BBC says Al Qaida is fake

Could you post a synopsis?
I really don't want to waste an hour on it.
 
i think the idea is not so much that al qaeda is fake, but the threat posed by al qaeda is way overstated
 
Skibum said:
Could you post a synopsis?
I really don't want to waste an hour on it.
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They claim that Al Qaida as organisation does not exist but
invented to create a new threat to the world after the collapse
of the soviet union.
 
defaultdotxbe said:
i think the idea is not so much that al qaeda is fake, but the threat posed by al qaeda is way overstated
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No no, they say Osama exists but Al Qaida as worldwide terrornetwork is a complete fairytale. :confused:
 
Oliver said:
No no, they say Osama exists but Al Qaida as worldwide terrornetwork is a complete fairytale. :confused:
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How do they explain Osama and his cronies being so eager to support the outlandish fabricated concept of Al Qaeda?

-Gumboot
 
No, the documentary argues that there is a threat from Islamist terrorism, but that Al Quieada is more of a franchise operation than an organized terrorist group.
 
brodski said:
No, the documentary argues that there is a threat from Islamist terrorism, but that Al Quieada is more of a franchise operation than an organized terrorist group.
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Gotcha...

As in... group in England does something, then goes, "Yeah, we're Al Qaeda too! W00t".

But in fact the first time OBL and his buddies learned of the group was after the attack had occured.

Well I've always felt that Islamic Terrorists were united by a common ideology, not by a common command structure.

-Gumboot.
 
...watching again right now...

Al Qaida as an organisation did not exist. The attacks on america
have been planed by a small group around Bin Laden in the late
nineties. What have united them was an idea, en extreme inter-
pretation of islamism developed by Ayman al Zawahiri.

With the american invasion, that group had been destroyed,
killed or scattered.

What was left was the idea...
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gumboot said:
Gotcha...

As in... group in England does something, then goes, "Yeah, we're Al Qaeda too! W00t".

But in fact the first time OBL and his buddies learned of the group was after the attack had occured.

Well I've always felt that Islamic Terrorists were united by a common ideology, not by a common command structure.

-Gumboot.
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As I recall, the director issued a statement after the 7/7 attacks to the effect of, "Okay, Islamist terrorism is real and really bad, but it's still overblown as a global problem." (absurdly rough paraphrase, I'm sure)
 
Oliver said:
I don´t know if this is posted before but a BBC-Documentary
claims that Al Qaida is an inside-job, an illusion, a propaganda
fairytale.

Debunkings, please.

The_Power_Of_Nightmares Part 3/3:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3649090417189127240&q=power+of+nightmares&hl=en
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I think every intelligence professional who knew anything about the Muslim terrorist network from before 9/11 to today all understood that "Al Qaida" is more an umbrella term for a wide array of terrorist groups who in may cases barely know and rarely communicate with each other - from the local guys in Indonesia who really don't care about anybody outside Indonesia to OBL and his plans to attack the west.

I think there is some reality to the fact that the Bush administration has not discouraged the general public from thinking of Al Qaida as a formal, para-military organization. It's much easier to gain and keep support for a war against one big, bad enemy than to explain that we're trying to supress multiple spontanious fundamentalist uprisings in diverse nations all over the world.
 
The american government set up a search for the al
qaida organisation inside its own country. Thousands
were detained by all branches of the law and the
military....

...and bit by bit they found a network. A series of
hidden cells in cities across the country. From Buffalo
to Portland. The americans called them "sleeper cells"
just been waiting to strike.

But in reality theres very (inaudible) evidence.
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Maybe some english people are able to sum it up. The
narrator has some gruesome british slang from time to
time. :D :p
 
Gravy said:
As I recall, the director issued a statement after the 7/7 attacks to the effect of, "Okay, Islamist terrorism is real and really bad, but it's still overblown as a global problem." (absurdly rough paraphrase, I'm sure)
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Sounds like he's parroting Michael Moore...

-Gumboot
 
Loss Leader said:
I think there is some reality to the fact that the Bush administration has not discouraged the general public from thinking of Al Qaida as a formal, para-military organization. It's much easier to gain and keep support for a war against one big, bad enemy than to explain that we're trying to supress multiple spontanious fundamentalist uprisings in diverse nations all over the world.
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I think there's is fairly substantial evidence to indicate that Al Qaeda is a fairly well organised entity, and is rather sophisticated.

I think the thing that has happened is other unrelated groups of fellow terrorists have CLAIMED membership in Al Qaeda when they are in fact just independent terrorists.

Al Qaeda are the mujahedeen who fought the Soviets in Afghanistan, and later took over the MAK infrastructure. They were trained and assisted by Pakistani, British, and American intelligence (to what extent depends on who you believe). I would expect them to be well organised and very professional. But I would also expect them to be fairly localised to Pakistan (ex. Afghanistan). And the operations in Afghanistan would have greatly hampered their efforts. The CIA maintain that the Al Qaeda leadership has been severly depleted.

Meanwhile every terrorist and his dog are CLAIMING to ALSO be part of Al Qaeda. This gives the impression that Al Qaeda is operating all over the world. While I would also expect there to be Al Qaeda members in various nations, I doubt they have established operations in many places - their operations tend to take a long time and be rather elaborate. Bojinka was stopped. 9/11 succeeded. The latest airline plot was also foiled. (Note, this plot appears to have originated in Pakistan which is where many suspect the remnants of Al Qaeda are now located).

The UK seems to have a fairly well established terrorist network, and there are obviously strong links to Pakistan. I feel this is sufficient to warrant investigations into a significant Al Qaeda presence in the UK. But as for the myriad of other terrorist activities about the place? I don't think they are related to Al Qaeda. Any claim of connection to Al Qaeda is one of opportunity. But opportunity for whom? Western governments? Or the terrorists themselves?

-Gumboot
 
gumboot said:
I think there's is fairly substantial evidence to indicate that Al Qaeda is a fairly well organised entity, and is rather sophisticated.

I think the thing that has happened is other unrelated groups of fellow terrorists have CLAIMED membership in Al Qaeda when they are in fact just independent terrorists.
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Well, I don't see that we disagree much. The "real" Al Qaida, as it were, is Pakistan/Afghanistan based and has decent organizational and operational experience. But the popular western notion of Al Qaida is an oportunistic myth that benefits all the parties involved in some way. Who exactly created the myth would be a great doctoral dissertation for some lucky Poli Sci grad student.
 
Loss Leader said:
Well, I don't see that we disagree much. The "real" Al Qaida, as it were, is Pakistan/Afghanistan based and has decent organizational and operational experience. But the popular western notion of Al Qaida is an oportunistic myth that benefits all the parties involved in some way. Who exactly created the myth would be a great doctoral dissertation for some lucky Poli Sci grad student.
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BBC said:
"Al Qaida is the term that americans had given him (OBL)"

"The americans decided to prosecute Bin Laden but to do this under american law in his absence, they had to create a criminal organisation like the mafia, whose members can be prosecuted without being present"
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That´s what the documentary says.
 
Oliver said:
That´s what the documentary says.
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If this is what the doco is saying I think we can feel fairly certain that it is full of BS ;)

And Loss, yes I agree that we are in agreement. :)

-Gumboot
 
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