Biden for President?

[pgwenthold]

I honestly don’t understand this post. I think philosophicaly and politically e sometimes disagree, but your posts are usually smart. This just seems like made up garbage and it confuses me because I think you can do better. Maybe I’m misreading it

There is no way to actually defend Trump at this point, so the only thing left is to assert that everyone else is or would be just as bad. Ask about Trump's lies, and the response is that all politicians lie. Ask about Trump's corrupt business dealings, and the response is that all politicians are corrupt.

It's total false equivalency, but when that is all you have....

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

What high price are we paying for what Trump does every day?
I can see maybe an argument that we're going to pay a high price for a long time, because of Trump's assassination of an Iranian terrorist commander. But that's not really an "every day" event.

Drone strikes probably aren't quite a daily thing, but they're common enough I guess. Are we paying a high price for those? I'm not sure. Anyway, they're something it seems pretty much any president, right or left, would be doing.

Challenging the idea that the mainstream media is competent and trustworthy? The only people paying the high price for that are the mainstream media themselves. And that's pretty much a "lol get rekt; learn to code" situation as far as I'm concerned.

I'm going to start a new thread about lives lost to this virus, it's partially off-topic here since Biden did not mishandle this pandemic. But you need to stop with your 'what high price are we paying'. Just because you aren't paying the price, frankly, it disgusting to read that crap.

The Guardian: A whip-smart neurologist, a social worker who sang Broadway: US health workers who died from Covid-19

We are documenting the lives of every US medical worker who dies helping patients during the pandemic. These are some of the first tragic case ....
Gary Sclar, 66 ...
Occupation: Neurologist
Place of work: Mount Sinai Queens in Queens, New York
Date of death: 12 April 2020 ...

Rose Harrison, 60 ...
Occupation: Nurse
Place of work: Marion Regional nursing home in Hamilton, Alabama
Date of death: 6 April 2020 ...

Monica Echeverri Casarez, 49 ...
Occupation: Surgical technician ...

Kim King-Smith, 53 ...
Occupation: Electrocardiogram technician ...

Marion ‘Curtis’ Hunt, 57
A social worker with panache who helped people struggling with addiction
Occupation: Social worker
Place of work: Cornell Scott-Hill health center and New Reach in New Haven, Connecticut
Date of death: 23 March 2020 ...

Araceli Buendia Ilagan, 63 ...
Occupation: Intensive care unit nurse ....

Leo Dela Cruz, 57...
Occupation: Geriatric psychiatrist
Place of work: Christ hospital and CarePoint health in Jersey City, New Jersey
Date of death: 8 April 2020 ...

J Ronald Verrier, 59 ...
Occupation: Surgeon ...

Vianna Thompson, 52
Thompson texted from the bedroom: ‘Call the ambulance, I can hardly breathe’
Occupation: Nurse
Place of work: VA Sierra Nevada health care system and Northern Nevada medical center in Reno, Nevada
Date of death: 7 April 2020 ...

Leo Dela Cruz, 57...
Occupation: Geriatric psychiatrist...

J Ronald Verrier, 59...
Occupation: Surgeon ...

Vianna Thompson, 52...
Occupation: Nurse...

Alvin Simmons, 54 ...
Occupation: Environmental service assistant ....

Daisy Doronila, 60 ...
Occupation: Nurse ...

Jeff Baumbach, 57 ...
Occupation: Nurse ...

Debbie Accad, 72...
Occupation: Clinical nursing coordinator ...

All of these valuable lives were killed by COVID-19 SARS 2 in the last 2 months. Please open the link and read about them. The article pays tribute to each one, where they worked when they were infected, what kind of people they were before they died, how they worked with COVID patients despite not enough PPE. Read about them please and stop posting crap that Trump's incompetence has only caused nebulous harm.
BTW, an apology would be nice.

 

[LSSBB]

I'm going to start a new thread about lives lost to this virus, it's partially off-topic here since Biden did not mishandle this pandemic. But you need to stop with your 'what high price are we paying'. Just because you aren't paying the price, frankly, it disgusting to read that crap.

The Guardian: A whip-smart neurologist, a social worker who sang Broadway: US health workers who died from Covid-19


All of these valuable lives were killed by COVID-19 SARS 2 in the last 2 months. Please open the link and read about them. The article pays tribute to each one, where they worked when they were infected, what kind of people they were before they died, how they worked with COVID patients despite not enough PPE. Read about them please and stop posting crap that Trump's incompetence has only caused nebulous harm.

Great point. Here are some relevant Biden views, from (note very well) Jan. 29th, excerpt:

The possibility of a pandemic is a challenge Donald Trump is unqualified to handle as president. I remember how Trump sought to stoke fear and stigma during the 2014 Ebola epidemic. He called President Barack Obama a “dope” and “incompetent” and railed against the evidence-based response our administration put in place — which quelled the crisis and saved hundreds of thousands of lives — in favor of reactionary travel bans that would only have made things worse. He advocated abandoning exposed and infected American citizens rather than bringing them home for treatment.

Trump’s demonstrated failures of judgment and his repeated rejection of science make him the worst possible person to lead our country through a global health challenge.

The outbreak of a new coronavirus, which has already infected more than 2,700 people and killed over 80 in China, will get worse before it gets better. Cases have been confirmed in a dozen countries, with at least five in the United States. There will likely be more.

Diseases don't stop at borders or walls

The State Department has scheduled an evacuation flight and advised Americans against traveling to Hubei province, the epicenter of the outbreak, and is evacuating non-essential personnel.


Trump has blithely tweeted that “it will all work out well.” Yet the steps he has taken as president have only weakened our capacity to respond.

Trump has rolled back much of the progress President Obama and I made to strengthen global health security. He proposed draconian cuts to the National Institutes of Health (NIH), the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) and the Agency for International Development — the very agencies we need to fight this outbreak and prevent future ones.

He dismissed the top White House official in charge of global health security and dismantled the entire team. And he has treated with utmost contempt institutions that facilitate international cooperation, thus undermining the global efforts that keep us safe from pandemics and biological attacks.

To be blunt, I am concerned that the Trump administration’s shortsighted policies have left us unprepared for a dangerous epidemic that will come sooner or later.

 

[TokenMac]

That is exactly the question.


I'm saying twenty years from now, the ongoing effects will be far lest drastic than uke2se's apocalyptic fantasies predict. And that when that time comes, uke2se will still be insisting the apocalypse happened.

When I made my comment that started this tangent, you told me to go back and follow the conversation.

I did uke2se never mentioned anything apocalyptic, never even hinted at it. Neither did Delvo who uke2se was replying to.

So if you are worried about "drastic" talk of "the apocalypse" you should stop with the "drastic" talk of "the apocalypse".

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Maybe Benghazi is a better analogy.

If Hillary Clinton (WNBP) were president right now -
- She'd have ignored the warning signs;
- She'd have failed to do basic prep;
- When people started dying, she'd immediately blame it on an obscure YouTube video;
- Then she'd say that by the time it really started going bad, it was too late to mobilize decisively against it;
- And when challenged to justify her policy later: "at this point, what difference does it make?"

For sure she wouldn't have bothered to restock the PPE reserve depleted during Obama's administration.

And in the end, the death toll would still only be around 40k.

This history revisionism. Go back to the Benghazi thread(s) and review what happened because this is more bull ****.

 

[thaiboxerken]

Maybe Benghazi is a better analogy.

If Hillary Clinton (WNBP) were president right now -
- She'd have ignored the warning signs;
- She'd have failed to do basic prep;
- When people started dying, she'd immediately blame it on an obscure YouTube video;
- Then she'd say that by the time it really started going bad, it was too late to mobilize decisively against it;
- And when challenged to justify her policy later: "at this point, what difference does it make?"

For sure she wouldn't have bothered to restock the PPE reserve depleted during Obama's administration.

And in the end, the death toll would still only be around 40k.

The Benghazi CT analogy......

 

[Meadmaker]

In August of 1993 the mother of Joe Biden’s accuser, Tara Reade, called the Larry King show saying her daughter had problems at a prominent senator's office but did not want to go to the press


When you're a prominent US Senator, they let you digitally penetrate 'em in the pussy.

Not good for Joe, that's for sure.

Personally, I would love to see a different Democratic candidate, but I don't know how that could happen, other than backing away and let Bernie have it, and I don't like Bernie either.

 

[Suddenly]

Only 22 more accusations and he’ll qualify for your vote.

I mean, if the Democrats are going to go ahead at this point and be moral relativists about past sexual misconduct....

Can't we just draft Al Franken and run him? It isn't too late, and I think highly likely he's the guy that wins if we run this back under that standard. He's a way better candidate.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

This is a nonsensical comparison for all sorts of reasons. First off, there is no realistic scenario in which we avoid all Covid-related deaths, that was never an option. So whatever you think he did wrong, whatever you think he should have done instead, it could not possibly have dropped our Covid-19 death total to zero. So it makes no sense to blame Trump for every Covid-19 death.

OK, let's pick out the ones we can directly blame him for: Every health care worker infected on the job. Because had the pandemic been properly managed none of them would have been infected on the job.

Second, hind sight is 20/20. Nobody would have picked the optimal course of action, because nobody knew the optimal course of action ahead of time.

This is bollocks! We've had extensive pandemic planning in place for decades. Trump dismantled most/all of it at the federal level. Anything that had Obama's name on it, he dismantled.

Clearly you are listening to Trump's lies that no one could have imagined this. This is the guy that's so ignorant he asked Dr Blix if we could look into cleaning the virus out of the body with disinfectants because they kill the virus on surfaces, something he heard from a woo peddler.

The Hill: Obama officials walked Trump aides through global pandemic exercise in 2017: report

During the briefing, Trump administration officials were told such a pandemic would likely lead to circumstances such as shortages of ventilators and that a coordinated national response would be “paramount,” according to documents obtained by the publication.

Of the Trump administration officials present during the meeting, about 66 percent no longer serve in the White House, according to Politico.

“The advantage we had under Obama was that during the first four years we had the same White House staff, the same Cabinet,” former Deputy Labor Secretary Chris Lu, who was present for the meeting, told the publication. “Just having the continuity makes all the difference in the world.”

"Thirty Trump officials attended the exercise (Cabinet and senior White House staff)," Lu added in a tweet on Monday. "But the vast majority of these officials are no longer in government

Getting back to Biden for POTUS, he would have been familiar with this pandemic planning and will have the capability to clean up the mess Trump has caused.

Third, not every death is equivalent. Harsh as it may sound, an 80 year old with a heart condition dying from Covid-19 when he would have died next year from a heart attack is not as bad as a 22 year old in good health getting shot to death. ....

Comparisons to Vietnam or not, you distorted view only old sick people are dying is what people use to rationalize away any fault Trump has in this.

 

[shemp]

Not good for Joe, that's for sure.

Personally, I would love to see a different Democratic candidate, but I don't know how that could happen, other than backing away and let Bernie have it, and I don't like Bernie either.

First, let's see how this plays out. If it doesn't go well for him, Bernie isn't necessarily the default candidate. There would have to be an open convention, even if it has to take place in the virtual world. I'm sure the party leaders would have time to pick a replacement, and to work on the delegates to make sure that replacement has the support to win on the first ballot. And I severely doubt that the choice would be Bernie.

Or, her story could fall apart. Or, even if it doesn't, Joe and the party might tough it out.

If she is telling the truth, then I hope that there's sufficient evidence of it, and that Biden backs out. The worst thing would be if she's believable but there's not sufficient evidence, and women voters turn their backs on Biden.

Of course, Republiscum are immune to this sort of thing. They don't give a flying **** about the morality of their candidates.

 

[Meadmaker]

First, let's see how this plays out. If it doesn't go well for him, Bernie isn't necessarily the default candidate. There would have to be an open convention, even if it has to take place in the virtual world. I'm sure the party leaders would have time to pick a replacement, and to work on the delegates to make sure that replacement has the support to win on the first ballot. And I severely doubt that the choice would be Bernie.

Or, her story could fall apart. Or, even if it doesn't, Joe and the party might tough it out.

If she is telling the truth, then I hope that there's sufficient evidence of it, and that Biden backs out. The worst thing would be if she's believable but there's not sufficient evidence, and women voters turn their backs on Biden.

That's what I'm afraid of.

The Larry King phone call means that it isn't likely to fall apart. At the very least, it means she told the story when it happened, even if she didn't come forward. So, we're stuck with a believable story for which there is insufficient evidence.

I understand that the final chapter hasn't been written yet, and all sorts of revelations could occur to change things, but from this point, I don't see how you get from here to someplace good. Proving his innocence would be nearly impossible for Biden. Proving his guilt would be nearly impossible for the accuser. Without the King phone call, it would be a case of a 30 year old out of the blue accusation, but with it, there's a contemporary account.


As for replacements, I get that there's a mechanism to make it happen by opening the convention, but doing that without huge political damage is something I can't imagine.

 

[applecorped]

Meet the new boss same as the old boss

 

[LSSBB]

First, let's see how this plays out. If it doesn't go well for him, Bernie isn't necessarily the default candidate. There would have to be an open convention, even if it has to take place in the virtual world. I'm sure the party leaders would have time to pick a replacement, and to work on the delegates to make sure that replacement has the support to win on the first ballot. And I severely doubt that the choice would be Bernie.

Or, her story could fall apart. Or, even if it doesn't, Joe and the party might tough it out.

If she is telling the truth, then I hope that there's sufficient evidence of it, and that Biden backs out. The worst thing would be if she's believable but there's not sufficient evidence, and women voters turn their backs on Biden.

Of course, Republiscum are immune to this sort of thing. They don't give a flying **** about the morality of their candidates.

Her story is already pretty shaky to begin with. Multiple story changes and love notes to Putin.

 

[Elagabalus]

She didn't mention anything about sexual harassment or sexual assault though.

"Yes, hello. I’m wondering what a staffer would do besides go to the press in Washington? My daughter has just left there, after working for a prominent senator, and could not get through with her problems at all, and the only thing she could have done was go to the press, and she chose not to do it out of respect for him," the caller says.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/cl...rry-king-live-alluding-to-biden-assault-claim

"...she chose not to do it out of respect for him" seems an odd thing to say if he had just sexually assaulted her. It would make more sense if she didn't like his touchie-feelie ways. And someone in the comment section said that her claims last year were more about workplace bullying.

Of course, she might not have told the complete story to her mother.

 

[Delphic Oracle]

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/cl...rry-king-live-alluding-to-biden-assault-claim



"...she chose not to do it out of respect for him" seems an odd thing to say if he had just sexually assaulted her. It would make more sense if she didn't like his touchie-feelie ways. And someone in the comment section said that her claims last year were more about workplace bullying.



Of course, she might not have told the complete story to her mother.

When a claim of abuse with a power dynamic at play is made, why do seemingly intelligent people suddenly act like they are oblivious to power dynamics?

 

[Elagabalus]

When a claim of abuse with a power dynamic at play is made, why do seemingly intelligent people suddenly act like they are oblivious to power dynamics?

I don't know you tell me.

I voted for Bernie.

 

[johnny karate]

And he’s already at the point where he should be disqualified from high office, depending on which prior case we are looking at.

Presuming you’re talking about Biden, how has he been disqualified from high office?

 

[Delphic Oracle]

I don't know you tell me.



I voted for Bernie.

"Chose not to" seems to be her mother's words, not her own.

I don't care who you voted for, I'm addressing your heinous behavior in trying to use a dead woman's words to mean something they don't about her own daughter.

 

[Elagabalus]

Presuming you’re talking about Biden, how has he been disqualified from high office?

I think he's talking about Trump.

 

[shemp]

That's what I'm afraid of.

The Larry King phone call means that it isn't likely to fall apart. At the very least, it means she told the story when it happened, even if she didn't come forward. So, we're stuck with a believable story for which there is insufficient evidence.

I understand that the final chapter hasn't been written yet, and all sorts of revelations could occur to change things, but from this point, I don't see how you get from here to someplace good. Proving his innocence would be nearly impossible for Biden. Proving his guilt would be nearly impossible for the accuser. Without the King phone call, it would be a case of a 30 year old out of the blue accusation, but with it, there's a contemporary account.


As for replacements, I get that there's a mechanism to make it happen by opening the convention, but doing that without huge political damage is something I can't imagine.

It isn't certain that was her mother making the phone call. I suppose she could find a recording of her mother's voice and hire an expert to compare it to the Larry King call.

Of course, Donald Trump can sexually assault anything that moves and it's just fine with his base.

If Biden's nomination goes down in flames, I think it's time to draft Michelle Obama.