Merged Bigfoot follies

[The Odd Emperor]

Originally posted by erikbeckjord reply: nobody ever ever said the PG Film established a new species. It does not. No matter what Lu Woo (LAL) says...\ [/i]

OK sir, I know I’m going to get flamed for this but--

This is my write up of your web presentation on the Odd Empire. It pretty much encapsulates what I think of your particular spin on the subject.

**

12-17 WELCOME TO BECKJOR.COM submitted by The Odd Emperor by with thanks to odin of JREF.

"Read the real-life adventures of a real - life "Raiders of the Lost Ark" hero

Really! So; like Indiana Jones you're a low life scumbag who steals artifacts from burial sites so museums can purchase them?

Oh you don’t really mean that Raiders of the Lost Ark hero.

Actually hero’s not the way I would describe the maker of this web page. It’s really full of so much unsubstantiated horse-wallow, I almost can’t begin! How can I explain the giant yeti-head that ‘is’ mount Everest. How about the tribe of bigfoots that look, er – rather like tree stumps? Except for the couple that look like alien heads.

How can anyone explain this?

"He used his MBA skills, Mensa traits, & photographic skills, to go out and go after these mysteries full time, working only to get the next airline ticket, while others decided to raise kids, become middle-managers, watch TV, join Little League, and get early heart attacks."

Yah—rightly righty ‘o! All those people who are--you know, productive, work-a-day types are just wasting their lives while the real hero takes blurry photos of trees and claims they are bigfoots or whatever.

Thanks for clearing that up!

Inducted May 17, 2005

**

 

[Ripley Twenty-Nine]

OK sir, I know I’m going to get flamed for this but--

This is my write up of your web presentation on the Odd Empire. It pretty much encapsulates what I think of your particular spin on the subject.

Oh, don't worry.. The worst 'flame' you will get is something to the effect of "You're not a researcher! You're a child! Have mommy change your dipers!" or some other such witty retort.

 

[The Odd Emperor]

Oh, don't worry.. The worst 'flame' you will get is something to the effect of "You're not a researcher! You're a child! Have mommy change your dipers!" or some other such witty retort.

Oooohhhhhh! TAKE THAT BACK You big bully!

(sniff!)

 

[Skeptical Greg]

.................................

What would be evidence against them?

Uhhhhhhhh.. That would be .... A lack of evidence..


In spite of the cute twist of words that goes like


" Absence of evidence is not evidence of absense .. "


It really is...

 

[Hitch]

Sort of; Carl Sagon’s wife said something about her late husband that seems to make sense to me. “You see,” she said “Carl didn’t want to believe, he wanted to *know.*

I have no desire to *believe* in Bigfoot no matter what the evidence might be. I want them to be written up in the 2010 issue of Mammals of the American North West . I want its picture to be on Time Magazine. I want to be able to browse a web page with crisp-clean photos and films of the dang things fishing or whatever the hell they do. I don’t want to base a belief on some crappy piece of 16mm film that shows some dark shambling thing striding into the sunset. I want facts not beliefs. I want knowledge not beliefs

Does that make sense?

Makes perfect sense to me. Mind if I wait beside you for real evidence to show up?

 

[erikbeckjord]

Makes perfect sense to me. Mind if I wait beside you for real evidence to show up?

Reply from eb: You and the other two posters above, and most on this board, have nothing really to say except to repeat over and over: ":I do not believe"... ho-hum, nothing new.

None of you do much, few of you say much of merit. None of you, or most, do not do anything to verify anomalies nor contribute to science. At least Lu-Woo tries to find the truth. You people are largely boring and hopeless. Do-nothings.

The BF mystery goes on and on, it is worth finding out the basis for it, and that certainly is not hoaxes nor silly misidentifications. I suggest you get off your XXXs and do some research of your own, as at least CSICOP members Bob Sheaffer and Molly Squire did. I offer you the flat of my sword, sirs. Snort!

 

[Cleon]

Reply from eb: You and the other two posters above, and most on this board, have nothing really to say except to repeat over and over: ":I do not believe"... ho-hum, nothing new.

Yes, because you haven't given us any reason to believe. Oddly enough, condescension is not a good enough reason.

 

[The Odd Emperor]

Reply from eb: You and the other two posters above, and most on this board, have nothing really to say except to repeat over and over: ":I do not believe"... ho-hum, nothing new.

None of you do much, few of you say much of merit. None of you, or most, do not do anything to verify anomalies nor contribute to science. At least Lu-Woo tries to find the truth. You people are largely boring and hopeless. Do-nothings.

The BF mystery goes on and on, it is worth finding out the basis for it, and that certainly is not hoaxes nor silly misidentifications. I suggest you get off your XXXs and do some research of your own, as at least CSICOP members Bob Sheaffer and Molly Squire did. I offer you the flat of my sword, sirs. Snort!

That’s funny. Contribute to science? Coming from someone who evidently does not understand science I take that as a complement.

As for doing nothing, verses what you seem to be doing. Nothing is much more efficient. The end results are the same.

As for swords if I understand you correctly, I offer you the edge of my wits sir. Lets see who get blunted first?

 

[The Odd Emperor]

Makes perfect sense to me. Mind if I wait beside you for real evidence to show up?

I hear ya, perhaps we can join LAL for a cuppa? It might be a long wait.

 

[Cleon]

That’s funny. Contribute to science? Coming from someone who evidently does not understand science I take that as a complement.

Or, to quote the indefatigable Inigo Montoya, "You keep using this word. I do not think it means what you think it means."

 

[LAL]

Sort of; Carl Sagon’s wife said something about her late husband that seems to make sense to me. “You see,” she said “Carl didn’t want to believe, he wanted to *know.*

I have no desire to *believe* in Bigfoot no matter what the evidence might be. I want them to be written up in the 2010 issue of Mammals of the American North West . I want its picture to be on Time Magazine. I want to be able to browse a web page with crisp-clean photos and films of the dang things fishing or whatever the hell they do. I don’t want to base a belief on some crappy piece of 16mm film that shows some dark shambling thing striding into the sunset. I want facts not beliefs. I want knowledge not beliefs

Does that make sense?

Yep. I'd like to see that too.
One of the Skamania County commissioners told me a couple of Yakima boys told him one was playing around their nets. Seems they go after fish.

I agree. The only thing that can happen regarding the G/P film is vindication. I don’t think there is much more data that can be wrung out of it. We might have better enhancement games down the road but I don’t think there is any way to remove the “ifs” in your question. Not without a specimen.

That would be good.

I’ve seen things like that. Once again; oral history is not really compelling by itself. Stories of forest wild-men are nearly universal in the lexicon of human lore, along with lots of other stuff.

Well, Homo erectus lived with Gigantopithecus. Do you suppose they told stories (they had Broca's area) about giant apes in their time? Or did they just eat them?

Heh! Don’t go all literal on me now.
I know you two are at loggerheads on several issues. But you both seem to agree on a *belief* of Bigfoot which (to my way of thinking) does not seem to based on compelling evidence.

I don't "believe", I accept based on a great deal of evidence that some consider compelling. I see no resemblence between what that evidence shows and Beckjord's delusions.
Please don't paint me with the same brush; I don't even want to be in the same species with him.

Too many ifs. Are the witnesses reliable? Were measurements taken at the scene? What do we have in the video that provides scale? How can we tell that the figure is standing in a place where the water is four feet deep? Remember you really can’t accurately measure distance/location on a flat presentation without mechanical aids. (for example if a six foot man stood in exactly the same spot, would the water be up to his chest.) But then, how can one tell where the exact spot is?

Check the blog at the beginning of the thread and the links. It would seem there was some immediate investigation and some follow-up. Bobby Clarke is a ferryman. Same route, same spot, matchable on the video and it seems a reenactment was done. I wish I had a really reliable source, but this is the best I can do. My local news did a segment on Ray Wallace, but it doesn't seem to have devoted any time to this at all.
Sharness Henry did a good job of shooting down the hoax-criers by pointing out the footprint was on an anthill.

http://blogcritics.org/archives/2005/05/31/171547.php

 

[The Odd Emperor]

Well, Homo erectus lived with Gigantopithecus. Do you suppose they told stories (they had Broca's area) about giant apes in their time? Or did they just eat them?

Well I’ll call you and raise you on that one. I suspect that a certain amount of cultural motifs (for lack of a better term) are inherited. The forest Wildman, the little people, conviction of underground civilization (a’la Richard Shaver) UFOs etc—all are very common from one society to another. We don’t need to see Bigfoot because we already know he/she’s around. They’ve always been around, at least in the human psyche.

I don't "believe", I accept based on a great deal of evidence that some consider compelling. I see no resemblence between what that evidence shows and Beckjord's delusions.
Please don't paint me with the same brush; I don't even want to be in the same species with him.

It’s not really my intent to paint you or anyone else with *that* brush (gaa!) I was pointing out that some of your statements, sober so they may be seem to come across as testaments of belief and not very objective.

Check the blog at the beginning of the thread and the links. It would seem there was some immediate investigation and some follow-up. Bobby Clarke is a ferryman. Same route, same spot, matchable on the video and it seems a reenactment was done. I wish I had a really reliable source, but this is the best I can do. My local news did a segment on Ray Wallace, but it doesn't seem to have devoted any time to this at all.
Sharness Henry did a good job of shooting down the hoax-criers by pointing out the footprint was on an anthill.

http://blogcritics.org/archives/2005/05/31/171547.php [/B]

Have to wait and see. I’ve only seen a tiny portion of the video and I could not make out what was depicted.

 

[Skeptical Greg]

Check the blog at the beginning of the thread and the links. It would seem there was some immediate investigation and some follow-up. Bobby Clarke is a ferryman. Same route, same spot, matchable on the video and it seems a reenactment was done. I wish I had a really reliable source, but this is the best I can do. My local news did a segment on Ray Wallace, but it doesn't seem to have devoted any time to this at all.
Sharness Henry did a good job of shooting down the hoax-criers by pointing out the footprint was on an anthill.

Whoa! That seals it! No way hoaxers could have faked a foot print on an anthill..


Wait just a sec.. The, footprint?

 

[LAL]

Well I’ll call you and raise you on that one. I suspect that a certain amount of cultural motifs (for lack of a better term) are inherited. The forest Wildman, the little people, conviction of underground civilization (a’la Richard Shaver) UFOs etc—all are very common from one society to another. We don’t need to see Bigfoot because we already know he/she’s around. They’ve always been around, at least in the human psyche.

Homo florensis proves "little people" did exist, at least on Flores. It's possible other small bipedal creatures may have survived at least long enough to be carried on in myth. Bipedal apes may have looked like "little people" to big people.

Seen this?

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=17596

Neandertals overlapped with modern humans for tens of thousands of years and could be the basis of some of the Wildman stories. Remnant populations could have persisted for some time, in Asia, perhaps, after their extinction in Europe 28,000 years ago.

I don't know of any evidence for "racial memories", but stories get passed down to children when they're so little they might as well have inherited them.

It’s not really my intent to paint you or anyone else with *that* brush (gaa!) I was pointing out that some of your statements, sober so they may be seem to come across as testaments of belief and not very objective.

Have to wait and see. I’ve only seen a tiny portion of the video and I could not make out what was depicted.

It's possible I'm not very objective at times; I just think I am. I've accepted these animals as real for so long it doesn't always occur to me there might be some doubt. I find it remarkable not everyone knows they exist!

Most of the debates I've been in on this just deteriorated into name-calling, and I've come to the conclusion many people are resistant to the idea because they have a very incomplete or skewed view on it or because it conflicts with some Fundamentalist belief they have. My chief adversary in real life doesn't accept evolution, so trying to explain there were many bipedal hominid species doesn't get me anywhere with him.

I never really went through a stage of thinking all could be explained in terms of hoaxes because I went from knowing nothing at all to thinking there might be something to this to knowing about an actual sighting with physical evidence practically overnight. Skamania County was anti-tourism at the time. The idea of a possible publicity stunt didn't occur to me. Residents seemed to want it to just go away.

I can kind of relate to the folks at Norway House. Big flap, then life goes on.

Since I've been criticized for quoting Meldrum, how 'bout I let him speak for himself?

http://www.exn.ca/video/?video=exn20050421-bigfoot.asx

 

[LAL]

Whoa! That seals it! No way hoaxers could have faked a foot print on an anthill..


Wait just a sec.. The, footprint?

Did you see the photos? The nay-sayers were claiming the grass was removed, therefore, the tracks were faked. Sharness explained this. There was never grass under one of the prints because it was on an anthill. That's obvious, or was to me once I knew to look for the ant holes.

You didn't actually click on the link? I didn't think it was necessary to supply the context because people could just read it for themselves.

"Comment 31 posted by peter on June 2, 2005 04:50 PM:
i've hunted and tracked game all my life here in australia. the footprints are crap. an animal or bigfoot does not and would not kill all evidence of grass on the print. they simply walk on it like you and me. sure the bf may be heavier but i assume they are soft footed like us and most other animals. horses and cattle are hard hoofed and even they don't disturb the ground like the photos. the "bigfoot track" is such an amaturish hoax that i now disbelieve the whole sighting episode. the footprint is obviously manufactured. perhaps your local native indians have forgotten how to track as they should know it is a prank . local australian aboriginies here would know instantly and then probably lead you on, laughing to themselves all the way. talk about gullible!



Comment 32 posted by Annie on June 2, 2005 05:11 PM:
I`ve asked Sharness, who photographed the foot prints, about the grass. She said that the foot print is on an ant hill, which is why there isn`t any grass. It appears as though sand has been scraped away, but if you look at where the person is standing toe to toe to show the size, you can see that it`s their foot prints beside the BF track.
Sharness also said that there were other tracks in the grass, but this was the best one to photograph. You can see where the ants have started to dig their way back out of the hill."

 

[LAL]

Let's see. If I use cautious statements Diogenes bolds them in what seems to be an attempt to indicate uncertainty, but if I make "absolute" statements, Odd Emperor objects.

Oh.

 

[The Odd Emperor]

I don't know of any evidence for "racial memories", but stories get passed down to children when they're so little they might as well have inherited them.

I don’t think there’s any direct evidence for racial or “species memories.” That’s more of a feeling of mine, it’s not scientific or objective.

It's possible I'm not very objective at times; I just think I am. I've accepted these animals as real for so long it doesn't always occur to me there might be some doubt. I find it remarkable not everyone knows they exist!

I don’t think anyone *knows* they exist. At least no one of any consequence in the scientific community. People should reserve judgment until the facts are in, I do but that’s why I’m the Odd Emperor.

I’m sure many Bigfoot researchers believe the things are animals (as apposed to hoaxes or Mr. B’s weird phantoms.) A biologist or someone like Goodall can say that the issue needs more study but I have problems believing people can reach conclusions based on such weak evidence, even mounds of weak evidence.

Most of the debates I've been in on this just deteriorated into name-calling, and I've come to the conclusion many people are resistant to the idea because they have a very incomplete or skewed view on it or because it conflicts with some Fundamentalist belief they have. My chief adversary in real life doesn't accept evolution, so trying to explain there were many bipedal hominid species doesn't get me anywhere with him.

I hear you. It’s often not possible to have a rational discussion with people regarding things they have a deep emotional attachment. Even my stance which is essentially “wait-wait, don’t jump to conclusions” is thought of as heretical. Most people would rather give up a limb than part with a deep conviction.

I never really went through a stage of thinking all could be explained in terms of hoaxes because I went from knowing nothing at all to thinking there might be something to this to knowing about an actual sighting with physical evidence practically overnight. Skamania County was anti-tourism at the time. The idea of a possible publicity stunt didn't occur to me. Residents seemed to want it to just go away.

You may have had an experience that has convinced you. It’s as unfair for you to think someone else is going to be swayed by your experiences as it would be unfair for me to tell you it was all your imagination.

I really *don’t* think it can all be explained as a hoax, some of it surely but not all.

 

[The Odd Emperor]

Let's see. If I use cautious statements Diogenes bolds them in what seems to be an attempt to indicate uncertainty, but if I make "absolute" statements, Odd Emperor objects.

Oh.

Well, sometimes there’s no pleasing everyone.

…did I say sometimes?

 

[erikbeckjord]

OK sir, I know I’m going to get flamed for this but--

This is my write up of your web presentation on the Odd Empire. It pretty much encapsulates what I think of your particular spin on the subject.

**

12-17 WELCOME TO BECKJOR.COM submitted by The Odd Emperor by with thanks to odin of JREF.

"Read the real-life adventures of a real - life "Raiders of the Lost Ark" hero

Really! So; like Indiana Jones you're a low life scumbag who steals artifacts from burial sites so museums can purchase them?

Oh you don’t really mean that Raiders of the Lost Ark hero.

Actually hero’s not the way I would describe the maker of this web page. It’s really full of so much unsubstantiated horse-wallow, I almost can’t begin! How can I explain the giant yeti-head that ‘is’ mount Everest. How about the tribe of bigfoots that look, er – rather like tree stumps? Except for the couple that look like alien heads.

How can anyone explain this?

"He used his MBA skills, Mensa traits, & photographic skills, to go out and go after these mysteries full time, working only to get the next airline ticket, while others decided to raise kids, become middle-managers, watch TV, join Little League, and get early heart attacks."

Yah—rightly righty ‘o! All those people who are--you know, productive, work-a-day types are just wasting their lives while the real hero takes blurry photos of trees and claims they are bigfoots or whatever.

Thanks for clearing that up!

Inducted May 17, 2005

**

Odd Emperor -- most people lead boring lives, and "productive" means getting money and watching twatching tv, and eating many meals and getting fired before retirement and then more tv, and drinking beer, and then having kids who do the same and then dying. NO BIG DEAL, MOST PEOPLE;S LIVES.... DO NOTHING, ACCOMPLISH NOTHING, ACT AS CONSUMERS AND OCCUPY SPACE.


Life's a bitch, then you die. SO DO SOMETHING INTEReSTING, like me.

 

[erikbeckjord]

GOOGLE SEARCH

ODD EMPEROR - DO A GOOGLE SEARCH ON ME, THEN ON YOU. (HO!)

AND BE PREPARED TO SEE TEN ******** LIE SITES RE ME.

OUT OF 2000 .


THERE ARE LYING SITES RE BUSH AND CLINTON,ALSO...

EXPECT IT.