magicflute
Thinker
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Before you can do any type of counts you need to stablish a strict criteria for any item you're going to measure otherwise we'll have a repeat of the infamous "Florida Chad Counts" 
Best Cold Reading demo?
- Thread starter T'ai Chi
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- cold reading
Ian Rowland
New Blood
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Me too. I'd love to have a complete tape of my Prime Time session, or even a transcript. Alas, this is very unlikely to ever be available. It might be useful to explain why.Clancie said:The one I'd like to see even more than that is Ian Rowland's 30 minute cold reading for "Prime Time Thursday" that was edited down to 5 minutes. I have -heard- (unconfirmed) that some of the better hits were left out of the broadcast snippet of readings. But...no way to get that.
That particular Prime Time segment was taped on location using five cameras and, I think, five microphones (one on me, four hand-held mics passed around the small audience). It was not mixed 'as live' - the crew went back to the edit suite with five reels of video tape and five audio sources, only some of the audio sources being synched with any of the video sources. So it was a big editing job to get even five minutes of the session cut together in a viewable form. And they absolutely only edited together as much as they needed for the broadcast.
For the record, Clancie, the session lasted a little under half an hour (it was stopped by the producer, not me or the subjects). In that time I think I started about 8 threads, one of which was a complete dud and went nowhere. The other 7 were all successful to some extent, although of course some went better than others. One or two produced very strong hits indeed. The bits that were broadcast were neither the best nor the worst in terms of 'strong hits', they were just the bits that the producers felt were easiest to use for explanatory and illustrative purposes.
Thanks for the added detail. As I say, your cold reading demo was the one I really looked forward to seeing, particularly after having read your book. I just seem unable to understand why ABC went to such an elaborate extent to set up the demo and then used such a tiny bit of it. I guess their purpose in doing it was just so differerent from what I hoped for.
I know you've said this before, and I suppose it's true, but can I say that it doesn't really make sense to me? I mean, I find it really -strange- if they didn't make a master shot, with complete audio. I hope you don't mind me asking, but I have to.....Is this the way the PT people told you it was being recorded and mixed, or is this what you yourself surmised from being there?
If so, what a waste.
But, is there any chance of you doing something similar for someone else? You know, a video demo and commentary about cold reading to sell (....schools, lecturers, mediumship fanatics like me....)? Especially with all the outrage people feel about JE (or Sylvia), I don't know why no one has bothered to make and sell a tape showing "the other side". Have you ever thought of doing it...or maybe JREF getting a grant for you to do it? (How expensive is making a video like that anyway--not very!)
Anyway, thanks for the information and polite responses. I don't expect a reply to this, just throwing it out there (as the whole PT thing still bothers me greatly! lol, I guess it still comes through....).
I think it would be more expensive than you expect. It's not just a matter of a digital camera set up in a room. You have to get people there. More specifically, you have to get believers there.
Which leads to my conjecture (yes, conjecture) on what I think are the most salient reasons it has not been done:
1. You would need releases from the sitters. Remember that these are believers whom you would need to fool, then disabuse of their belief that you are a geniune medium, and then convince to be allowed to be shown having been fooled.
2. The moral repugnancy felt at fooling people like this. This has been mentioned and discussed several times. You have comments from NoZed and Ed about how their on-line readings made them feel, but you seem to simply ignore this aspect. It is not trivial, except for people like John Edward and Sylvia Browne.
magicflute
Thinker
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For everyones information, when you are editing from several taped sources, you normaly do what is called an AB or ABC roll. This means you put your 2 or more tapes each in its own player (the players are called A, B, C etc) you then using a video mixer (e.g. Video Toaster) proceed to copy only those portions from the source tapes that you want to keep to your recorder. You 'roll' a little from A then 'roll' the B tape, back to A etc. You never make a master tape of the entire contents of ALL the tapes. Once the all the clips are combined this becomes the MASTER. The other tapes are often erased and reused.
(I did special effects and editing for the Omnilink Corp back in the early 90s)
(I did special effects and editing for the Omnilink Corp back in the early 90s)
Ian Rowland
New Blood
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Clancie, of course you can say it doesn't really make sense to you. Nonetheless, I'm just doing what I always do, and telling the truth.Clancie said:
As to what the PT people told me and what I myself deduced, there's no distinction. Both apply. I myself was for many years a professional writer, producer and occasionally director of video shoots, so I know a little more than the average layman about the technicalities of taping and editing. I also had conversations with the exec producer, producer and director about how everything was going to be done.
The only way to have had a 'master shot' with all the audio would be to have done an as-live mix which would select as required from 5 camera inputs (one locked off, static, high wide shot and four with operators) and fade in and out as required from 5 audio sources (described in my previous post). They did not elect to do this. The 'master' shot was of camera 1 which framed me from head to waist, and which also took the feed from my lapel radio mic. In the edit suite, not while on location, they edited in as required from other vid and audio sources. This meant that they could, if they wanted, have manipulated the Ian / respondent interactions to make them look better or worse than they were. They didn't do this. The segments they did braodcast were an accurate depiction of the actual interactions that took place.
Compiling a complete record of the half hour session would be made slightly easier by the fact that I'm pretty sure all the video sources shared timecode, but even so it would be a lot of work. And no-one at ABC is interested in doing that work.
As an aside, really all you need is audio. Regardless of what is being captured on video, I am pretty sure that only one mic would be open at a time. Would not have been that hard to get an audio stream.
Ian R.- You might consider asking for the audio next time.
Ian R.- You might consider asking for the audio next time.
Ian Rowland said:
They didn't have to. It was very clear that you - as a cold reader - could - in shorter time than JE, actually - get people to fervently believe that you were the real thing. Tears, emotions, hits, and the nail in the coffin(!): The person who, despite being told the truth, insisted that you were for real anyway.
It makes no difference if we can analyze what you and others are doing, and come to the conclusion that you are all cold readers. If the sitter validates, then the medium is real. I've been discussing mediumship with quite a lot of people now, and I often hear that argument about psychic mediums like Sylvia, John Edward, James van Praagh etc.: If the sitter validates, then the medium is real.
Ergo: You are a real medium, Ian.
So, let me ask you then, magicflute. Let's say that you're a producer for a major tv newsmagazine that is using 5 cameras to film a cold reader doing a small group reading in a room where the people are sitting facing him (he stands looking at them). In such a situation, there is no complete recording (either made at the time, or edited together afterwards) of the entire event? Why?
Also, as Ed mentioned, wouldn't there be a complete audio of it? I'm not questioning anyone's facts, I just can't understand the rationale behind doing it this way.
That's exactly the point, Garrette. All these conditions were met during the PT demo, including editing things out of the broadcast version because they were too emotional and might cause embarrassment.. PT had nearly 30 minutes of -exactly- the kind of demonstration you describe--but, apparently, it's lost forever.
Clancie said:
Clancie - why are you sounding so suspicious that the recording was done in this manner?
Just sounds like any normal TV recording session to me. Variety of cameras and microphones that are capturing the event. Then it's all squirted over to the editing suit and the few minutes they need are edited together and that's it. If they’d needed 30 minutes they’d have spent the time to edit more of it together but they didn’t so they just edited together what they needed.
It's done all the time.
What do you think happens with a live show? A director is in effect making live edits all the time from a variety of sources, you don't get to see all the other camera shots and hear all the other audio sources he discarded to make the one programme you do see.
NoZed Avenger
Penultimate Amazing
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- 11,286
renata said:
Btw, I just spoke with the couple that threw that party -- this thread reminded be about the job question.
The sitter works for a state agency overseeing schools.
The relevant portion of the reading:
Dun dun DUN!!!!!!!
/begin x-files music
N/A
I am offering readings at $200 per hour as soon as I can overcome my moral scruples.
Oh, wait, I am an attorney. Ok: slots available immediately.
T'ai Chi,
Plenty here.
Plenty here.
Why don't you get your head out of your rectum and try to do some work yourself?
Plenty here.
Plenty here.
Why don't you get your head out of your rectum and try to do some work yourself?
Not suspicious, Darat. Not at all.
Just curious. And disappointed. And, as IRL, I don't really like to take "No" for an answer unless there's just no possible way around it.
PT did the -exact- demo I've wanted someone to do and, at some point, had a great half hour cold reading example.
There's not another one like that out there anywhere. I just keep hoping that, yes, maybe there -is- a copy of the whole thing (even the whole audio) that could still be made available, sold, whatever.
I guess the answer is just "No", but it's too...darn...bad!!!!
Clancie,
I don't understand why you don't express the same curiosity and disappointment when it comes to John Edward's "Crossing Over" show.
Why not? The whole "Crossing Over" has not been made available either (not even the audio), but I don't see you complain about that.
Why is that not "too...darn...bad"?
I don't understand why you don't express the same curiosity and disappointment when it comes to John Edward's "Crossing Over" show.
Why not? The whole "Crossing Over" has not been made available either (not even the audio), but I don't see you complain about that.
Why is that not "too...darn...bad"?
CFLarsen said:
Claus, once again your criticism is unfounded.
Your first link is to a bulletin board with thousands of posts. You call that showing transcripts of cold readers?
Your second link is to transcripts from Larry King Live- this is useful if I asked for transcripts of mediums, but I didn't. I asked for transcripts of cold readers, that is, people who are professional self proclaimed cold readers.
Please try again, with relevant links this time.
T'ai Chi said:
I'm sorry, but I get confused by your numerous threads about the same subject. I haven't yet understood why you need to open several threads, but I suppose you have your reasons.
You can find transcripts of proclaimed mediums there. As for cold reading transcripts, try contacting Ersby, as well as Ian Rowland's book.
How many transcripts of both mediums and cold readers have you collated so far?
CFLarsen said:
Yes, I am sure I could possibly find transcripts of proclaimed mediums there, but that is not what I asked. My question was if there are links to specific self proclaimed cold reader transcripts out there. I am aware of the books, but am also interested where cold reading transcripts are online, if there are any, that is.
Perhaps you could post specific links to these if you are aware of any. Thanks.
T'ai Chi said:Yes, I am sure I could possibly find transcripts of proclaimed mediums there, but that is not what I asked. My question was if there are links to specific self proclaimed cold reader transcripts out there. I am aware of the books, but am also interested where cold reading transcripts are online, if there are any, that is.
Perhaps you could post specific links to these if you are aware of any. Thanks.
Excuse me? Are you going to ignore transcripts, just because they are not online?
Have you asked Ersby?
There is a very good reason transcripts of cold reading sessions aren't readily available - and that is because a trasncsript can rarely convey what happens in a session. I could write one up, but you would lose a lot of what happens. Let me attempt an explanation and give an example.
I do cold readings on a regular basis using the techniques as described in Ian's book, and have done so for a few years now. I have created my own divination system, called Tauromancy, because when I did the readings with Tarot or Astrology, people said that even though I was telling them I was a fraud, the system was still working. So I constructed my own system based on small gold masks and various patterned chop sticks, into which I built the cold reading elements. Let me describe a session which happened a few weeks ago at a Psychology teachers' conference when I was doing readings on teachers so they could feel what it was like to have the experience. The word 'feel' is very important.
A mid-twenties woman sat down. She laid out the masks and I did all the preliminaries as described in the set-up section of Ian's book. I take that section VERY seriously. But you can't see the laying out of the masks and the way I twist my wording to match them - so a transcript immediately loses the way I work. OK, I said that she was hoping to have children one day. Pretty standard. She said: "Yes, we do." There's the transcript. Here's the key: she said it with a reserve and a sadness in her face. Something there. The 'we' told me she was in a steady relationship. I sidetracked and a minute or so later came to a mask which represents health. I said there was a health issue concerning her. That is the start which can almost always get me a hit with further effort, depending on how she reacts. She reacted very fast so I knew it was close to her. She said nothing. Hence - not a word in the transcript. Had she reacted slower, I would have headed for older people in her family.
At this stage I went straight for the big hit. I said, with warmth and compassion: endometriosis and nodded knowingly. (For the guys - this is a very common female condition which is a major cause of fertility worries. Mid-twenties women are usually pretty healthy otherwise.) She said, with the required shock and loud enough for all those watching to hear: "But no-one knew that except my husband and doctor!" and the classic line which is my measure of success with a reading "There is NO way you could have known that!"
There were two other possibilities: she had been tested for endometriosis - which would give me a hit anyway. Almost a certainty if he had fertility concerns. Note - I did not actually say she had endometriosis. I merely named it. She heard it as if I had said it and in my reply I went on as if I had. Had she said 'no' I would have suggested, quietly, she talk to her doctor about it. I would have nodded and she would have nodded and the audience, unable to hear quite what I said, would have seen all the nodding and I still had a firm hit - the believers would have been convinced I knew something.
The readng went on for ten minutes but by this stage I had her so much convinced and had so much key information, I had complete control and could have gone 'in for the kill' which is what I consider the TV psychics do as soon as they sense the tears. A transcript of the actual wording would tell very little of what happened and someone reading a transcript could not get the full effect.
Unlike those who exploit in order to entertain and make a personal profit and reputation, I could not go on when she was clearly emotional affected by what I had done. So I stopped the reading and debriefed on exactly what I had done. I always do that. I guess it is all about how ethically you use cold reading skills.
cheers,
Lynne
I do cold readings on a regular basis using the techniques as described in Ian's book, and have done so for a few years now. I have created my own divination system, called Tauromancy, because when I did the readings with Tarot or Astrology, people said that even though I was telling them I was a fraud, the system was still working. So I constructed my own system based on small gold masks and various patterned chop sticks, into which I built the cold reading elements. Let me describe a session which happened a few weeks ago at a Psychology teachers' conference when I was doing readings on teachers so they could feel what it was like to have the experience. The word 'feel' is very important.
A mid-twenties woman sat down. She laid out the masks and I did all the preliminaries as described in the set-up section of Ian's book. I take that section VERY seriously. But you can't see the laying out of the masks and the way I twist my wording to match them - so a transcript immediately loses the way I work. OK, I said that she was hoping to have children one day. Pretty standard. She said: "Yes, we do." There's the transcript. Here's the key: she said it with a reserve and a sadness in her face. Something there. The 'we' told me she was in a steady relationship. I sidetracked and a minute or so later came to a mask which represents health. I said there was a health issue concerning her. That is the start which can almost always get me a hit with further effort, depending on how she reacts. She reacted very fast so I knew it was close to her. She said nothing. Hence - not a word in the transcript. Had she reacted slower, I would have headed for older people in her family.
At this stage I went straight for the big hit. I said, with warmth and compassion: endometriosis and nodded knowingly. (For the guys - this is a very common female condition which is a major cause of fertility worries. Mid-twenties women are usually pretty healthy otherwise.) She said, with the required shock and loud enough for all those watching to hear: "But no-one knew that except my husband and doctor!" and the classic line which is my measure of success with a reading "There is NO way you could have known that!"
There were two other possibilities: she had been tested for endometriosis - which would give me a hit anyway. Almost a certainty if he had fertility concerns. Note - I did not actually say she had endometriosis. I merely named it. She heard it as if I had said it and in my reply I went on as if I had. Had she said 'no' I would have suggested, quietly, she talk to her doctor about it. I would have nodded and she would have nodded and the audience, unable to hear quite what I said, would have seen all the nodding and I still had a firm hit - the believers would have been convinced I knew something.
The readng went on for ten minutes but by this stage I had her so much convinced and had so much key information, I had complete control and could have gone 'in for the kill' which is what I consider the TV psychics do as soon as they sense the tears. A transcript of the actual wording would tell very little of what happened and someone reading a transcript could not get the full effect.
Unlike those who exploit in order to entertain and make a personal profit and reputation, I could not go on when she was clearly emotional affected by what I had done. So I stopped the reading and debriefed on exactly what I had done. I always do that. I guess it is all about how ethically you use cold reading skills.
cheers,
Lynne