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Best Cold Reading demo?

Posted by MLynne

I will revisit it from a telephone perspective and give it a try.

Great, Lynne. I'll be interested in how you feel the two methods compare.
Posted by Garrette

The point was to explain why there are so few cold reading transcripts, not that they don't exist at all.

Well, that's not my point. My point is to try to -find- good cold reading demonstrations. And I think that people who seem pretty well convinced that "mediumship=cold reading" should be making an effort to make many cold reading demonstrations available, for educational purposes.

Do you imagine a show called Not Crossing Over in which Ian, every single day, tells the audience clearly and obviously at the end of the show "You were fooled?"

No one suggested having a show, obviously. But a videotape (DVD) or two, for educational sale, would be helpful. The lack of such educational cold reading demonstrations (and apparently no interest in making them--I don't think raising the money through grants would be so hard) is, imo, puzzling.
 
NoZed Avenger said:


Btw, I just spoke with the couple that threw that party -- this thread reminded be about the job question.

The sitter works for a state agency overseeing schools.

The relevant portion of the reading:



Dun dun DUN!!!!!!!

/begin x-files music


N/A

I am offering readings at $200 per hour as soon as I can overcome my moral scruples.

Oh, wait, I am an attorney. Ok: slots available immediately.

I'd like to apply, on the condition that I'm cold reading for complete morons who have no scruples themselves.
 
T'ai Chi said:
Please Claus, stay focused. No one is impressed, especially me, by your misreadings and avoidance of questions and issues.

No one?

Clancie said:
I'd understand if someone didn't want to participate in your project or personally didn't expect it to yield results. But I don't understand all the belligerence and hostility of a few people toward your desire to look into the specifics of cold reading in more depth.

Participate or not (as they wish) but why resort to all the repetiitive badgering and name calling ("liar", etc.) that you've quoted in your posts?

I don't get it.

Oh, yes, you do! Don't play the Bambi-eyed innocent bystander again. T'ai Chi has been caught lying twice the past day. He wants to do secret research. He refuses to say why it has to be secret. He wants to do research that is worthless. He ignores the points that are made.

It is not "badgering" or "name calling". People are pointing out the serious flaws in T'ai Chi's experimental setup, and he has also been caught flat-out lying. Twice.

Clancie said:
Well, that's not my point. My point is to try to -find- good cold reading demonstrations. And I think that people who seem pretty well convinced that "mediumship=cold reading" should be making an effort to make many cold reading demonstrations available, for educational purposes.

How soon you "forget", Clancie. You were unable to tell the difference between the cold reading transcript and JE's reading on TVTalkshows. You know they exist, you just don't want to admit it.

Clancie said:
No one suggested having a show, obviously. But a videotape (DVD) or two, for educational sale, would be helpful. The lack of such educational cold reading demonstrations (and apparently no interest in making them--I don't think raising the money through grants would be so hard) is, imo, puzzling.

You have been made aware of why people don't scam grieving people like that, and yet you persist. Puzzling.
 
Lynne is quite right. Just a transcript can skew the scoring because you might miss a clue of how the hit was obtained.
To give you an example. I have an old tape of a TV show from which a transcript would make it seem like Van rague had some very strong hits, even guessing at a WHOLE name! Right off the bat he told the woman that her son had passed away, and then he guessed his name as "Ken or Kevin" This would seem to be a super hit, but if you examine the video and step thru it you will clearly see Van Prague interviewing the couple BEFORE the reading (something he claims he did not do) and you can see him staring at a man's ring with the initial 'K' on it that the mother was wearing on a chain around her neck! Once you see that it does not take much deduction to figure out how he got the hits. If you had only transcripts, we would have been hard pressed to explain them.
 
CFLarsen said:

Oh, yes, you do!


No, I don't, but thanks. :)


T'ai Chi has been caught lying twice the past day. He wants to do secret research. He refuses to say why it has to be secret. He wants to do research that is worthless. He ignores the points that are made.


Please show me where I've supposedly been lying as you claim.

As far as so-called secret research, I suppose that Claus gets updates from all researchers all over the world whenever they change even the most minor thing in their study. Your email and mail box must be flooded...

Worthless research? Skeptics have studied transcripts ad nauseum. Heck, you have on TV Talkshows, on SkepticReport, and have posted articles by people doing the same. I guess all of that is worthless too, eh? Feel free to comment on your hypocrisy.


It is not "badgering" or "name calling". People are pointing out the serious flaws in T'ai Chi's experimental setup, and he has also been caught flat-out lying. Twice.


You're welcome to back up your claims any day now.

While you're at it, please provide evidence that videos increase hit rates in the ganzfeld as you claimed a while ago. :)
 
T'ai Chi said:
No, I don't, but thanks. :)

I was talking to Clancie. You seem to be under the false impression that everything I do is about you.

T'ai Chi said:
Please show me where I've supposedly been lying as you claim.

You lied about the cold reader having to be "professional".

You clearly gave the false impression about PM'ing Ersby a long time ago, so you would "still" be "waiting".

T'ai Chi said:
As far as so-called secret research, I suppose that Claus gets updates from all researchers all over the world whenever they change even the most minor thing in their study. Your email and mail box must be flooded...

Why keep it secret, T'ai Chi? All of a sudden, you slam the doors, and won't let everyone see it. Why?

T'ai Chi said:
You're welcome to back up your claims any day now.

I have. Your call, liar.

T'ai Chi said:
While you're at it, please provide evidence that videos increase hit rates in the ganzfeld as you claimed a while ago. :)

(groan) You really aren't interested in doing research, are you? All you want to to play games and get "even".
 
Posted by T'ai Chi

As far as so-called secret research, I suppose that Claus gets updates from all researchers all over the world whenever they change even the most minor thing in their study.
But of course, T'ai!

Claus must see it all! This is an important part of every single protocol done by anyone! Anywhere!

Otherwise all research is clearly worthless and must be....

"DISMISSED!!!"
 
If anyone is interested on books dealing with Cold-Reading and Mediums, here is a quick list.

13 Steps to Mentalism by Corinda
Larry Becker' World of Super Mentalism, Books 1 & 2
Practical Mental Magic by Theodore Annemann
The Art of Cold Reading by Robert A. Nelson
A Sequel to The Art of Cold Reading by Robert A. Nelson
Encyclopedia of Mentalism by Rodert A. Nelson
Psycho Babble By Herb Dewey
Mind Magic by Ormond McGill
Houdini on Magic by Harry Houdini
The Original Houdini Scrapbook by Walter B. Gibson

Of course these are just a few of the books I have handy (most of my books are packed away while I remodel) there have been many others mentioned that I also recommned like Mr. Rowlands book, as well as many of Randi's books, "FLIM-FLAM" in particular.
The book "Mind Magic" was intended for teens, but the funny part is that the effects it descrives are the very ones used by the likes of Kresin and others. They may appear to be simple, but they are reputation builders if you present them well. I highly recommend it!
 
Posted by magicflute

Any research that does not expose ALL its data for peer review should be DISMISSED!!!
So, magicflute, do you agree with the criticism of T'ai (and apparently any other researcher in the world) that all their research should be shared at this forum or else it is happening "in secret" and is therefore "worthless"?

I honestly think that's just the most ridiculous statement. It takes badgering someone for no reason to a new low, imo (and I thought I'd seen it all).
 
You are misrepresenting my comment It stands as stated. If ANYONE wished to have their research validated then ALL data upon which the research is based must be supplied. Otherwise any conclusions reached can not be substantiated. I did not at any time mention TaiChi or Claus or anyone so please do not twist my words. What I stated is the protocol for any research paper to be taken seriously.
 
NoZed Avenger said:
But I must say that I find it hard to believe that you did not consciously try to create such a "false impression" by a deliberate and willful choice of misleading terms:

"Ersby has been PMd regarding cold reader transcripts. I'm still waiting on a response."

Stating the facts this way was an intentional effort to create a false impression, namely, that you had sent the email some time before it was suggested. Your current "defense" of that practice is strong evidence that you are still doing nothing but playing games. Frankly, your comments above remind me of grade-school rhetorical devices and the word games used by children about what is "literally true" when cornered.



A convenient limitation, since it far easier to make a living as a "professional" psychic than a "professional" confessed cold reader.

N/A
N/A,

But now you do understand... He was the same (I won't characterize it) poster when he was Sherlock Holmes and when he was Whodini. This is why I've finally given up and put him on ignore. He's mistaken this board for GameBoy.
 
Posted by magicflute

do not twist my words
Reread the post. It was a question. Your comment is all well and good, magicflute, but it's irrelevant to the criticism of T'ai Chi that's being made in this thread.

He is not being criticized for not having peer reviewed data or making all of it available. He is being criticized for "conducting his research in secrecy" (i.e. away from this forum).

That is just ludicrous.
 
Clancie said:

But of course, T'ai!

Claus must see it all! This is an important part of every single protocol done by anyone! Anywhere!

Otherwise all research is clearly worthless and must be....

"DISMISSED!!!"

No Clanice, we should just take people on their word like you do. That's how good science is done, huh?
 
Clancie said:

must see it all! This is an important part of every single protocol done by anyone! Anywhere!

Otherwise all research is clearly worthless and must be....

"DISMISSED!!!"

Well, that mode of thinking certainly makes it easier to maintain a belief.
 
magicflute said:

If ANYONE wished to have their research validated then ALL data upon which the research is based must be supplied.


Yes, but at all times during the study? The researchers must respond to all demands to see the data at anytime, for any thing, for any reason?

Can you give any study where such a protocol was followed?
 
Clancie:

Well, that's not my point. My point is to try to -find- good cold reading demonstrations. And I think that people who seem pretty well convinced that "mediumship=cold reading" should be making an effort to make many cold reading demonstrations available, for educational purposes.

I will take this opportunity to state, once again, for your benefit and for the benefit of the skeptics around, that we are mis-using the term cold-reader.

Cold reading is one method to appear to obtain information via paranormal means. It is not the only method. When skeptics limit themselves to this term, then they weaken their argument when the possibility of cold-reading is lessened.

Cheating is, imo, the proper term to use. It includes cold reading but is not limited to it.

So, Clancie, I will clarify my personal position: mediumship = cheating.

My attempts to demonstrate fake mediumship (all of it, I think) will be attempt to demonstrate cheating, not just cold reading.

And, if you'll recall from long ago on tvtalkshows, I have tried to make them available. I'm one of the first to admit that they are difficult to find. I was surprised by this at the time, but not surprised in retrospect for reasons that have been repeatedly discussed here and repeatedly ignored, it seems, by you.

There are demonstrations. You've seen them. There are not many because of those reasons we've given.



Clancie:

No one suggested having a show, obviously. But a videotape (DVD) or two, for educational sale, would be helpful. The lack of such educational cold reading demonstrations (and apparently no interest in making them--I don't think raising the money through grants would be so hard) is, imo, puzzling.

No, it's not puzzling, it's rationally explainable which has been done. And there is not a "lack" of them; there is a paucity of them. They are not as numerous as demonstrations purporting to be of actual mediumship; repeat the repeated reasons.

That being said, I agree it is worth pursuing. I have given thought to how to do it myself when I am once again in a position where I might conceivably do so.

Question: Assume that I or someone else puts on a demonstration (admittedly by cheating) which is, in all the relevant particulars, at least equal in quality to the average JE reading. But it's only one. Would you accept it as sufficiently demonstrable, or would you then revert, as you have done here, to the defense that it is "not a pattern" of success?
 
BillHoyt said:

N/A,

But now you do understand... He was the same (I won't characterize it) poster when he was Sherlock Holmes and when he was Whodini. This is why I've finally given up and put him on ignore. He's mistaken this board for GameBoy.

Good, less posts for me to read. :D

I hope you don't lie and actually do end up ignoring me for good (doubtful). You have little constructive things to say when decent questions are raised, you avoid questions, and you have been known to make the silliest of mistakes like saying skewness is only called skew, for example, and then not admitting your error, all the time badgering me about my knowledge, and giving pseudo-lectures on what should be done with the board.

According to you, my type are kaffe klatch tse tse woo woo balloon flies. I won't lose any sleep over your ignoring me (again, doubtful), I guarantee it.
 

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