day.

 

[YouBelieveWHAT?]

Historian,

There are many of us who don't have the opportunity to follow your advice - I, for example live in Germany.

So - we're in need of something other than anecdotes to be able to understand the phenomena that you're describing.

But - what have we had? Have we had a well-reasoned, coolly presented exposition of Invisible Bigfoot? No - we've had a series of shrill - and getting shriller - posts that really don't answer any of the questions, make wild accusations, and are close to being ad-hom statements. Not a single piece of evidence to be discussed.

You see - this is a forum that delights in discussion - and these are almost always held in polite, good humour. It takes a lot of hard work for a poster to generate bad feeling here.

But, Historian, you seem to have done it in spades. You seem to think that "It's true because I say so" is enough to convince everybody.

However - the watchword here is "evidence"!

If you really want to hold discussions here, you need to moderate your attitude, and come up with some real evidence.

Otherwise - you're just being a very annoying troll.

 

[Cuddles]

This is very confusing.....

Here we have a physicist saying that Historian is wrong.

However, we have Historian saying that physicists are LIARS!

OK - so I know who I believe - one of you sounds justs like that saying about the Bible - it must be true because the Bible says it is

PS - a subtle hint - it's not Historian - but I guess you already knew that

Historian is entirely correct, everything I say is a lie, including this sentence.

Cower in fear of my awesome paradox, puny mortals. Mwahahahahaha.

 

[Locknar]

Historian - Any closer to providing cites/references that support your various claims?

You don’t find it odd, for example, that as prevalent the “BF” and “inter-dimensional being” discussions were in the 70’s (as you claim) there is no documented material you can cite to support your claim? You don’t find it odd that only you seem to recall these various events…from Carter’s press conference, to Hawking ranting on the U.C. Berkley sidewalks, etc.?

Sadly, I suspect you don’t find it odd at all; more is the pitty.

In the end, with a total lack of supporting documentation/cites, your claims can be totally discounted as irrelevant.

 

[madurobob]

Steven Hawking was unaccounted during the weekdays, at his claimed location of study at Caltech, during the fall term of 1974. He was witnessed by myself, my friends, my professors and was written about in the school newspaper, as being present at U.C. Berkeley during the fall term of 1974. He was rumored to be at Berkeley studying bigfoot.

Ummmm.. Histo?

There was a bit of rancor earlier in this thread about your claims regarding Hawking. That initial claim was that he was at Berkeley regularly and everyone knew he was studying bigfoot because he would roam the sidewalks at the school and preach the Gospel of Bigfoot to any who would listen. That has now morphed into Hawking only being seen at Berkely and a rumour of bigfoot study.

Why the change in the story? Was the initial version just too difficult to support with evidence?

 

[historian]

Youbelievewhat, Your statement is complete bunk from start to finish. Your fellow skeptics have a well polished routine of attacking people who present alternate viewpoints on controversial subjects. If evidence was as easy to obtain as you imply that it must be, then the subject would not even be controversial. The day in and day out attacks by your fellow skeptics, are best answered with directions in where to obtain the evidence for themselves. Which I have done. It is not my fault that you THINK that you cannot obtain it in Germany. It appears that you have not even tried, yet you are assuming that it is not possible. I spoke to someone in Switzerland, and he seems to indicate that it is quite possible. Directions on where to conveniently obtain evidence, are not anecdotes. You can write that down and/or memorize it for future reference.
I completely disagree with you on what this forum delights in. It delights in taking on the role of "pack hunting predators". Locknar and Kitakaze are two of the most obvious. Even your post is an attack on me. Drag yourself away from your computer and do your own leg work to find your own evidence, exactly how I suggested that you find it. I am not going to hand anything over to the undeserving, armchair predators/skeptics on this board or any other board. And if someone here wants a copy of the TOP SECRET LLNL Bigfoot captivity study, why don't you just march into the main office of either the FBI, the CIA, the NSA or even better yet, the Pentagon, and demand it in no uncertain terms. I am sure that one of those agencies must be convenient to your location. Phone ahead so that they know that you are coming, and they may have a little room waiting for you, complete with a fresh pot of hot coffee. And the report of course.

 

[bruto]

We should point out that there is some documentation regarding historian's claims: to wit, a written denial by Jimmy Carter of his allegations. Historian's response is that Carter lied. Historian is sensitive about what he sees as dishonesty and undue criticism here, but that's a lot of chutzpah.

 

[historian]

Summary on where to find EVIDENCE
1. Top Secret Lawrence Livermore National Lab Bigfoot Captivity Study
Main office of FBI, CIA, NSA or the DOD at the Pentagon (Call ahead first and they will have a signed copy waiting for you at the front desk)
2. Steven Hawking studied Bigfoot and at Berkeley for fall term 1975
Fly to Berkeley and go through newspaper archives for The Daily Californian
3. Philadelphia Experiment
All over Youtube (or google Philadelphia Experiment, Montalk, Tesla Coil, Faraday Cage)
4. Former President Carter in contact with Bigfoot
The book, The Psychic Sasquatch by Lapseritis
5. Bigfoot can be invisible and thus paranormal
The Locals by Thom Powell
The Psychic Sasquatch by Lapseritis
Story in the Snow by Lunetta Woods
Valley of the Skookum by Sali Sheppard-Wolford
Boggy Creek DVD
Any Indian Reservation in the U.S.
6. Technical Aspects of Natural Invisibility through Dimension Changes
X3, by Adrian Dvir
7. Photographing Orbs
How to Photograph the Paranormal by Leonore Sweet
8. BFRO being in Southern California and thus near Hollywood
www.bfro.net
U.S. map of contiguous States
Atlas
9. Bigfoot transformation in an Orb
Track Record #153
The Psychic Sasquatch by Lapseritis
10. Little People Invisibility
Little People by Ron Quinn
11. Skeptics in total denial of everything in regard to Bigfoot
See above posts, and all hereafter.

 

[Tirdun]

If you want to examine any old orb photo, you can step outside and take flash digital camera pictures over your roof top, with the ISO tweaked to above 400. It works better in the summer time.

Ah, the perfect "orb" hunting rules.

• Outside (dust, moisture and bugs)
• Night (high flash reflection, active/hard to see bugs, Light noise produces high contrast and autofocus issues)
• Digital (Depth of field versus mechanical cameras, pixel artifacts)
• High ISO (Picture noise, high light sensitivity)
• Roof Top (Bugs, moisture, extended field of focus)
• Summer (No bugs in the winter after all)

Do the same thing with a quality camera designed to be used in low-light situations (SLR or a dSLR) or with a bit of understanding of the camera you're flashing around the neighborhood and annoying the gnats with will yield you much better pictures and fewer reflections.

As for creatures de invisible, so as to maintain some semblance of topicality, I'm curious as to what would happen if you photographed them. I'm certain it would very much depend on =how= they manage to be invisible.

For example, if the light is bending around them, the potential for visual warping exists, especially at the top and bottom of the field and where the light is supposed to return to it's original path. Also, is it the same from all angles? If I was behind an IB, do I see what's in front of it, as with a black hole? If this is true, then IB are either incredibly dense (causing all sorts of issues) or they can affect photons in some fascinating way.

If IB is instead simply transparent (energy being, truly transparent solid, etc) then it is either blind (since it isn't interfering with light to measure it) or its eyes are visible. Maybe orbs are IB's eyes? Perhaps it is winking at you, or only has one. Maybe there are orb pictures with two orbs, which means IB is looking directly at you. Mmmm. They should still be visible to the naked eye, though.

If IB is somehow just peeking into our universe, then there is a constant hole in reality in which something would still be obvious. Plus all that energy moving out of our universe has to be bad for the whole stability of reality idea.

 

[Locknar]

When asked to provide proof of his various claims, Historian posted this:

Summary on where to find EVIDENCE

<snip>

In the end, this "summary" is nothing but a laundry list of non-sense, or otherwise discredited, items...and in some cases simply fiction.

I'll ask again...can you (Historian) back up any of your claims with actual evidence vs a "laundry list" of where we might find it? If not then retract the claims. If you do neither you will have exposed yourself as one that makes false claims/statements.

 

[historian]

Ummmm.. Histo?

There was a bit of rancor earlier in this thread about your claims regarding Hawking. That initial claim was that he was at Berkeley regularly and everyone knew he was studying bigfoot because he would roam the sidewalks at the school and preach the Gospel of Bigfoot to any who would listen. That has now morphed into Hawking only being seen at Berkely and a rumour of bigfoot study.

Why the change in the story? Was the initial version just too difficult to support with evidence?

Look up the word "paraphrase" in the dictionary.

To elaborate on Hawking's role at Berkeley, he was there studying Bigfoot, likely studying the top secret Bigfoot captivity report AND giving impromptu lectures on the sidewalk, from his wheelchair. I recall passing him on the sidewalk on numerous occasions, during the fall term of 1974. Upon further recollection, he seemed to have disappeared after that. Someone mentioned that he was designated as an Associate Professor, but I never saw that in print. U.C. Berkeley alumni meetings, take place nationwide and on a yearly basis. Why don't you stop in a visit?

Regarding someone claiming that Carter denied or claimed that he was never in contact with a bigfoot, there is no proof that that question was ever asked of him, so there was no need for me to comment on his alleged/made up reply. So I made no comment. So the liars are still liars on this board. Nothing ever changes.

 

[Marcus]

I actually find the psychological aspects of this thread more interesting than invisible bigfeet (bigfoots?), which are, after all, complete and utter nonsense.

I agree, that is what makes the thread interesting. It is one thing to know in theory the mental gymnastics a person will go through to mantain a fantasy, another to actually witness it. I would also be interested to hear what historians mental health professionals have to say on the subject, but I doubt that would be forthcoming.

 

[Locknar]

To elaborate on Hawking's role at Berkeley, he was there studying Bigfoot, likely studying the top secret Bigfoot captivity report AND giving impromptu lectures on the sidewalk, from his wheelchair. I recall passing him on the sidewalk on numerous occasions, during the fall term of 1974. Upon further recollection, he seemed to have disappeared after that. Someone mentioned that he was designated as an Associate Professor, but I never saw that in print.

Given your history for lack of documentation/cites to support your your claims, safe to say another false claim.

Regarding someone claiming that Carter denied or claimed that he was never in contact with a bigfoot, there is no proof that that question was ever asked of him, so there was no need for me to comment on his alleged/made up reply. So I made no comment. So the liars are still liars on this board. Nothing ever changes.

Ample proof was provided, that fact you don't accept it (while providing nothing to refute it) is not relevant.

 

[Creekfreak]

If they where so into bigfoot research back then why are they not doing any now ?
http://www.berkeley.edu/ I went to there site and I found nothing related to bigfoot research why is that ?
If so many where envolved in it as you say then there should be some ongoing research happening now .
Meldrum doesent count btw he does his research on his own it is not funded by the school .
I have to agree with lock back up your claims we have seen no evidence no documents ,photos or eye wittness accounts other then your word .
Your honor I move to dismiss this case .

 

[devnull]

I still dont understand why Historian wants *us to do the research*.

Dude, you're making the claim - go through your list, grab some evidence, and present it here. Its not up to me to prove your claims.

 

[Married2aWooster]

Married2awooster,
...(snip).. If you want to examine any old orb photo, you can step outside and take flash digital camera pictures over your roof top, with the ISO tweaked to above 400. It works better in the summer time. If you don't have any spirits flying over your house, try the neighbors house. Or just start walking down the street and take a picture of everyones roof top at night.

Presumably your recipe for obtaining evidence is based on trial and error, and not just a wild guess on your part. If true, then each of the variables you've named should have some credible, rational, logical hypotheses that justifies it's inclusion in your recipe.

Do you follow this? If so then you've surely thought this through completely before spending this much time here making claim after claim, argument after argument. Please explain:

Flash is better than no flash - why?
Roof top is better than other locations, why?
ISO 400 or above, why?
Summer is better then other seasons, why?
Isn't IR a necessary element?

Locknar claims he saw something suspicious in my photo. If he was not lieing, then you should be able to see exactly what he saw.

What I saw in that tiny, low resolution image is a blob of pixelated mush that my 6 year old could reproduce with Lite-Brite pegs. Straight lines where there should be curves, etc. Which is why I asked you to show a larger or higher resolution image.

Of course it is impossible for anybody to find what Locknar was referring to, because there was nothing to his false allegations and attempted fraud. The photo was a captured still out of a fast moving sony camcorder video, with night vision plugged into the end. So the photo is not an isolated still. It has supporting evidence that cannot be faked to my knowledge. I realize that there are a bunch of professional skeptics that have a hidden agenda in discrediting the picture before it becomes famous, with the standard false allegations, aka fraud.

.

I have no hidden agenda, it is exactly as I have stated here. The only evidence of fraud I've seen in this thread is the Mod's edit note above regarding your post.

But you get no copies, nor do you get to borrow anything. Have a nice day.

As I expected, another evasion.

 

[bruto]

Presumably your recipe for obtaining evidence is based on trial and error, and not just a wild guess on your part. If true, then each of the variables you've named should have some credible, rational, logical hypotheses that justifies it's inclusion in your recipe.

Do you follow this? If so then you've surely thought this through completely before spending this much time here making claim after claim, argument after argument. Please explain:

Flash is better than no flash - why?
Roof top is better than other locations, why?
ISO 400 or above, why?
Summer is better then other seasons, why?
Isn't IR a necessary element?


What I saw in that tiny, low resolution image is a blob of pixelated mush that my 6 year old could reproduce with Lite-Brite pegs. Straight lines where there should be curves, etc. Which is why I asked you to show a larger or higher resolution image.


I have no hidden agenda, it is exactly as I have stated here. The only evidence of fraud I've seen in this thread is the Mod's edit note above regarding your post.

As I expected, another evasion.

I don't think IR is necesary for "orbs," but if anybody has ever seen or can find a reference to an orb photo that has definitively been taken without flash (this means to exclude P&S cameras that default to flash without user input), I would certainly like to see it. Where are the orbs of yesteryear? Why, in fifty years of photography, thousands upon thousands of photographs with dozens of cameras, have I never captured an orb until I shot this beauty with my P&S digital?



historian pronounced this a good orb!

It's dust, folks. It really is just dust, folks. Common old dust. Really.

 

[tsig]

The source for my information that the Philadelphia Experiment did in fact occur, is several members of a family whose patriarch currently sits on the Philadelphia Stock Exchange and is the Chairman of an International Corporation. In other words, unimpeachable source, boys and girls.

One trend I noticed here is that, to a man every person who seeks to deny the existence of bigfoot, also seeks to deny the occurrence of the Philadelphia experiment. That coincidence would seem to me, more than chance. The chances of a random group of eight posters on the internet who all have the same beliefs would be 1/4 to the 8 power. Or one chance in 65536. Not even a one percent chance. Now what do these two items have in common? Embarassment? Hard to grasp? Upsetting? Volatile subject matter at The Bermuda Triangle watering hole? Mmmmmmm? Now what could it be?

Could it be they are all operating from the same set of facts?

 

[kitakaze]

Regarding someone claiming that Carter denied or claimed that he was never in contact with a bigfoot, there is no proof that that question was ever asked of him, so there was no need for me to comment on his alleged/made up reply. So I made no comment. So the liars are still liars on this board. Nothing ever changes.

I remember:

(snip)...HIS CARTER NOTE CLAIM IS A LIE

I have censored a name and address for obvious reasons, but this is the header of my letter and the note that Mr. Carter returned to me.

 

[Locknar]

(snip)...HIS CARTER NOTE CLAIM IS A LIE

Other then your personal denial you provided nothing in the way of credible support/documentation to refute Spektator’s note, your claim can only be viewed as a false one…one in a long list of false claims.