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Moderated Bigfoot- Anybody Seen one?

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Here we see another partially imprinted Wallace Alderfoot stomper track that became a 1963 Al Hodgson trophy cast. Does this man know that he was hoaxed by a Wallace stomper? Or, is he in denial just like Green?


e5911a16.png
 
Back when I was still susceptible to the insanity that there might be a Bigfoot, I just never could give Wallace's claims any value, but looking at it now, it's so obvious what happened and that he really was part of it.

Wallace's claims, the fake feet themselves, the one too many similarities between the numerous prints and the 'fake feet', and the fact these pristine prints never seem to show any kind of actual 'life' to them. Bigfoot is this huge, powerful, 500 pound dynamic entity who's mere stare has been reported to topple trees and make grown men cry, yet so many of his footprints look exactly like what a drunk 170 pound man might create with 'fake feet' he created while woodworking late one night. Ostensibly, there's no motion or emotion depicted in any of those prints. Is that really how Bigfoot would interact with his environment in his journeys? Bigfoot's one known 'connection' to the earth - his feet touching it - seems so subtle and inconsequential, and 'unconnected', that it's almost as if he's not really there. :eek:
 
Cotter, I think that you, yourself, have driven the stake in the idea that a GIANT HAIRY UPRIGHT BEAST can remain unclassified in the U.S..

If three people in your circle of friends have seen a Bigfoot, then the beast should have been found by now. It is really that simple.
...

These seems like a powerful argument that the anecdotal reports of a bigfoot sightings the Cotter wrote about are bogus or that the bigfoot creature that could explain this is supernatural (which seems pretty unlikely to me).
 
Here we see another partially imprinted Wallace Alderfoot stomper track that became a 1963 Al Hodgson trophy cast. Does this man know that he was hoaxed by a Wallace stomper? Or, is he in denial just like Green?


[qimg]http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w310/william_parcher/e5911a16.png[/qimg]

Al Hodgson is in denial, the same as Green. Hodgson, Green, Dahinden, and Byrne were all hoaxed by Wallace making tracks that coincided handily with the Bigfoot Days festival and were always sure to be reported by the Times-Standard. Now we have an admission by the wife of the Times-Standard editor of the time Lawrence "Scoop" Beal (wife's name June) that Beal had been part of the hoaxing all along. It seems that the genesis of the modern Bigfoot myth was a tradition of hoaxing for publicity that increased media attention and tourism to the area.

A repost from the BFF documenting some of the Bluff Creek area hoaxes over throughout the 60's...

kitakaze @ BFF said:
1960 - First year of Willow Creek Bigfoot Days Festival, Peter Byrne is duped by Ray Wallace hoaxing Bigfoot tracks at Bluff Creek...

Byrne%201960.jpg


August 1963 - Third year of Willow Creek Bigfoot Days Festival, Al Hodgson is duped by Ray Wallace hoaxing Bigfoot tracks at Bluff Creek...

1963Original_smaller.jpg


August 1967 - Seventh year of Willow Creek Bigfoot Days Festival, John Green and Rene Dahinden are duped by Ray Wallace hoaxing Bigfoot tracks at Bluff Creek...

Blue+Creek+Mountain+pic.jpg


2011 - LAL, Mulder, and Hunster seriously deny Green and Dahinden were hoaxed.

ETA: I forgot to mention I plan on interviewing members of the Wallace family prior to my doing the Bigfoot Show to discuss the PGF this month.
 
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Here we see another partially imprinted Wallace Alderfoot stomper track that became a 1963 Al Hodgson trophy cast. Does this man know that he was hoaxed by a Wallace stomper? Or, is he in denial just like Green?


e5911a16.png

[FooterMode] The toe next to the big toe, is clearly not a match. The stomper is obviouly a poor attempt to carve a foot that matches the print..[/Footermode]
 
Probably the regulars in this thread are aware of this but this is a link to a Times-Standard article that reports the wife of L.W. “Scoop” Beal stated that her husband was in on the bigfoot hoax. This might have been the source for kitakaze's claim to that effect above.
http://www.times-standard.com/ci_10853838

June Beal told the Times-Standard that she'd been mum on the topic for nearly five decades, even as she watched it spiral out of control. Finally, with Wallace's death, she was willing to share her secret.
”They were in on this hoax,” June Beal said of her husband and Wallace. “It was just a fun thing and the fun got out of hand.”
 
My guess is that she is referring to the consequences which got out of hand.

Old newspaper articles show that Wallace had been accused of hoaxing Bigfoot. Local people knew about it and were pointing fingers at him. His reaction was not to confess or simply deny. Instead he aggressively accused them of slander and threatened lawsuits against them. That's right - accuse Wallace of hoaxing Bigfoot tracks and get yourself sued by him. The papers were carrying the dispute with photos of an angry-looking Wallace making the threats.

I presume that "out of hand" was about this. That her husband knew of and went along with the Wallace hoaxing... but then also allowed Wallace to use its headlines to forcefully silence the accusers.
 
Cotter, I think that you, yourself, have driven the stake in the idea that a GIANT HAIRY UPRIGHT BEAST can remain unclassified in the U.S..

If three people in your circle of friends have seen a Bigfoot, then the beast should have been found by now. It is really that simple.


Re: The Bili Ape
What does the presence of an ape in Africa, have to do with an upright hairy beast from the PNW?

Hi Drew:

I see your point, however, taking into account the thousands of people that I've encountered in my life, the actual % of people claiming to have had an experience vs those that don't is a very miniscule (sp?) number.

One interesting tidbit is that each of these people had spent time in the PNW and this is where the experience occurred. (Power of suggestion? Duped by hoaxers? - hard telling really).

The Bili Ape was brought up to illustrate how long a large undiscoverd primate (sub-species, gigantism, what-have-you) can go undiscovered in areas where there is a population density and known large ape species.

Meaning, this creature was under their noses for decades, lore, reports, encounters were all described by the locals, but no bones or bodies had been found and studied, then suddenly (over 7 years of searching) a group was found.

OK folks, have a good night. TTYL.
 
The Bili Ape was brought up to illustrate how long a large undiscoverd primate (sub-species, gigantism, what-have-you) can go undiscovered in areas where there is a population density and known large ape species.

Meaning, this creature was under their noses for decades, lore, reports, encounters were all described by the locals, but no bones or bodies had been found and studied, then suddenly (over 7 years of searching) a group was found.

My understanding is that as soon as somebody went looking for this "Bili Ape" they got proper evidence. Completely unlike the situation with Bigfoot.

This article was before they were thoroughly identified...


The apes are most likely a group of giant chimpanzees that display gorilla-like behavior.

The detective story began in 1908 when a Belgian army officer returned home with several gorilla skulls from near the town of Bili on the Uele River and gave them to the Belgium's Royal Museum for Central Africa in Tervuren. In 1927 the museum's curator classified the skulls as a new subspecies of gorilla, Gorilla gorilla uellensis.

Intrigued by the subspecies, Colin Groves, now an anthropologist at the Australian National University in Canberra, examined the skulls in 1970 and determined that they were indistinguishable from western gorillas, one of the two known species of gorilla. No further specimens of this gorilla from Bili have since been found.

In 1996, Swiss-born, Kenya-based wildlife photographer and conservationist Karl Ammann embarked on a quest to rediscover the mysterious gorillas.

To date, Ammann has not found the gorilla. But he has collected a wealth of information including skulls, ground nests, hair and fecal samples, footprints, and, most recently, photographs of what appears to be a chimpanzee that behaves like a gorilla.

Scientific analysis of this data is still being conducted. Ammann awaits the results before making an official announcement about the finds.

Can you see the big difference, Cotter?
 
Cotter, if you don't mind my sticking my head in here, I'd like to respond to a few of your questions and guesses, and correct some errors of fact.

.... One interesting tidbit is that each of these people had spent time in the PNW and this is where the experience occurred. (Power of suggestion? Duped by hoaxers? - hard telling really).

Allow me to suggest a few more to jog your imagination:

  • The Red Panda effect (according to which phenomenon, people report seeing a reported intruder species which is not actually present).
  • Regional expectation (related to Red Panda, but the obverse, by which local animals actual or legendary are thought to be present even when they are not).
  • Accidental misidentification (bigfoot "seen" where bears, badgers, wolverines, humans or even trees or clumps of vegetation are present).
  • Hallucination (either drug-induced, or during a waking dream -- both of which are documented human phenomena).
  • Willful fraud (either by the "witness", or by some third party unknown to the witness).
All the above are known, recorded and studied events, effects and phenomena. Bigfoot, to date, is not.

The Bili Ape was brought up to illustrate how long a large undiscoverd primate (sub-species, gigantism, what-have-you) can go undiscovered in areas where there is a population density and known large ape species.

Meaning, this creature was under their noses for decades, lore, reports, encounters were all described by the locals, but no bones or bodies had been found and studied, then suddenly (over 7 years of searching) a group was found.

You're mistaken on a number of points here. First, as Parcher notes upthread, once the animal was known to exist "as soon as somebody went looking for this 'Bili Ape' they got proper evidence".

In fact, Karl Ammann, the Swiss photographer who first found evidence of them, discovered a skull he suspected was distinct from chimps or gorillas. In quick succession in the late 90s, he found motion-cam pics of the animals, a huge heap of un-chimp-like dung, and ground nests similar to that of gorillas (there are no gorillas in the Bili Mts.).

Then, in the early 2000s, Shelly Williams, one of the scientists Ammann recruited to help find the apes, witnessed a group of "Bili" apes which rushed toward her probably intending to kill, then backed down and fled when they saw her face. Her expert, fact-based account of the episode has the ring of zoological veracity -- which bigfoot reports invariably lack.

Next a year-long hunt in 2006 led by Cleve Hicks culminated in a 20-hour observation session and DNA samples which confirmed their classification as Eastern chimpanzees (though some behaviors may be unique or "gorilla-like", and they are likely more inbred than other chimps).

Hicks later approached a group of the apes:

This was the first group of Bili apes to be encountered where the adult males did not flee immediately upon seeing the humans). The apes, including adult males, would surround their human visitors and show curiosity towards them, but would not attack or become threatening.​

Every point along this progression of events has been categorically, thoroughly dissimilar from the history of bigfoot. No skull, no bone, no hair, no dung, no photographs, no nests, no observations, studies or reports of encounters by any person with scientific, zoological credentials.

The Bili Ape is evidence against the existence of bigfoot -- not for it. :cool:

Source, with footnotes and references.
 
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Cotter
How many of your circle of friends have seen a mountain lion, badger, wolverine, red fox, marmot, blue grouse, green sea turtle, humpback whale, triggerfish, sea lion, woodcock, woodchuck, armadillo, or a boar in the wild? Get the idea?
 
The Bili Ape is evidence against the existence of bigfoot -- not for it. :cool:

Coincidentally, a brand new program promoting Bigfoot aired last night on The History Channel. In Part 1 they talk about and show the Bili Ape at 10:50. Note how they strategically misrepresent the true reality of this animal. This is done to cause the naive viewer to believe in Bigfoot, or to reinforce an existing belief.
 
LAL on BFF said:
Toes looking squared off because of shadows doesn't mean the object that made them had square toes. Where are the square-toed casts?

Is this some kind of joke or trick question? Meet Hodgson SquareToes...

1a9f66a7.gif
 
Coincidentally, a brand new program promoting Bigfoot aired last night on The History Channel. In Part 1 they talk about and show the Bili Ape at 10:50. Note how they strategically misrepresent the true reality of this animal. This is done to cause the naive viewer to believe in Bigfoot, or to reinforce an existing belief.

Reprehensible and dishonest of THC to misrepresent the facts to skew skepticism and encourage belief. As GT has noted, it's all in pursuit of the Almighty Advertising Dollar.

History Channel, you should be ashamed of yourself. :mad:
 
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