Biden for President?

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dudalb said:
I think some of the Berniebros want Trump to win if Sanders does not get the nomination. The whole "FOUr more years of Trump will radicalize the masses and lead to the revolution" theory. That has never worked too well in the real word, but appeals to those for whom the revolution is always around the corner.
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It doesn't even make sense, but it's essentially a rationalisation of failure, or laziness. "Oh, well. We didn't win, but our loss if going to make us stronger, you'll see!!"

Shadowdweller said:
Just, you know, a thought here - have you all ever considered the possibility that 1) deriding, dismissing, and/or demonizing Sanders supporters as "BernieBros" and then 2) getting behind a candidate that progressives can't stand is actually an UTTERLY ******* STUPID idea if you hope to build a coalition that can beat Trump?
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Sauce for the goose:

dudalb said:
Will you say the same thing about the Bernie Bros who have been deriding, dismissing and demonizing "Centrists" and "Moderates" from day one?
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And the very next post:

Sideroxylon said:
Biden is the centrist hack, prone to brain melts, a history of lies and plagiarism who won’t tax the wealthy or put American workers first. We can understand why billionaires want you to get behind him and defend him, but you aren’t a billionaire though are you?
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It has to be a QED record.
 
Sideroxylon said:
Biden’s 1988 run is a poor portrait of character. Let’s here some apologetics on that. Or are we still waiting for some talking head on CNN or MSNBC to feed the talking points?
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"I'm Donald Trump, and I approve this message."

Seriously, Trump doesn't even need to campaign- he's got some of the folks who should be most opposed to everything he stands for doing all his heavy lifting for him. Why do you think he keeps tweeting all that crap about poor Bernie getting cheated by the DNC? All you're doing is parroting his talking points.

I guess we'll have to hope that when it comes to crunch time, if Biden wins the nomination, Bernie himself will be a little more adult about the whole thing than some of his followers.
 
turingtest said:
"I'm Donald Trump, and I approve this message."

Seriously, Trump doesn't even need to campaign- he's got some of the folks who should be most opposed to everything he stands for doing all his heavy lifting for him. Why do you think he keeps tweeting all that crap about poor Bernie getting cheated by the DNC? All you're doing is parroting his talking points.

I guess we'll have to hope that when it comes to crunch time, if Biden wins the nomination, Bernie himself will be a little more adult about the whole thing than some of his followers.
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Bernie has already said he will support Biden if Biden is nominated.
And Ihave come to the conclusion that some of Bernie's followers are quite a bit more radical then Bernie's stated policies.
 
Cabbage said:
.....said Belz, completely and ironically ignoring the point Cabbage was making.
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You're really something else. So if I make a post criticising you for missing dudalb's point I still must address yours or be called a hypocrite?

I'd say you're making up debating rules as you go along but you and I both know that it's just a way to avoid even considering the possibility that you might have made a mistake in responding to dudalb.

"No, you!" doesn't work in elementary school, cabbage. It sure as hell won't work here.
 
Belz... said:
It doesn't even make sense, but it's essentially a rationalisation of failure, or laziness. "Oh, well. We didn't win, but our loss if going to make us stronger, you'll see!!"



Sauce for the goose:



And the very next post:



It has to be a QED record.
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I also note that this a cerntain poster always refers to :"workers" ,never to the middle class as people who need help. I don't think that is a coincidence.
 
dudalb said:
Bernie has already said he will support Biden if Biden is nominated.And Ihave come to the conclusion that some of Bernie's followers are quite a bit more radical then Bernie's stated policies.
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I'm glad to hear that.

The fact is, I (as I've said) prefer Sanders; but I don't think Sanders could win over enough of the moderates he would need to beat Trump. I don't like having to think that, but it is, IMO, a reality. And since I think getting Trump out is the priority, assuming Biden wins the nom, I'll support him as forcefully in what I could at least realistically hope is a winning cause as I would have Sanders in what I would privately think of as a losing one. Even though I agree that Biden wouldn't be the best president from a progressive POV, he's a **** of a lot better than the alternative. You can't always get what you want; but if you try sometime...well, you know the rest.
 
Belz... said:
You're really something else. So if I make a post criticising you for missing dudalb's point I still must address yours or be called a hypocrite?

I'd say you're making up debating rules as you go along but you and I both know that it's just a way to avoid even considering the possibility that you might have made a mistake in responding to dudalb.

"No, you!" doesn't work in elementary school, cabbage. It sure as hell won't work here.
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I never missed dudalb's point--I simply responded with a point of my own. I don't know why this troubles you so, but somewhere along the way you are missing the point, and I am merely pointing this out.
 
dudalb said:
I also note that this a cerntain poster always refers to :"workers" ,never to the middle class as people who need help. I don't think that is a coincidence.
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It’s fascinating that you think I am making a distinction here. As a middle class worker I see the way companies are termiting my wages and conditions, bringing in foreign visa workers for less, if not wholesale shipping the jobs abroad. Biden represents these billionaire interests and not the working American.
 
Segnosaur said:
Seriously? Is your view of politics so skewed that you can't recognize the political differences between a republican (i.e. the group that gave us tax cuts for the wealthy) and moderate democrats like Biden/Bloomberg (who want to increase taxes on the rich), just because they aren't doing exactly the same things that Sanders is doing?
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OK. Exactly how many rounds of pushing for massive cuts to Social Security and literally every other assistance program (complete with enraged clarification that he really meant not just SS but everything that helps anybody because the suggestion that he'd limit his attack to just SS was so offensive to him), pushing for crime bills that primarily harass minorities, fighting to protect segregation, pushing for debt bills attacking the poor, voting for every war in sight, fighting for Republican judge nominees, attacking women for lodging sexual harassment complaints, and flipping his prior stances on things like Medicare For All after taking bribes from related corporations like medical insurance companies, would it take?
 
Why Biden’s First Run for President failed: NYT News

TL;DNW: Because was exposed as a lying weasel.
 
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Concerns over Biden's cognitive state are not new and did not start from Trump, Sanders, or Russian trolls.

Try Booker, Castro, and Ryan.

[url="https://theintercept.com/2020/03/09/it-was-democrats-and-their-media-allies-who-impugned-bidens-cognitive-fitness-yet-now-feign-outrage/?fbclid=IwAR1EygSFct4-jsuhQI2DaZaJnbbgQmgyqSm2Ci85eKhfN7qI3_f7iVPmESo]Democrats and Their Media Allies Impugned Biden’s Cognitive Fitness. Now They Feign Outrage.[/url]

And so, as does happen, what was once orthodox is now heretical.

As to the "why would people do this?" question, it reeks too much of faux-naivete. There's nothing people might gain by following orders? No patronage out there to be awarded for that loyalty? No potential for personal gain of some kind, financial or otherwise? Just a straightforward "should I do the right thing" decision with zero possible corruptive influence?

Horse hockey.

ETA: A lot of issues that happen in life and derided as "conspiracy theories" don't need a conspiracy to occur.

They just need to people to act like the system they are part of conditions them to act. Nobody cleverly designed the system to do so on purpose for some kind of 18-dimensional chess strategy.
 
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Segnosaur said:
I think the difference between BernieBros and BidenBoosters is how they often identify with the problems with their particular candidates.

Biden would not have been my first pick as a candidate, but I think he is best of what's left. However, I do recognize his track record of making embarrassing gaffes is a problem and it could cost the democrats at least some votes. (I suspect the majority of BidenBoosters here feel the same way).

On the other hand, when you point out the problems with Bernie, you often get a complete failure to acknowledge the problems by the BernieBros. Point out how his statements on Castro might cost votes (especially in Florida), and you get "Obama said the same thing/its true/etc.", when the proper response would have been "Yes it was a mistake." Point out how its foolish for Sanders to attack "Democratic elites" since he will need their support in the general election, and you get "Well, they had it coming". Point out how Sander's self-labeling as a "socialist" could be problematic, and you get "Well Republicans will attack anyone". Point out how the vast majority of people are against banning private health insurance, and you get some sort of claim about how "If you don't support BernieCare you want to see people die in the streets, besides look how great of a system it is!".
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I agree. I think Sanders has some problems any time he takes the bait on Cuba. I have said repeatedly that he should just stop saying any "Castro was bad, but Cuba...". He should just say that his model is Denmark or something like that. If you have to explain, you have already lost.

And yes, attacking the DNC is electoral suicide. He'd probably have more endorsements if he didn't do that.


As for socialism, there's not much he can do about it except just repeat his policy aims and not attach a label to them.


Segnosaur said:
I think the issue is that BernieBros are not just dealing with the gaffes themselves (which might be fair game), but they are trying to suggest that it is due to senility/dementia (which is at least partly speculative).

And keep in mind that at least one poster who has been supportive of Sanders (Sideroxylon) appears to have accepted a doctored video of Biden as valid.
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I think I should hold my hand up and say that I posted a video that it turns out was chopped at the end making it seem like Biden was saying "we going to re-elect Donald Trump".

So for that I pologize.

That said, the video still showcased Biden's talent for losing his train of thought mid-sentence. That's going to be a problem in the debates.
 
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