arthwollipot
Observer of Phenomena, Pronouns: he/him
I think it's mostly because most people know Windows from work or office environments, in which Microsoft has a near-monopoly, and learning anything new scares them.
Avoiding Win 11 and staying with 10
- Thread starter Wudang
- Start date
Blue Mountain
Resident Skeptical Hobbit
In office environments, comments I've read on tech support forums say these people are barely able to use their systems. They know a few minimal tasks by rote. Any change in the environment causes a deer-in-the-headlights stare followed by a near total inability to continue their work. So to them it doesn't matter if the system is Windows, MacOS, Linux, or etch-a-sketch: outside of a very narrow scope they're clueless about their computers.
arthwollipot
Observer of Phenomena, Pronouns: he/him
Having worked tech support in such environments since before Y2K, I can authoritatively say that while such people do exist, this is not the case for most office workers, who in general are generally competent users. They do not need to have their hands held, and they do not melt down at the latest changes. In the 1900s, upper level management were still accustomed to having typing pools but that has changed.
The clueless ones are notable, and therefore talked about on tech support forums, because they are clueless.
Dabop
Master Poster
Thats one of the reasons I prefer Ubuntu (although I do use some others in special situations like the CNC machine is running both XP for one machine (software limitation- even in compatibility mode, it doesn't work well in any newer versions of windows) and LinuxCNC in dual boot mode...
But I regularly have visitors use my Ubuntu system to surf the net (as we have no cellphone coverage here, so if they want the net, its via my sat connection)- and as its a wired system they have to use my laptop- and most aren't even aware its not a windows system at all- they can easily find a browser on the desktop (I use both Firefox (my personal favourite) or Chrome (for some websites that dont play nice with Firefox), they can check emails and the like, and even use my printer (the next door neighbours kids regularly use my printer when theirs breaks down lol) they have no issues with using LibreOffice for example
Most are blissfully unaware that they aren't using windows at all lol- they don't 'need to learn' anything new, as the Ubuntu equivalents are already the same programs they often use in Windows....
(thats another reason I dislike the Windows platform- it needs regular (and large) updates that eat my sat connections data up...)
Sats not cheap ya know (but here its that or dialup....)
Mongrel
Begging for Scraps
And most tech support & customer facing forums are biased towards the worst stories. People rarely go there and tell you what a great day they had with no-one doing anything stupid, just as people rarely call up tech support to say what a great job they're doing.
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arthwollipot
Observer of Phenomena, Pronouns: he/him
For this reason, and because I was the monkey on the phone for such a long time, I always tell the tech support how much I appreciate their help.
plague311
Great minds think...
Yet, here you are, chastising me for bringing up valid points about why people don't use Linux. The whole "new OS scares them" argument I find to be bull ◊◊◊◊ as well. It's not that it scares them, it's that there's no bonus in changing. I don't gain anything other than the opportunity to use a bunch of outdated hardware? Awesome.
As I said, I haven't bought a Windows OS since Windows 7. For absolutely no cost at all I have upgraded from 7 to 10 and then to 11. Didn't cost me a dime because I run current hardware. I'd run current hardware if it were Linux as well. You seem to really think it's a huge deal, just like other people that use Linux. That's, quite literally, the only flex Linux has and it's not even a great flex.
With the current windows market I can get a ton of free apps. I bet I can even get linux apps from ninite. So Linux being free doesn't mean anything to me either. There's just no upside to changing to Linux because I don't have the raw, seething, angst filled hatred for Microsoft that you do. I never go into Linux threads and talk about how awesome windows is or anything similar. Linux has its use cases, it's fine. Just like Windows. It's fine, I don't know why anyone would die on a hill defending either. ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ insanity.
plague311
Great minds think...
I honestly thought that was common sense. No one tells mundane stories about perfectly standard phone calls. I'm not on the front lines anymore, since networking is an escalation tier where I work, but I think my wife's eyes would glaze over pretty quick if I told her all the ho-hum conversations I had at work with end users.
GIMP even wit on
As I mentioned I’ve used all the major (and most minor) apps from the first GIMP to Fractal Painter to Affinity, none of them are bad but Photoshop keeps calling me back.
And like any rational person I hate Adobe, the money grabbing, innovation suppressing, monolith.
There isn’t a Linux app that competes with what Photoshop can do, even the new GIMP in May didn’t match current Photoshop. Photoshop’s UI does need some learning but since it has set the norm for such apps in regard to the basic tools etc. they are what most people expect from all such packages. One thing that isn’t mentioned much today is how customisable the interface is, you can pretty much have it any way you want. Pull out an obscure tool only you and 23 other people in the entire world use and you can have it front and centre.
As I mentioned I’ve used all the major (and most minor) apps from the first GIMP to Fractal Painter to Affinity, none of them are bad but Photoshop keeps calling me back.
And like any rational person I hate Adobe, the money grabbing, innovation suppressing, monolith.
I was very hesitant about upgrading my main workstation from Win10 to Win11. The last upgrade, from Win7 to Win10 was a disaster. This time, I physically removed the drives and used an external disk cloner to make sure I'd be able to revert.
However, the process was painless (save for finding and disabling all the new annoyances). I still have a number of Win7 and Win10 boxes (used for testing; never connected to the Internet) that I plan to keep as they are, but my primary workstation retained all my apps, including ancient ones running in compatibility mode, and is much faster and reliable than it was before upgrading.
I use WSL, virtual Ubuntu 24, and several other distros (going back to CentOS 7) for development, testing, and productivity tasks.
I use the 3-2-1 backup strategy, plus a WinPE bootable drive in a fire safe for disaster recovery, on my main workstation. It would take me days, if not longer, to recreate everything I have installed. Some of the programs I use can't be installed on newer Windows versions, so upgrade-in-place was my only option.
The only data loss I've suffered since the Win7 disaster came from stupidly deleting files and not recognizing it until all the backups had rotated out of date.
It's not worth arguing about. One should use the OSes that provide the necessary tools and services, and take advantage of each's strengths.
However, the process was painless (save for finding and disabling all the new annoyances). I still have a number of Win7 and Win10 boxes (used for testing; never connected to the Internet) that I plan to keep as they are, but my primary workstation retained all my apps, including ancient ones running in compatibility mode, and is much faster and reliable than it was before upgrading.
I use WSL, virtual Ubuntu 24, and several other distros (going back to CentOS 7) for development, testing, and productivity tasks.
I use the 3-2-1 backup strategy, plus a WinPE bootable drive in a fire safe for disaster recovery, on my main workstation. It would take me days, if not longer, to recreate everything I have installed. Some of the programs I use can't be installed on newer Windows versions, so upgrade-in-place was my only option.
The only data loss I've suffered since the Win7 disaster came from stupidly deleting files and not recognizing it until all the backups had rotated out of date.
It's not worth arguing about. One should use the OSes that provide the necessary tools and services, and take advantage of each's strengths.
Oh, BTW, I get asked all the time why I keep CentOS 7 around. It's for compatibility. A utility I compile using the legacy libraries and tools always works on all other distros, from ancient to yesterday's release. The same is not true in reverse.
Dabop
Master Poster
I don't have a (to quote) "raw, seething, angst filled hatred for Microsoft"- thats why I do 'hate' windows fanbois tho- the sheer hatred for anything 'not windows' is quite evident lol...
The fact is that windows remains expensive and in many cases isnt even required- especially is you need to buy a new computer just to even keep using it for many people lol
Add in the maintenance costs (for many of us, our data is limited and expensive) and that can be a real deal breaker- especially when there are low cost alternatives...
But the fanbois keep on hating....
Dabop
Master Poster
I basically only use Gimp for designing laser etched front panels and the like and some 3d milling design, although Inkscape is better for that purpose in most cases (I used to use it for PCB work as well, but the new app I got takes care of that even)
I still have an old copy of Photoshop, bought back when you actually owned the software, rather than renting it out lol- Ive used the latest version as well on a mates computer, and wasnt that impressed by it- extremely hard to navigate and find stuff- maybe its useful for some 'power users', but really, for the average home user- its expensive, complicated, and not really even on most peoples radar at all...
How many people actually USE that kind of software on a regular basis as a HOME user (not in a business or whatever)???
Very few indeed....
Sure if your work (or play) demands that you use it- run windows...
But the basis that you 'have' to run windows because the linux versions arent usually as powerful isnt really a selling point for the average home user needing to spend big $$$ to keep using windows....
Especially when most people can already find many of their usual programs are on linux already lol
(Its the reason I run android rather than Apple as well- I am literally sitting here, transferring stuff from my mums old Ipad, because its 'too old' and now unsupported- works fine, and the apps on it still work (mostly, some auto-updated and are crippled) but she cant load new apps and some are crippled due to the autoupdates that previously worked- and she couldnt get all her old photos etc off it because its cut off from the apple cloud storage- so I'm currently dumping its entire contents onto a spare harddrive and loading what she wants to keep onto the new tablet (android this time lol)
Same as windows- it locks you into a forced upgrade cycle, where perfectly good equipment is locked out 'just because'...
A perfectly functioning Ipad is basically going in the bin, for no good reason- can't even use it as an ebook reader like my 2009 vintage android phone is lol
Shame as its got a really good screen compared to my own elcheapo $45 tablet from 2019 lol, but its effectively useless...
Blue Mountain
Resident Skeptical Hobbit
Good post, and an example of selection bias.
Blue Mountain
Resident Skeptical Hobbit
Have you tried Krita and Inkscape? Not that I think they match up to Photoshop. Part of the reason Photoshop is considered top of the class is because it's so powerful.
Despite the fact Adobe isn't very well liked, they have poured over three decades of effort and possibly over a billion dollars into Photoshop's development.
Andy_Ross
Penultimate Amazing
- Joined
- Jun 2, 2010
- Messages
- 66,817
Well, my upgrade grew a bit. I got a bundle of an Asus H310M-A Motherboard with Intel Core i5-8400 and 32GB of ram from someone who was upgrading his PC. I have also got a Crucial SSD ordered to speed things up even more.
Plus, while I was feeling generous to myself I got a new video card with 8 gig of VRAM to replace my existing 4gig GTX 1050 Ti.
Not as expensive as I thought it would be and I should make a few quid back from the old board bundle and video card.
Looking at the benchmarks for the hardware I get a good bump in video performance over my existing system.
Plus, while I was feeling generous to myself I got a new video card with 8 gig of VRAM to replace my existing 4gig GTX 1050 Ti.
Not as expensive as I thought it would be and I should make a few quid back from the old board bundle and video card.
Looking at the benchmarks for the hardware I get a good bump in video performance over my existing system.
plague311
Great minds think...
The irony of you bitching about "fanbois" while you're in another Windows thread talking about Linux.
A few points before I'm done with this because it's just getting circular at this point:
a) I said Linux has it's use cases. Yours is one of them. You have terrible internet connectivity, old hardware, and you want minimalist software that works on it. Good for you.
b) I run Linux machines. I've told you that multiple times, but you seem to be oblivious to it. Which is on par for you.
c) You've been wrong at every turn and continue to paint me as some Linux hater. You are no longer worth engaging, at all.
Dabop
Master Poster
A windows thread about someone DIS-SATISFIED with windows LOL
And yes, considering your continued abuse- I wont be seeing you around...
And yes, considering your continued abuse- I wont be seeing you around...
bruto
Penultimate Amazing
Pity those computers don't come with a back window so you can put up a decal of Calvin peeing on a Linux box, and vice versa.