Atheists destroy churches, attack the faithful

kali1137 said:
That's funny. I asked what you would think of such a person, not that you were such a person. Guilty conscience?
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Oh golly, my mistake.

Good that you are making it absolutely clear for everyone that nothing in your post referred to me.

CONSENSUS!
 
The Big Dog said:
I have, at least in the context of Atheist China's “comprehensive war against religion." The last article I quoted does a pretty good job!
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The WaPo article was very good. I think this is a good summary of what it had to offer:

“This is part of a comprehensive war against religion,” Jin said in an interview. “The Communist Party has begun to see religion as a competitor. It’s not just [Protestant] Christianity, but also Catholicism, Buddhism and Islam. They want all of us to pledge our loyalty to the party.”
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But I had a hard time discerning what it had to say about atheism and how atheism influenced or encouraged the atrocities, much less compels them. Maybe that had something to do with the fact that the article never mentions atheism or atheists.

Almost as if the WaPo was focusing on how the Communist Party was waging this war for ideological reasons that were independent of whether one believed in god. As if the Communist Party was perfectly happy with religion so long as the religious leaders "pledged loyalty to the party."

Thanks again for the link to the article. But it really didn't seem to address the issue of atheism at all.
 
Dr. Keith said:
The WaPo article was very good. I think this is a good summary of what it had to offer:



But I had a hard time discerning what it had to say about atheism and how atheism influenced or encouraged the atrocities, much less compels them. Maybe that had something to do with the fact that the article never mentions atheism or atheists.

Almost as if the WaPo was focusing on how the Communist Party was waging this war for ideological reasons that were independent of whether one believed in god. As if the Communist Party was perfectly happy with religion so long as the religious leaders "pledged loyalty to the party."

Thanks again for the link to the article. But it really didn't seem to address the issue of atheism at all.
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Plenty of other cites that you should have already digested...

Xi’s ‘Atheist Ideology' Driving Crackdown on Chinese Christians
 
It's hard for me to completely buy the Chinese as atheists because essentially they do have a god - Chinese Communism, and a cult of personality that Xi Jinping is trying to create. Not all religions need to worship something supernatural. If Xi is the people's only path to salvation, he becomes the country's one true faith. And the CCP is a jealous god. Like many ideologies, it is intolerant of other ideologies.

In North Korea, the state religion is the Kim dynasty. As reported in the Guardian,

When it came into being in 1948, official history writers dated Kim Il-sung’s Korea back to the year of his own birth. The now familiar Juche calendar, inaugurated in 1997, recalculated time from the year Kim Il-sung was said to have come to earth from heaven in 1912. Like some ancient creation myth newly minted, time itself began, or was renewed, with the birth of Kim Il-sung.
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The Big Dog said:
Plenty of other cites that you should have already digested...
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How many links do you think it will take for you to make your argument?

You linked to an article and I read it in good faith assuming that it did a good job of addressing your point. That it didn't address your point is somewhat of a letdown, because I think it had a good point to make and made it well.

May I suggest you reread it.

Xi’s ‘Atheist Ideology' Driving Crackdown on Chinese Christians
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Assuming this is a fair representation of your point, I know it is a big assumption, this doesn't really explain much more. the only quote that seems to be relevant is:

“I think the motivation primarily comes from the atheist ideology that Chairman Xi Jinping learned during his formative years of the late 1950s and 1960s,” said Yang Fenggang, director of the Center on Religion and Chinese Society at Purdue University.

“Rising nationalism is another factor for the anti-Christian and anti-Islamic campaigns,” he said in response to queries, referring in the latter case to the state’s treatment of Uighur Muslims.
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It would be nice if Yang Fenggang explained why he thought the motivation came from atheist ideology and what sort of atheist ideology. But he doesn't. I suppose he may have told the reporter, but the reporter didn't feel the need to include that in this article. Too bad, since that is really the question I asked. Not "do you think this push is related to atheism?" but "why do you think that?"

Is it too much to ask for you to put this in your own words?

Also, the rest of the article provides more support for rising nationalism being the main driver here, rather than some nebulous concept of "atheist ideology".

Finally, I will note that there are some great comments on that article:

LiberalismIsASocialDisease said:
Atheism/Secularism has always lead to the genocide of Christians. And, the US people have allowed the "Separation Of Church And State" Lie to create an Atheist/Secularist society in US. Soon, you will see the Left demanding execution of Christians in the US, just like they do in China. The Left already has succeeded in oppressing Christians and lying about how evil Christianity is.
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The problem with Uighur population is not confined to religious beliefs. China is seeking to dilute any loyalties people may have toward their minority ethnic group, and it has some things in common with the campaign to water down the Tibetan Buddhist culture by importing Han Chinese. It is China's paranoia about separatism that makes the Dalai Lama such a dangerous figure to China.

The Uighur (or Uyghur; spellings differ) are considered a problem not just because of a religion but because they think of their province on China's western edge as "East Turkestan," and they speak Turkic. Any minority or separatist movement in China is going to be oppressed; these are just the 2 of the bigger ones. China wants to do away with any allegiances that depart from the official line. They pick on religion as an obvious cultural difference, but any identity or loyalty that threatens the CCP is going to be repressed. I'm not defending China here; they are a repressive regime with an horrible human rights record, but this is a broader issue than persecution of religious people. It amounts to a what might be considered cultural genocide.

This is a long thread; probably posters have already raised these points. Apologies for posting when I may not be up to speed.
 
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Dr. Keith said:
I'll take that as an indication that you are not going to respond to my post:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=12434019#post12434019

And seriously, that WaPo article is a very good summary of why this is happening if anyone wants to read it. And the fact that the words "atheist" and "atheism" do not show up in it are not accidents.
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That was what in the business call a follow up to the article in the OP, which a skeptic claimed also did not say atheism.

Or should I say Firm Marxist Atheism, just like Xi and his lackeys did?
 
The Big Dog said:
To answer: absolutely not and indeed that argument is ludicrous. That is like saying that because some people might be sick, we killed them all to save them.
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I'm not really seeing your analogy here. Clarification for those of us too dumb to get it the first time?
 
The Big Dog said:
no, wrong. plus fallacy ad hominem

:rolleyes:
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NO ad hominem at all.

I had a quick look at the link, and it didn't show what CNS meant.

So - I queried Wiki, and the selection was:

Cartoon Network Studios
Catholic News Service
China News Service

The Catholic seemed to be the most likely match.

Hence the "?" - and lack of ad hominem.

Please can you enlighten me if you know what CNS means?


Thank you.
 
Rincewind said:
NO ad hominem at all.

I had a quick look at the link, and it didn't show what CNS meant.

So - I queried Wiki, and the selection was:

Cartoon Network Studios
Catholic News Service
China News Service

The Catholic seemed to be the most likely match.

Hence the "?" - and lack of ad hominem.

Please can you enlighten me if you know what CNS means?


Thank you.
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Cyber News Service
 
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