Moderated Bigfoot- Anybody Seen one?

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We are either telling the truth and wood apes are real or we're lying. If we're telling the truth, we are closer than anyone has admitted being to collecting the type specimen we all want. When that happens, many of you here will have a large crow to eat since you are not true skeptics.

The problem here is that "wood apes" clearly don't exist, especially in the PNW, whether or not anyone thinks you're lying or telling the truth is irrelevant.

I'm also of the opinion that this "crow pie" has passed its sell-by-date....
 
Dudes, seriously. Jodie has clearly stated that she does not think her friend Kathy has lied but that she also does not think Kathy saw any bigfoots. That's a perfectly viable skeptical position to adopt. Why has she posted so often in this thread? Because people were specifically addressing her in their comments. That's the same reason my post count is so high at the BFF. As for folks at the BFF coming here, it's a free country. Bigfooters, like bigfoots, lurk in lots of surprising places and show themselves when they think it prudent.

As for Operation Persistence and similar ventures, they put me in a difficult spot because I've been so vocal about the need for a specimen to describe a new species. I've encouraged people to scour streambeds for bigfoot molars; bigfooters don't care about that because bigfoot remains disappear immediately after death. I've strongly recommended hair catchers and track plates to match DNA to hair and footprints but bigfooters say we skeptics will never accept such as evidence. I've written again and again trail cams, but of course bigfoots are way too smart and ninja-y to ever get caught on one of those. Nope, the 'footers focus on the one thing that they know can feed into a ruse that will create the impression of authenticity, because no hoaxer would dare show up where folks are packin' heat.

So I do worry that some yahoo somewhere will pump a hoaxer - or worse, an innocent bystander - full of lead. It's very difficult to recognize that you're being hoaxed once you truly believe. Anybody who thinks those Oklahoma prairie photos feature a bigfoot is not demonstrating the critical thinking skills necessary to separate fantasy from reality under the emotionally charged events of camping out in an area that you already believe is full of bigfoots.

You could take an avowed skeptic to that location and give him the scare of a lifetime. It sounds genuinely exciting, especially if one or more participants is fully armed. But just because someone screams and their heart pounds when they emerge from the haunted house doesn't mean that the house is really haunted. At the end of the evening, the smoke machine is unplugged, and the actors remove their make-up and go home.
 
Seriously Shrike, It is the Co-dependant trolling that Tom and Jodie are engaging in, not the support of her friend Kathy.
 
So what happens now? In my opinion it's total win for the Bigfooters.

1. As we see now on JREF, the skeptics are painted as the bad people who would trespass and expose the delicate research area. Nothing helps the cult mentality like having another group to demonize.

2. It gives the Bigfooters an out to break off further "research." Much better spin to claim an outside influence interfered than to simply admit they found no substantive evidence.

3. A new crop of "knowers" give themselves Bigfoot Black Belts.

4. Bigfoot Black Belts are worthless in the real world, but function effectively in the Bigfoot subculture to acquire social status, TV appearances, Bigfoot conference speaking gigs, "marketing", and Plaster Casters; AKA Bigfoot groupies.
 
Bipto-
How close to AREA X are the National Forest Service hiking trails? I know there is a network of trails in the area, and am concerned about two things.

1. A possible approach from a forest service road which connects or is close to a trail loop which approaches the Area. This would allow hoaxers to infiltrate the area from a direction not near your locality.
2. A situation in which hikers are at risk from possible stray gunfire.
 
and

If Meldrum encouraged and guided, and this was submitted to Meldrum's Relict Hominoid Inquiry, WTF happened to it? how could it not be published? I mean, "high quality 8×10 photo paper..."

Bigfoot Research, papers go in but they never come out.
 
In Area X, no'one can hear you scream, except for the Bigfeet, because they hear everything, that's why they can move out of the way when you come a'walkin with yer boomstick.
 
So what happens now?

They abandon the site. It's been polluted by the truth. They have been introduced to the Bush Pilot rule: never give away the location to the eye in the sky.

I got a little tip for the Bipto crowd. I live in a cabin in the woods full-time, and have about a hundred million acre back yard. I have two small children, and there's bears & moose about so this is how we sleep out in the woods at night to watch the animals doing their thing in the dark, taken yesterday:

IMG_1610.JPG


That platform is 25 feet in the air, and we have a tent pitched on it. That's where we are staying right now other than the middle of the day. The only problem is keeping the kids from shrieking with laughter when they see animals, or calling back to the owls and other birds. They sing "twinkle twinkle little star" and call out to the moon. When the wind is heavy it really throws us around up there, which is a delight for them.

We never walk the same way in, always changing our route so we don't wear a path to it. We've cleared out the undergrowth, and have a view of about five acres. Five times as much land as the TBRC site. Nobody could throw a rock up at us and get away without being heard or seen. You can actually feel the foot-falls of a big animal tromping along. Your headlamps can shine pretty well at night, not good enough for pictures, but good enough to see animals. It's on a ridge so when the leaves come down you have a commanding view of the entire valley.

We're not wealthy people, quite the opposite. I got about $20 into this thing. The real work was carrying sheets of plywood over half a mile up the ridge and the construction work, which required climbing gear and balls enough to get the first beams secured. You can't spike them to the trees because they sway in the wind, which either splits the beam or breaks the foot-long spikes.

I feel a sense of obligation when I see people lying about being in the woods. Because it's been my nature since I was a little boy so I take misrepresenting it personally. That plot of land is only 210 feet per side, so it is a lie to say the cabins are a couple of hundred yards from each other if we have this property nailed down, and I think we do. That is off by an order of magnitude, calling it 200 yards when it has to be less than 200 feet. The talk about the nearest paved road being 2 hours away is a gigantic lie. So if people are lying about these mathematically verifiable features, then what are we to believe about the mythical animals they are seeing every day for months on end?

They got night vision goggles, trail cams, etc. but what the hoaxers have to do is throw things against the sides of the cabins to get their attention. High tech, but low woodland IQ's.

We have to make our own trails and maintain them because we actually do live on the edge of the wilderness. It's a lot of heavy work. Those guys have trails already put in for them, made by the sweat and backs of others, and roads to drive their passenger cars right up to the cabins, with beds and kitchens and all - and their "expedition" consists of renting a cabin and driving to it. That is not an "expedition". I've done plenty of real ones, and if you are using a car it is not an expedition.

I do feel bad for exposing this site on the one hand because people cherish the visions of themselves as intrepid explorers. But on the other hand lying is something I loathe more than anythng else, and most especially lying about the woods which many of us cherish for its truth.
 
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hey, this is cool; what suspension did you use? more pics plz.
I am a tree house builder from way back. My best one was only about 6 feet off the ground in the back yard but it was 6 x 10 with a shed roof. Suspended between two oaks on 2 x 12's on lag bolts through slots.
 
I live in the area they are claiming to be having these sightings. Well, I live 2 hours away. All by paved roads. There is about 15 minutes of driving once you get off 259, before you get to where this is located, if APB is correct, which I'm pretty sure he is. I consider myself an avid outdoorsman, but I'm nowhere near the level ABP is. Not the same ballpark. Hell, not even the same town. But I do a lot of camping and outdoor activities. There is no place in that area where you're two hours from a paved road. That statement alone tells you what kind of people we're dealing with here. The advent of Google Earth has to be a nightmare for these so called "researchers" that get scared off at the sound of someone throwing pebbles at their cabin. I used to think the TBRC was being hoaxed by these landowners. But more and more I'm believing that they themselves are hoaxing some of their own members. Between this and the Prairie Bigfoot photos it's pretty obvious what we're dealing with here.
 
They abandon the site. It's been polluted by the truth. They have been introduced to the Bush Pilot rule: never give away the location to the eye in the sky.

I got a little tip for the Bipto crowd. I live in a cabin in the woods full-time, and have about a hundred million acre back yard. I have two small children, and there's bears & moose about so this is how we sleep out in the woods at night to watch the animals doing their thing in the dark, taken yesterday:

[qimg]http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-PGrJGfUcnWo/UEaQ6UnKKtI/AAAAAAAAFHE/lrZXiQggsEk/s320/IMG_1610.JPG[/qimg]

That platform is 25 feet in the air, and we have a tent pitched on it. That's where we are staying right now other than the middle of the day. The only problem is keeping the kids from shrieking with laughter when they see animals, or calling back to the owls and other birds. They sing "twinkle twinkle little star" and call out to the moon. When the wind is heavy it really throws us around up there, which is a delight for them.

We never walk the same way in, always changing our route so we don't wear a path to it. We've cleared out the undergrowth, and have a view of about five acres. Five times as much land as the TBRC site. Nobody could throw a rock up at us and get away without being heard or seen. You can actually feel the foot-falls of a big animal tromping along. Your headlamps can shine pretty well at night, not good enough for pictures, but good enough to see animals. It's on a ridge so when the leaves come down you have a commanding view of the entire valley.

We're not wealthy people, quite the opposite. I got about $20 into this thing. The real work was carrying sheets of plywood over half a mile up the ridge and the construction work, which required climbing gear and balls enough to get the first beams secured. You can't spike them to the trees because they sway in the wind, which either splits the beam or breaks the foot-long spikes.

I feel a sense of obligation when I see people lying about being in the woods. Because it's been my nature since I was a little boy so I take misrepresenting it personally. That plot of land is only 210 feet per side, so it is a lie to say the cabins are a couple of hundred yards from each other if we have this property nailed down, and I think we do. That is off by an order of magnitude, calling it 200 yards when it has to be less than 200 feet. The talk about the nearest paved road being 2 hours away is a gigantic lie. So if people are lying about these mathematically verifiable features, then what are we to believe about the mythical animals they are seeing every day for months on end?

They got night vision goggles, trail cams, etc. but what the hoaxers have to do is throw things against the sides of the cabins to get their attention. High tech, but low woodland IQ's.

We have to make our own trails and maintain them because we actually do live on the edge of the wilderness. It's a lot of heavy work. Those guys have trails already put in for them, made by the sweat and backs of others, and roads to drive their passenger cars right up to the cabins, with beds and kitchens and all - and their "expedition" consists of renting a cabin and driving to it. That is not an "expedition". I've done plenty of real ones, and if you are using a car it is not an expedition.

I do feel bad for exposing this site on the one hand because people cherish the visions of themselves as intrepid explorers. But on the other hand lying is something I loathe more than anythng else, and most especially lying about the woods which many of us cherish for its truth.


Where is the like button for this post? Well said sir.
 
Oh geez, thanks guys. Here is the construction sequence on the main beams to a tree fort that has platform beams that can travel as the tree sways:

joistsequence.jpg


This is what it looks like when done:


joists.jpg


Got to run to the river or there's going to be a mutiny around here...
 
I used to think the TBRC was being hoaxed by these landowners. But more and more I'm believing that they themselves are hoaxing some of their own members. Between this and the Prairie Bigfoot photos it's pretty obvious what we're dealing with here.

Or perhaps all members are "in on it"? And THEY hoax the occasional guest? And on their camp outs dream up their next big adventure they will report on the web?

Bipto has made it very clear it's either a hoax (total lie, I think were his words) or the real deal. Bipto was adamant they were NOT the victims of a hoax. Hairy Man can "draw a line in the sand" that these wood apes aren't human.

Why don't we accept Bipto at his word that the TBRC is not being hoaxed? That leaves the TBRC as the hoaxers. Which is what I think is likely.
 
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The only question is who's doing the hoaxing, TBRC or outsiders.

Well, I think there ought to be a third category or maybe a subcategory within "outsiders".

1) TBRC member(s).
2) Other(s) who are not TBRC members but are closely associated with one or more TBRC members.
3) Other(s) who are complete strangers to all of the TBRC members.


The "true outsider" would be #3 whereby they don't know any of the intended hoax victims nor know hardly anything about what is going on with their plans.

If the hoaxer(s) knows that there are loaded guns then that person(s) almost certainly has the utmost confidence that the gunman(s) will not ever fire at them. That kind of confidence is almost certainly going to be granted upon them by the gunman themselves. IOW, the guy with the gun has already told the hoaxer that he will never get shot. Here I'm talking about a hoax that includes a guy in a Bigfoot costume.
 
Tom you are really way out of bounds here, in the first place, I did not bring this topic up, I really had no opinion about Operation Whatever other than when someone stated Kathy was a liar. I don't even remember who it was that said it now, but that was where it started for me. I do not know Bipto personally.

I have no clout, influence, or affiliation with any group that I am aware of. I do maintain friendships with the few that I listed in the other thread.

I have not introduced you to anyone that claims to have seen a bigfoot so you can't possibly be referring to me on that one.

Are there any other accusations or insinuations that you would like to make while I'm still considerate enough to answer?

No.. I just mentioned that the first time I had ever heard of the guy you posted it ? Then he showed up on the thread, that is all. I have always been nice to you and friendly.
 
Last technical note for parnassus or whomever, on ladders to tree platforms -

The best ladder is a spike ladder, because the only thing you are carrying into the woods are the spikes.

My wife can climb easy, in the dark here -

CIMG0125.JPG


So you cut a spruce or pine down. Top and de-limb, mount it in the cut-away area and then pound foot-long spikes in.

100_1285.JPG


Very easy to get on the platform thru the cut-out. A girl can do it in her nightie. Tell me I'm lying.
 
Look at that, clear photographs to go along with your claims!!! Holy cow if the footers would do this we might start believing them!

Also, you're making me want to build one of these tree stands.
 
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