Bigfoot - serious, not follies

LAL said:
Uh, Ray, he was on the garage floor, presumably clothed.

Not a true demonstration then.

No, they're comparitively small, and the prints are rather faint. The mud was soft and it looks like it squished up from the weight.

Then where are the deep impressions caused by the butt cheeks? They should be far more evident than the testicle prints.

Has Jud quit yet?

Not to my knowledge. From what I gather, the only new members are those willing to pay to go on an expedition.

RayG
 
LAL said:
"This article is full of inline notes like "(Sprague and Krantz, 43)" but has no references listed at the end for the reader to know what you're talking about. A bibliography is needed, and quickly. — Trilobite (Talk) 21:40, 26 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arguments_against_the_existence_of_Bigfoot" "

Found by clicking where it says to on the banner.

Yeah, I know that, but it doesn't explain why the banner only appears on the arguments against page and not on the arguments for page, as neither has listed references.

Maybe the person who posted the feedback was too lazy to look around, the references can be found here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bigfoot

RayG
 
LAL said:


All paleoanthropology is a fraud because a Russian scientist faked Neandertal skulls.

Nebraska Man.

Piltdown Man.

Archeoraptor.

Ooops! Wrong board.



Is there a core of believers still clinging to a belief in these hoaxes? Still trying to prove they exist ?


Nice try.. No cigar ...

Your continued support for BFRO shows where you're coming from ..
 
018.jpg


Lu, please explain the appearance of the back of the heel in this footprint. A footprint that was made on the fly by Patty on camera.

I have already offered the only possible explanation I could think of.

Do you have one?

How did we get the stepped or layered effect at the back of the heel?

How did the material in the middle not get flattened as the foot rolled over it?
 
LAL writes, among other things, "Marx found the long trackway with Dahinden nearby. "

A guy with a widespread reputation for fraud found a trackway, and what do you know, it had really convincing tracks in it.

And you really wonder why bigfoot research has so little credibility?

The presence of fraud does not disqualify the pursuit of bigfoot, but it ought to disqualify evidence produced by the people known to have committed fraud. Evidence "discovered" by a known hoaxer cannot be assumed to "speak for itself," no matter how compelling it appears.

How widespread or rife fakery is in the bigfoot community is arguable, of course, but you cannot argue that it isn't there, and it's reasonable to guess that given the amount of fraud that has been discovered, a certain amount remains undiscovered. Some people seem to have been doing it for a long time, and it would be surprising if they had not honed their skills by now. As long as bigfoot researchers are willing to apply an "innocent until proved guilty" approach to evidence even from the most suspicious sources, their work will remain marginal and their attempts at science will remain a joke.

The accumulated evidence so far for bigfoot, even after all these years, is insufficient to get mainstream scientists very interested, but the problem is not in the quantity but the quality. Who could find the pony in that pile of ****? But if people like LAL are right that they are out there, the best thing any serious bigfoot researchers could do now would be to discard ALL the current evidence, convincing or not, clean house, and start looking again, accepting nothing but the best forensic techniques for recording evidence, and trusting no-one but themselves. My guess is that if they do this with honesty and healthy skepticism they will find nothing that satisfies the criteria, but if they DO, then they'll have bigfoot in the bag.
 
LAL writes, among other things, "Marx found the long trackway with Dahinden nearby. "

A guy with a widespread reputation for fraud found a trackway, and what do you know, it had really convincing tracks in it.

And you really wonder why bigfoot research has so little credibility?

It's clearly willful ignorance, imo.

No other excuse for it.
 
Correa Neto said:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/4201180.stm

Estimated number of specimens- less than 60, across the whole Asia. And yet, caught by remote cameras in good sharp pictures.

Meanwhile, in North America, something between 1400 and 2000 3-m high apes elude cameras, traps, etc.

Oh, I forgot, the ultrassound stuff, they destroy cameras, etc.

:bs:

That's right, my friend.

They use sophisticated tree knocking morse code to signal other squatches to beware of camera traps. They're wily critters.

Cheetahs also don't have infrared vision. Only squatches and Kryptonians do.

If serious nature photographers want to capture an image of a Bigfoot, they should have thought of better methods. Baiting them with apples, perhaps? Worked before...too bad the BFRO never thought of attempting to get a picture of the squatch that was being baited. They never thought of that.

No, you're going to have to be pretty clever to get Foot on film. They hear us, smell us, and detect us way before we ever get sight of squatch one. Unless you're riding a horse, that is. That don't seem to be able to hear horses clattering down canyons.
 
LAL said:

Something has tampered with cameras at times; I don't know about destroyed.

Must be Foot. I mean...it's not as if anything else is living out in those woods, right?

LAL said:

It's amazing what a team of conservationists and scientists can accomplish just since 2001 with a known species in open terrain, isn't it? Maybe they'd like to help out over here.

Heh...I'm sure they have much better things to do with their time than let Matt Moneymaker lead them out on a Bigfoot goose...uh, I mean round-up.
 
bruto said:
One of the arguments for Bigfoot is the numerous sightings. Here is a little cautionary tale about seeing what you expect to see:

Trained experienced hunter sees a bear and shoots it.

If this had been the PNW, maybe he'd have seen a sasquatch, though fortunately for the berrypickers out there, there's no hunting season on them.

There was a case in Washington where a hunter killed his own son, and then blamed it on him because he had moved without giving the pre-arranged signal. Another shot a dirt bike rider in a red jacket. It was illegal to shoot across a trail, let alone shoot someone on it.

So gorilla suit wearers commonly roam the woods scaring the witnesses huh? They do so at their peril.

Lost plane found in the Cascades....only missing since 1983:

http://www.bigfootforums.com/index.php?showtopic=12630&st=0
 
Thurkon said:
If serious nature photographers want to capture an image of a Bigfoot, they should have thought of better methods. Baiting them with apples, perhaps? Worked before...too bad the BFRO never thought of attempting to get a picture of the squatch that was being baited. They never thought of that.

Oh, c'mon. They had cameras on Ridgetop. They shut down due to excess moisture. Why don't you check the facts before you make erroneous assumptions like that?

http://www.bfro.net/NEWS/pnw_newsletter003/ThermalExpedMain.htm
 
bruto said:
LAL writes, among other things, "Marx found the long trackway with Dahinden nearby. "

A guy with a widespread reputation for fraud found a trackway, and what do you know, it had really convincing tracks in it.

And you really wonder why bigfoot research has so little credibility?

I really wonder why you know so little about this. Marx had done no hoaxing at the time and certainly didn't have a "widespread reputation for fraud". Dahinden was extremely wary of hoaxes and took a few days to consider before he went to Bossburg. He noted a jeep near the trackway and noted the license number and later questioned the occupants. (They'd seen the trackway and said they "got the hell out of there".) He openly disliked Dr. Krantz, or at least his PhD, but never challenged him on the Bossburg tracks. Marx faked films. There's nothing to indicate he faked any tracks.

Tracks like that were seen twenty years earlier and six years later. The condition was consistant with metatarsus adductus.

You've heard of a strawman argument, haven't you?
 
LAL said:
There was a case in Washington where a hunter killed his own son, and then blamed it on him because he had moved without giving the pre-arranged signal. Another shot a dirt bike rider in a red jacket. It was illegal to shoot across a trail, let alone shoot someone on it.

So gorilla suit wearers commonly roam the woods scaring the witnesses huh? They do so at their peril.

Lost plane found in the Cascades....only missing since 1983:

http://www.bigfootforums.com/index.php?showtopic=12630&st=0

I didn't say the woods are full of gorilla suit wearers. The guy in the article wasn't wearing a bear suit. He didn't have to. The hunter saw a bear anyway. If he'd been hoping for a sasquatch I suspect he'd have seen that instead, but the victim would have been luckier in that case since they're not in season.
 
Diogenes said:
Is there a core of believers still clinging to a belief in these hoaxes? Still trying to prove they exist ?


Nice try.. No cigar ...

Your continued support for BFRO shows where you're coming from ..

Support for members of the BFRO and the work they've done does not=support for Matt Moneymaker.

Clinging to belief in what hoaxes? Piltdown Man? These are Creationist arguments. "Evolution didn't happen because....."

You don't see the similarity to sceptical arguments on this board?

I feel right at home.
 
RayG said:
Not a true demonstration then.

Look, I'll ask him to demonstrate on a clip for the BFF board, but I'm not going to ask him to take off his clothes.
Then where are the deep impressions caused by the butt cheeks? They should be far more evident than the testicle prints.
One is. Looks like most of the weight was on the left.
Not to my knowledge. From what I gather, the only new members are those willing to pay to go on an expedition.

RayG

Have you read Coleman's board? It's worth joining just to see the posts on the 4th.
 
Diogenes said:
Right Lu.. They actually have pieces of the plane to prove it..

The point, in case you missed it, was that it wasn't found in dense forest, despite an extensive search in 1983, and continued to be lost until now. A 400' waterfall gets missed by the officials and even local residents, but it's supposed to be easy to get clear shots of an elusive, nocturnal forest-dwelling hominid. You guys crack me up.
 
RayG said:
Yeah, I know that, but it doesn't explain why the banner only appears on the arguments against page and not on the arguments for page, as neither has listed references.

Maybe the person who posted the feedback was too lazy to look around, the references can be found here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bigfoot

RayG

It think he wanted a list with titles and dates of publication. The against list would be relatively short. Other than Daegling and Long who's written books from the sceptical side?
 

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