Moderated Bigfoot- Anybody Seen one?

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So, you were only on the property once.

You state that the owners were often there for the weekends.

In truth, you really don't know how often the property owners were out and about on their land, do you? Rural property requires maintenance just like a home. Fences to repair, fields to mow, downed trees to remove in some cases, and perhaps firewood to cut.

Since you were there only once would you acknowledge it is fair to say you REALLY don't know how much human activity there was on this property?

And how do you know how much the neighboring landowners used their property? Stating you had to drive miles to the nearest grocery is not relevant. Heck, there are still areas in Ky where you have to drive miles to the nearest grocery. But that has nothing to do with how much human activity a piece of property has on it.
 
So, you were only on the property once.

You state that the owners were often there for the weekends.

In truth, you really don't know how often the property owners were out and about on their land, do you? Rural property requires maintenance just like a home. Fences to repair, fields to mow, downed trees to remove in some cases, and perhaps firewood to cut.

Since you were there only once would you acknowledge it is fair to say you REALLY don't know how much human activity there was on this property?

And how do you know how much the neighboring landowners used their property? Stating you had to drive miles to the nearest grocery is not relevant. Heck, there are still areas in Ky where you have to drive miles to the nearest grocery. But that has nothing to do with how much human activity a piece of property has on it.

There were no neighbors. There was neighboring land but no structures such as houses at that time. There may have been hunting cabins, but I am not sure.

Of course I knew how much they used the property. It was owned by my best friends father and his Uncle. I was at their house almost daily. They only lived a few doors down from my parents house. Fences? what fences? Fields to mow? What fields? This was wooded property with a clearing for the cabins.

No, I cannot say for certain how much human activity was on the property. But I can say it was not very much. And most of that activity occurred near the cabins when it was not hunting season.
 
No matter how unlikely, It is very possible that he saw something that lives undetected in a crowded country, defying the laws of nature, yet is very much alive.

No. It is not "very possible". It is a remote possibility, at best.

"Unlikely" and "very possible", by the way, are a contradiction in terms. If it is unlikely, it cannot be very possible.

For a person who claims to not believe in Bigfoot, your arguments continue to slant in favor of the existence of Bigfoot.
 
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I am not delusional. To find a Bigfoot, you would need to get out in the woods and look. But, you find it much easier to sit behind your computer and insult me. Consider yourself ignored.
You think you saw Bigfoot. There is no Bigfoot. You are not delusional unless you insist your illusion was a real Bigfoot; I made a mistake to call it a delusion. What is it when you think you see a creature that does not exist? What did we call mermaids when sailors see them? Wishful thinking?

Insult you while I sit in-front not behind of my fast and very quiet computers I built? I don't have to sit at any of my 11 computers long; I have been typing fast and efficiently for over 40 years. I have known for 57 years there is no Bigfoot and I spent much more time in the woods all over the world hiking, scuba diving, flying, and exploring.

I have been in the woods all over the world looking for Bigfoot and we never saw him because he does not exist.

Ignored because there is no Bigfoot. Humans are susceptible to illusions. At a skeptic forum I would expect people to be skeptical of their own perceptions and susceptibility to illusion. I have been trained in my job to recognize illusions so I will not die. I was trained my senses are not accurate in my profession of flying. If we trust our senses blindly and without understanding in flying we crash; you have to learn your limitations.

Spending more time in the woods will not materialize a creature which does not exist. I love being outdoors and have much more time sleeping, hiking, canoing, fishing, exploring outdoors then I will ever have typing fast on my computers.

I believe you saw Bigfoot; there are no Bigfoot creatures on earth except in our imaginations.
 
You think you saw Bigfoot. There is no Bigfoot. You are not delusional unless you insist your illusion was a real Bigfoot; I made a mistake to call it a delusion. What is it when you think you see a creature that does not exist? What did we call mermaids when sailors see them? Wishful thinking?

Insult you while I sit in-front not behind of my fast and very quiet computers I built? I don't have to sit at any of my 11 computers long; I have been typing fast and efficiently for over 40 years. I have known for 57 years there is no Bigfoot and I spent much more time in the woods all over the world hiking, scuba diving, flying, and exploring.

I have been in the woods all over the world looking for Bigfoot and we never saw him because he does not exist.

Ignored because there is no Bigfoot. Humans are susceptible to illusions. At a skeptic forum I would expect people to be skeptical of their own perceptions and susceptibility to illusion. I have been trained in my job to recognize illusions so I will not die. I was trained my senses are not accurate in my profession of flying. If we trust our senses blindly and without understanding in flying we crash; you have to learn your limitations.

Spending more time in the woods will not materialize a creature which does not exist. I love being outdoors and have much more time sleeping, hiking, canoing, fishing, exploring outdoors then I will ever have typing fast on my computers.


You are being a complete d!ck, Beach. While you do not believe in bigfoot, that is no reason to call someone's experience a delusion or insist that they could not have seen a bigfoot, which is possible, but unlikely. Until evidence surfaces, we are left assuming what he saw was an illusion, but that could change.

I believe you saw Bigfoot; there are no Bigfoot creatures on earth except in our imaginations

So...Unlike other phenomona, such as lake monsters and Ufo's, which have loads of explanations...you stumble upon a phenomona involving answering this baffling question: What on earth can be mistaken for a towering, hairy, giant Hominid from 150 ft away in broad daylight? Instead of escaping the question, why not consider that the possibility of bigfoot remains open. I am 99.9% convinced there is no hairy monster alive, but that .1% I can attribute to Longtabber Pe's 2 sightings, whose conviction in bigfoot remains hanging by a thread...Based on HIS two encounters.
 
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NOTE: My original statements are italicized; WGBH's replies are bolded; my new responses are in standard text.

The burden of proof is on the claimant, and extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

So predictable a statement and a cop out.

It's "predictable" because this is what is required for the scientific method to work. Physical evidence, independent verification, and peer review are necessary before we can accept something as correctly explaining objective reality. Otherwise, anyone could claim anything -- there's a purple-and-green dragon living in my garage!, for example -- and we would all just nod our heads and accept it. I'm sorry, WGBH, but the world cannot work that way.

Skeptical and scientific standards may be inconvenient and troublesome to you, but we need them in order to protect ourselves against outrageous claims. Huxters, shills and snake-oil salesmen of every stripe could simply state a thing -- "Buy this special gun to protect yourself against the bigfoot menace!" -- and we'd line up to purchase what they're selling. I'm not accusing you of selling anything, but others certainly are, and your claims are as founded in the standards of evidence as theirs are. We cannot accept your story at face value.

The contention that no scientists are involved in the search for BF evidence is incorrect. Krantz (dec.) and Meldrum are two that spring most readily to mind; both have written several papers and books on various BF-related topics.

Meldrum rarely does FIELD RESEARCH. Krantz has passed on. Bindernagel is getting up there in age and after having a conversation with him, I think he sees Bigfoot behind every tree. Besides, all of these men are attacked on this forum as being incompetent. Now you want to use them as examples of scientists studying the phenomenon? I am talking about independent wild life biologists and scientists.

I've never said they're incompetent. Not once, nor anything resembling it. You are conflating the opinions of others with my own opinions, then pretending to dismiss my points after you've rejected theirs as derogatory and insulting. So let me be clear: Even if Meldrum and Krantz were/are gifted scientists, dedicated to the scientific method and shining examples of their profession, the fact remains that they haven't turned up any concrete evidence for this animal.

Moving on, given that you're "talking about independent wild life biologists and scientists", is it any wonder that the vast majority of these individuals have little to no interest in pursuing an animal for which no concrete, non-hoaxable evidence exists? Footprints are hoaxable. Anecdotes are hoaxable, possible midsidentifications or hallucinations. The few scant hair samples said to exist are inconclusive and arguable. Film and video is consistently blurry, shaky, inconclusive, hoaxable. All the evidence points to this being a psychological, mythological, folkloric phenomenon, and not a zoological one.

And there is still not a shred of evidence for BF that could not be easily hoaxed or imaginatively invented. This stands in direct opposition to every other species of animal in North America. What accounts for this discrepancy?

What stands for this discrepancy is that we think we know everything and we do not. As proven by the discovery of new species daily.

This "new species every day" argument is spurious and underinformed. The vast majority of new species discovered are plants and invertebrates: spiders, frogs, fish, etc. The new mammals that are occasionally discovered are not "cryptids" for which mysterious reports exist, and for which people have been searching for decades, as is the case with BF.

Generally new mammals are found in remote jungles -- South America, Asia, Africa -- where biologists are only penetrating for the first time in years; in North America, however, there is a vast cadre of botanists, zoologists, bird-watchers, hunters, park rangers, land managers, etc. etc. out combing through every square mile of supposedly uninhabited forest. Those small patches which do elude us are not enough to sustain a breeding population of massive bipeds, which must number in the thousands to fulfill the requirements of genetic viability.

Furthermore, sometimes a new species is an already known and studied animal, but classified as "new" in order to distinguish it from another species in the same genus, previously believed to be the same species. This skews the numbers and makes it seem as though a "new mammal!" has been discovered, when in fact it's an animal we've known about all along, and are only assigning a new taxonomic name to it.

Whether the area under discussion is human-frequented or not, it is studied by biologists, inc. botanists and zoologists, and I expect (though I do not know this for a fact) by archeologists and paleontologists, just as with nearly every other region of the earth. And yet no hair, stool, DNA, bones or fossilized remains attributable to a massive bipedal hominid have been discovered. Again, what accounts for this astonishing lack of concrete evidence?

Ever think that maybe they have seen something and just do not want to come forward with it? If you had a grant to study ferns in the PNW, would you want to ruin that by saying you saw a Bigfoot?

Hogwash. Utter lack of understanding about the scientific community and how it operates. Science thrives on new discoveries. Careers flourish under the aegis of novel ideas and information. Can you imagine the riches that would be attendant to the discoverer of a legendary animal of the order of worldwide fame as bigfoot? The book rights alone would likely secure the lifelong comfort and luxury of that individual. The notion that accredited scientists are not reporting sightings or evidence for the most well-known undiscovered animal in the world because of fear they might be poo-poohed by their university committe is, in a word, incorrect.

No one trained in the scientific method is holding onto information that could change the world because of some imagined anxiety that their funding will evaporate.

I suggest you read up on science, WGBH. Carl Sagan's The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark is a damn good place to begin to develop your critical thinking skills, and to learn a few things about the worldwide scientific community: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Demon-Haunted_World
 
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So...Unlike other phenomona, such as lake monsters and Ufo's, which have loads of explanations...you stumble upon a phenomona involving answering this baffling question: What on earth can be mistaken for a towering, hairy, giant Hominid from 150 ft away in broad daylight? Instead of escaping the question, why not consider that the possibility of bigfoot remains open. I am 99.9% convinced there is no hairy monster alive, but that .1% I can attribute to Longtabber Pe's 2 sightings, whose conviction in bigfoot remains hanging by a thread...Based on HIS two encounters.
Skeptic forum -

Some of the few explanations for seeing Bigfoot: Active imagination. An illusion. Hoax. Drugs. Mushrooms. LSD. Lots of beer. DTs. Insanity. Brain tumors. Bad bread. Too much glue. MEK sniffing. Gasoline sniffing. Eye problems. Plus meditation, medication, brain lesions, electrical activity in the brain, physical exhaustion, schizophrenia, brain injuries, sensory deprivation, sleep deprivation, emotional exhaustion, brain damage, neurochemical activity in the brain, mental illness, epileptic attack, brain disease, hypnotism, lots of whiskey, lots of whiskey and watching a Bigfoot movie (Harry and the Hendersons(1987)).

Any reports from 1987?

If I read your post correctly you are 0.1 percent away from reality on Bigfoot.
 
Skeptic forum -

Some of the few explanations for seeing Bigfoot: Active imagination. An illusion. Hoax. Drugs. Mushrooms. LSD. Lots of beer. DTs. Insanity. Brain tumors. Bad bread. Too much glue. MEK sniffing. Gasoline sniffing. Eye problems. Plus meditation, medication, brain lesions, electrical activity in the brain, physical exhaustion, schizophrenia, brain injuries, sensory deprivation, sleep deprivation, emotional exhaustion, brain damage, neurochemical activity in the brain, mental illness, epileptic attack, brain disease, hypnotism, lots of whiskey, lots of whiskey and watching a Bigfoot movie (Harry and the Hendersons(1987)).

Any reports from 1987?

If I read your post correctly you are 0.1 percent away from reality on Bigfoot.

You like to list ONE explanation into many irreverant ones. It is either

hallucination or a Real animal.

What you listed are all the same things. You just list different names to make it look like there are many explanations. In reality there are not, regardless if it is real or not.

For all of those disorders you listed: Why in the hell would any mentally disabled person be able to not only report, describe, and pin point geographical locations, but how and why would they be outside?
 
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I have heard stories they can move really fast, But I only saw it standing still.


When you are 9 x 6ft and move about in a swamp on two legs, there is a pronounced limit to how fast and stealthy you can be. Particularly when you have a bad habiy of emitting gagging, eye-watering stenches that can be smelt at great distance. An animal like that would have been descended upon by men with guns and dogs long ago. How does a creature that size move about and feed and breed without being described by science. Can you imagine just how much that thing would need to eat? The size of it's droppings? The swathes of branches and leaves that would snag hair from its passing? Once again, bigger than a grizzly bear and on two legs. Think about it.

Did you read the new BFRO report I posted above? The description of the animal is very similar.

Yes I did...

http://www.bfro.net/GDB/show_report.asp?id=6267

...and there are important differences. That report mentions a ten foot height estimate, bloodshot yellow eyes, and long hair on limbs and head, and prominent canine teeth. It was four years after the release of The Legend of Boggy Creek and mentions another encounter a few years before. It is also again an examply of this alleged creature casually approaching into close distance of armed humans.

I wish someone else would tell their story here. I like hearing other encounter stories.

We've had lots of people from Henry May to Neil Burgstahler discuss what they felt were encounters with Bigfoot. Henry from his balcony and later a dirty white one in front of a person's house at the roadside away from any forest cover. Neil mentioned many things of a more colourful nature as I'm sure you can imagine. Needless to say, Henry had a much better time of it. The irony is that it's easier to explain an uncatalogued species that comes among us but can dematerialize to another dimension than the type that you and Henry describe that is a true giant that flaunts itself in front of us when we are armed and when we are in the middle of our own civilization.

It's just waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay out there, man. You see where I'm coming from?
 
Well, the description of the creature does not seem to fit bigfoot too well. I'm not sure why one would think it was a bigfoot. A 9'X5' creature of any sort is going to leave all sorts of signs of it's presence and passing in the woods. It's gonna eat a lot and leave a lot behind it. A lot of stripped branches 9 or 10 feet off the ground would be noticed, too.

If I saw the same creature, "bigfoot" is not what would enter my mind as an explanation. This creature could probably pick Patty up and throw her...

:D

No kidding! This thing could throw a pig, a horse, then Patty and play hackysack with some sheep just for fun. How does an animal that size adapt itself to life in North America and settle itself in the eastern U.S. attaining a size greater than grizzlies without any of the essential adaptions bears have (super noses, claws, teeth) to attaining that size? I mean, the only thing that could compare is a Kodiak and there is a very specific reason they get that big...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=koMuIHiQw40
 
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It's just waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay out there, man. You see where I'm coming from?

Yes, I get it completely. Do the people who are accusing me of things like drug abuse get that this is the reason people do not talk about their encounters?
 
NOTE: My original statements are italicized; WGBH's replies are bolded; my new responses are in standard text.

Generally new mammals are found in remote jungles -- South America, Asia, Africa -- where biologists are only penetrating for the first time in years; in North America, however, there is a vast cadre of botanists, zoologists, bird-watchers, hunters, park rangers, land managers, etc. etc. out combing through every square mile of supposedly uninhabited forest. Those small patches which do elude us are not enough to sustain a breeding population of massive bipeds, which must number in the thousands to fulfill the requirements of genetic viability.

You need to get out in the woods more.


No one trained in the scientific method is holding onto information that could change the world because of some imagined anxiety that their funding will evaporate.

This is only a opinion. You can vouch for the ethics of every person in the scientific community?
 
I cannot speak for anyone else, WGBH, but I'm not accusing you of drug abuse. Hallucination under the conditions you describe (isolation, new environment, fatigue, nausea, and collapse) is a known, documented and studied phenomenon among sane, mentally healthy and non-drug-addicted persons.

There is no stigma to having experienced a hallucination, especially given the especial circumstances of the event. Kitakaze has demonic hallucinations several nights a year, I'm given to understand, and speaks about them openly and freely. No one labels him a "nutcase" or whatever, and if they did I expect he wouldn't care, for the simple reason that it isn't true.

Who else should care, but yourself, if you hallucinated something 27 years ago? You attach a negative connotation to a known human experience. Why not consider the likelihood of this over the rather absurd alternative, and face the facts? You thought you saw something that wasn't really there. End of story.
 
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You need to get out in the woods more. This is only a opinion. You can vouch for the ethics of every person in the scientific community?

1. You don't know me, or how much time I've spent "in the woods". If you must know, I grew up in the country, in the woods of East Texas -- specifically Tomball County, Magnolia, and Conroe. I happen to know a thing or two about them. How this impacts whether new mammalian species are discovered "every day", as you've erroneously contended, is another matter. You need to read a few more scientific papers.

2. What a ridiculous requirement! I need to "vouch for the ethics of every person in the scientific community" in order to persuade you that anyone -- layman, scientist, anyone -- who provides irrefutable evidence of BF would have guaranteed riches? That a biologist or primatologist offering such evidence would have their career made for them in an instant? Ethics don't have anything to do with the point I'm making. Did you even read my post? Meldrum et al. make careers out of bigfootery without any concrete evidence at all. Try to imagine what his career, or anyone's, would be like if they produced a body.

3. I'm beginning to see that your logical faculties are impaired, WGBH, and I do believe I'm done trying to convince you of anything.
 
I cannot speak for anyone else, WGBH, but I'm not accusing you of drug abuse.

Never said it was you.

There is no stigma to having experienced a hallucination, especially given the especial circumstances of the event. Kitakaze has demonic hallucinations several nights a year, I'm given to understand, and speaks about them openly and freely. No one labels him a "nutcase" or whatever, and if they did I expect he wouldn't care, for the simple reason that it isn't true.

OK, but I cannot speak about hallucination because I have not experienced it.

Who else should care, but yourself, if you hallucinated something 27 years ago? You attach a negative connotation to a known human experience. Why not consider the likelihood of this over the rather absurd alternative, and face the facts? You thought you saw something that wasn't really there. End of story.

I am not attaching anything negative to it. It just did not happen that way. I happen to think your theory is absurd. Face what facts? These are only your opinions. I saw what I saw. I really wish it was the end of the story.
 
Kitakaze "saw" a spectral demon tormenting him. Rollerero "saw" a motorcycle that the driver of the vehicle didn't, and wasn't actually there. Learner "saw" a pile of dirt that didn't exist.

People "see" things all the time that aren't there. Somehow you believe you are immune to/above known and studied phenomena of the mind. This despite the fact that isolation, a new environment, fatigue, nausea, and collapse are all known symptoms of hallucination. And that you were fifty yards away but saw things in excruciating detail.

You're kidding yourself.
 
While i still dont believe bigfoot is even real, I do not think you can consider the temperate rainforests of the PNW "human frequented". It is far from it. some areas Upstate NY are not very frequented,

Yeah, who the heck would want to frequent places like this, anyway?:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uAQ9rchinrc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrQcLyJeg8Y&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dx6ev9Le1AQ&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGr8qXnXTW4&feature=related

:rolleyes:

Little mak, it's like you have some amorphous concept of what the PNW is and what occurs here. Look at the way Bigfoot is reported. Listen to what John is talking about. That is a creature that is going to be found. It needs food and is going to love the areas I just posted that have plenty of food and fresh water for them that also happen to be constantly frequented by humans with cameras.

If I were the type of creature that didn't mind stepping in front of armed humans or walking around their habitations, I wouldn't mind coming to a place like this where I could simply bend over and pick up a few thousand of those calories my massive stinking easily-trackable body would need. If I didn't mind the boomsticks that people carried, I certainly wouldn't be to interested in the cell phone or camcorder that takes the images and puts them on teh internets...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-GKJ2KMgRQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ptmMqeSqz7I&feature=related

Tube was right, youtube is killing Bigfoot.
 
1. You don't know me, or how much time I've spent "in the woods". If you must know, I grew up in the country, in the woods of East Texas -- specifically Tomball County, Magnolia, and Conroe. I happen to know a thing or two about them. How this impacts whether new mammalian species are discovered "every day", as you've erroneously contended, is another matter. You need to read a few more scientific papers.

Fair enough, but you don't know me either. Yet you can make assumptions.


2. What a ridiculous requirement! I need to "vouch for the ethics of every person in the scientific community" in order to persuade you that anyone -- layman, scientist, anyone -- who provides irrefutable evidence of BF would have guaranteed riches?

Who said that they were going to have proof? You did not read my post either. I said If someone was out in the woods studying ferns and they witnessed a Bigfoot. Would they risk their grant to talk about it ? Of course if someone found a specimen they would claim it.

3. I'm beginning to see that your logical faculties are impaired, WGBH, and I do believe I'm done trying to convince you of anything.

Why are my logical faculties impaired? Just because I disagree with your opinion? So, that is your opinion of anyone who disagrees with you? Classic.
 
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Yes, I get it completely. Do the people who are accusing me of things like drug abuse get that this is the reason people do not talk about their encounters?

Where was this? Did I miss something? I'm just getting caught up here but I missed where you were accused of drug abuse.
 
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