Atheists destroy churches, attack the faithful

I'll stick with the dictionary definition, thanks. Funny how you ignored them.

well, I used the word; after your specious objection, I explained how it was being used; but you decide that you will "stick" with your own definition despite having learned exactly what it means in the actual context provided.

Deliberately obtuse is best obtuse.

And despite the quibbling over dictionary definitions, my point is unchallenged, because of course it is.
 
gaze upon what passes for concern about human rights abuses folks....

Instead of constantly avoiding my simple question, just try answering my simple question.

After all, if you actually do believe that there is such a thing as a God, then you should have no trouble in answering such a simple question instead of constantly avoiding answering such a simple question.
 
Atheism is a lack of belief in a god or gods. There are metaphysical implications in such a stance. Read up on metaphysical naturalism if you get a chance.

Metaphysical naturalism is generally what we call materialism.
However, this is not characteristic of atheism as such. A large group of atheists entertain various kinds of beliefs in the supernatural. Some are even organized religions.

Now, if this was a thread about 'Atheism' I might be inclined to agree to ignore those and concentrate on what we could call hard atheism, aka materialism aka metaphysical naturalism.

However, this is a thread about China, and, while predominantly atheist, Chinese culture is far from hard atheism. In fact, it is full of supernatural beliefs and religious and semi-religious notions (Buddhism, a form of Shintoism, ancestor worship, numerology, astrology, and general superstitions).

Let's call it Sino-atheism. ;)

If they were real atheists rather than just sino-atheists, in what way would they act differently?

Obviously, I have no idea. I don't consider atheism other than a minor influence in the MO of the Chinese government.

A political group, declared atheists, gain power. They believe that religions are false because there are no god or gods, and they believe that religions are a danger to social well-being. So they decide to limit and then probably remove religions in they can.

They are acting on the idea that they regard religions as a danger to society rather than to some pure idea of atheism.

"They" might. However, "they" are not the Chinese government. The Chinese government is fully aware of the social values in allowing, even maintaining part of the original culture, including various belief systems. Otherwise, they would not have written a commitment to do so into the constitution of the country.

People then think that I am arguing that "they are doing this because they are atheists!" But I am not arguing that. I'm asking how the metaphysical beliefs behind atheism -- the idea that the universe is all there is -- influences their actions. I see the statement that it is "atheism vs theism", "science vs superstition" and "materialism vs idealism" as an indication of thought processes behind their actions, which is ultimately about control.

If you think that the atrocities in China are ultimately about control, we are not only in agreement, but very probably right.

The fact that we see the same atrocious behaviour in other governments with state-sponsored atheism is possibly significant.

I disagree. Atrocious behavior is typical of totalitarian governments regardless of their religious background. Of course their choice of target groups might vary.

Hans
 
So that's the point I am making: what is connection between the metaphysical beliefs behind atheism and what is happening in China? Is there a connection? I think there is. I'm not saying "they are doing awful things only because they are atheists", but rather "they are doing awful things, and atheism is one aspect of the reasons behind it." The idea that all officially-declared atheist governments behave that way suggests some kind of connection.

Their atheism doesn't function when they support traditional Chinese cults? How is that possible? Sometimes they are and sometimes they are not?
If the main idea is atheism why they don't explain atheism in the internment camps? Why is indoctrination limited to Chinese patriotism, party hagiography and language?
 
Their atheism doesn't function when they support traditional Chinese cults?
"Support" traditional Chinese cults? Does the Chinese Communist Party in fact support traditional cults? Some non-religious aspects of Confucianism perhaps. But a quick Google search shows lots of articles where government officials are sacked for being involved in cults and superstitions like fortune telling.

Which traditional Chinese cults do they support, and how do they support them? If they do, I'd love to know. You might well be right, but it seems to go against what I've read to date.

If the main idea is atheism why they don't explain atheism in the internment camps? Why is indoctrination limited to Chinese patriotism, party hagiography and language?
Is that the case? Nothing to do with atheism? This is allegedly from Uighurs who have attended the camps:
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/wor...ecount-abuse-in-chinese-re-education-centres/

Authorities in China’s far western Xinjiang province have made loyalty to President Xi Jinping a central part of an extensive political re-education campaign that requires detainees to swear allegiance to the Communist Party while forswearing a Muslim faith that they are told to repeat is “stupid.”...

... The woman, whose name is not being used by The Globe and Mail for her protection, was put through regular self-criticism sessions. Part of the content was cultural. “My soul is infected with serious diseases,” she would repeat. “There is no God. I don’t believe in God. I believe in the Communist Party.”​

Where are you getting your information about what indoctrination was being done at the internment camps from?

And keep in mind that what is happening is consistent with the actions of the CCP elsewhere in China. According to a BBC article from 1999:

The Chinese Communist Party has launched a three-year drive to promote atheism in the Buddhist region of Tibet, saying it is the key to economic progress and a weapon against separatism as typified by the exiled Tibetan leader, the Dalai Lama...

Xiao called on Party members at all levels to pursue the campaign through the media and public organizations, with the emphasis on promoting popular science...

"They also pledged to make protracted and relentless efforts to continuously enhance the quality of propaganda on atheism."
 
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However, this is a thread about China, and, while predominantly atheist, Chinese culture is far from hard atheism. In fact, it is full of supernatural beliefs and religious and semi-religious notions (Buddhism, a form of Shintoism, ancestor worship, numerology, astrology, and general superstitions).
I agree that China is not predominantly atheist, but its government is officially atheist. In fact, it seems that superstitious beliefs (including non-approved religions) are gaining popularity amongst the Chinese.

Obviously, I have no idea. I don't consider atheism other than a minor influence in the MO of the Chinese government.
Sure, that may well be the case. It would be an interesting question to investigate.

"They" might. However, "they" are not the Chinese government. The Chinese government is fully aware of the social values in allowing, even maintaining part of the original culture, including various belief systems. Otherwise, they would not have written a commitment to do so into the constitution of the country.
True enough. Though the 'commitment' seems heavily framed to restrict the religions' influence within China and to support the Communist Party, rather than to support the idea that people are free to believe and carry out any religious doctrine that they like. It's pretty clear that if the religion is found to adversely effect society (as determined by the CCP) the religion falls afoul of the CCP constitution.
 
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TBD - I would respectfully suggest you pray for the Chinese to change their ways:

Matthew 21:22 And all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive.


Surely this should work?

Do you believe it will work?

Yes___ No___

If not, why not:

(protip: this is intended to focus on the sniggering dishonesty and hypocrisy of our correspondent)
 
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I agree that China is not predominantly atheist, but its government is officially atheist. In fact, it seems that superstitious beliefs (including non-approved religions) are gaining popularity amongst the Chinese.

And, in this particular case, we should chose to take their words at face value?

True enough. Though the 'commitment' seems heavily framed to restrict the religions' influence within China and to support the Communist Party, rather than to support the idea that people are free to believe and carry out any religious doctrine that they like.

Yes. as long as you serve the communist Party, or at least pay lip service to it, you are likely in the clear. Such as, for instance, the Catholic Church seem to do (or the Shaolin monks).

It's pretty clear that if the religion is found to adversely effect society (as determined by the CCP) the religion falls afoul of the CCP constitution.

Name a country that tolerates a religion that is found to adversely affect society (as determined by the government).

Hans
 
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Which does not answer either question.

Please can you do so?

No, because your question was another dishonest attempt to avoid discussing the real issues involving Unyielding Marxist Atheists human rights abuses in China.

I said I already posted what steps I think were appropriate to counter the ******* atheist scum in China, none of which involved praying.

It does amuse me that you think this insipid derail is clever, tho. Yet there are still millions of people in atheist reeducation camps, and the apologists don't care.

And so it goes....
 
It's really simple, TBD.

Any non-miraculous solution will take years, likely.

As the verse I quoted shows, any believer can pray and get what they want.

All it takes is one prayer, and the problem is solved immediately.

I can't understand why you're reluctant to do this.
 
It's really simple, TBD.

Any non-miraculous solution will take years, likely.

As the verse I quoted shows, any believer can pray and get what they want.

All it takes is one prayer, and the problem is solved immediately.

I can't understand why you're reluctant to do this.

I thought we agreed that your opinion is irrelevant right?

Yet, I get the feeling you are going to continue to post this nonsense, oh well.

But I tell you what Rincewind, you show where i have ever posted that "All it takes is one prayer, and the problem is solved immediately."

tick tock, in the meantime your brother atheists are filling up concentration camps with religious people, and I note that you have provided no solution.

tick tock
 
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I see - you're saying that prayer doesn't work.

I quoted the Bible - is the Bible wrong?

I get that you think prayer is nonsense, however, and won't even try.

and I still think that the Chinese Government is behaving despicably...
 
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