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Atheists Assemble! The Illuminati Are Under Assault!

Now as far as the point you are making in this thread, which I understand now, is that of course the kook are weary of rationalists, because since the kooks are by nature paranoid, they will automatically lash on to the one's who are on to them, the skeptics, and accuse them of being either "in on it", like the Alex Jones-type truthers do, or flat out invent an entire Grand Conspiracy about them, like the Illuminati CTers.

Opposition is to them proof of a conspiracy, and the more we oppose them or try to debunk them, the more they will believe we are the ones who are actually behind everything. Which makes me think sometimes that we really should ignore them, this way we won't reinforce their beliefs.
 
...we need people unaffected by idiotic reactionary stuff that muddies the water.

...I said no such thing ... but here's a song for the night ... in fact it's already day here .. cu

I guess I am more easily confused than Pardalis is.

Didn't you just explain to Pardalis on the previous page about the imprecision of using "we" to describe our personal opinions?

Who, exactly, is the arbiter of "idiotic reactionary stuff"? And doesn't linking to conspiracy sites to make a point often muddy the waters?

If the fates of Knigge and Goethe are not about to be repeated ("I said no such thing") then isn't your entire addition to the thread just a little futile?
 
...[snip]...Do the religious right not conflate atheists with Satanists sometimes? I sort of had the impression that some of them think that atheists don't really exist, and therefore must be lying about their stated position. This seems to be predicated on the idea that a "religous urge" is built in, presumably by their god

You would be correct Fiona.

Example 1: This blog claims that Satanists are atheists therefore atheists are Satanists. An individual in the comments section claims there is no distinction between atheism, Satanism, and secular humanism.

Example 2: Rather lengthy thing that I don't expect anyone to completely read. The jist of it is that atheists are liars and heathens who know God really exists but because they are Satanists will never admit; which is contradicted several times in the article when he attempts to make a logical argument that atheists deny the existence of God. He also calls the dictionary definition of atheist deceptive.

Example 3: Classic paranoia plus strawman arguments. This link makes the claim that atheism is little more than Satanism plus humanism and that the two are morally linked.

Of course if any of these individuals did an ounce of research they'd probably find that secular humanist atheists are in as much conflict with LaVeyan and Theistic Satanists as anyone else. About a month or two in my blog I criticized the Theistic Satanic group "Cathedral of the Black Goat" for misrepresenting natural selection to mean something along the lines of a Satanic call for anti-Christian violence. Numerous other atheists have attempted to discredit, rather well I might add, the notion that atheism and Satanism (See comment by Geezah) are inexplicably linked.

So yes Fiona. It’s a sad but true fact that Christian fundamentalists accuse atheists of being Satanists. I think the worst of it comes from the groups who are fringe even by the standards of the larger groups who argue that there is some sort of nefarious atheist conspiracy going on. Usually this involves science, evolution, and accusations that atheists are secretly controlled by a Satanic cabal who is spreading their master’s work of fooling atheists into believing God doesn’t exist. Similar to one of the claims in the Elder Scrolls of Zion about Jews using Communism to spread atheism before reclaiming the world under a Jewish order…but not quite so anti-Semitic. Christian fundamentalists need Jews in Israel and constantly fighting to fulfill their prophecies that would otherwise be left unfulfilled and foil the carefully laid plans of the creator of the entire cosmos.

Of course there are alot of groups who claim that atheists are apart of the Illuminati. Others claim that they're merely pawns in the whole thing as evidenced by some claims in this website. And video here. So according to this argument atheists, nihilists, liberals, communists, etc. etc. are all just pawns of a mass banker conspiracy who has sold their souls to the devil and assassinated Lincoln. Too bad with all of their infinite power and influence they weren't able to keep themselves from being essentially purchased by the American government as a result of a disastrous sub prime mortgage fiasco, am I right? There’s no need to debunk these claims as they conspirators present no evidence. Listen to the video, listen to the entire series. An enormous amount of claims are made but during this time no evidence is presented. In fact; no one ever presents evidence. Why don’t I debunk the claims that it was Bush behind 9/11? Because no one ever presents evidence that’s why I, nor any other rational individual I know, bother to debunk those claims. At best what conspiracy theorists do is present hypothetical scenarios using minor factual anomalies and what if scenarios and tout them as being the only possible explanation for x event(s). At worst they attempt to aggregate irrelevant data until they get a conclusion they like.

ETA: Sorry I had to break up the tiff Childlike Empress, stilicho, and Pardalis were having. ;)
 
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ETA: Sorry I had to break up the tiff Childlike Empress, stilicho, and Pardalis were having. ;)

Eesh, yeah, sorry about the punctuation in there.

I know it's anecdotal but I know some fundamentalists of the hand-waving variety. They know of my lack of "faith". Not one of them has ever suggested I was a "Satanist". I even wear dark colours rather frequently and still nothing.

Do I just know the wrong type of fundamentalists?
 
Eesh, yeah, sorry about the punctuation in there.

I know it's anecdotal but I know some fundamentalists of the hand-waving variety. They know of my lack of "faith". Not one of them has ever suggested I was a "Satanist". I even wear dark colours rather frequently and still nothing.

Do I just know the wrong type of fundamentalists?

Well I've met a few from my church who didn't suggest that I'm a Satanist but believe Satan has deluded me; which is roughly the same thing in their minds. The only one's I've ever actually heard ouright claiming all atheists were Satanists were the nut-jobs on the internets. Regardless; mainstream America doesn't have a particularly enlightened view of atheists which tends to breed these CTs. Then again I've only ever met three 9/11 deniers as well. One was a fellow student through-out high school. Another was the dumbest freshman I've ever met in my life. And the third was a teacher's assistant who called me a sheep when I corrected her about a point she attempted to make regarding the pieces of United 93 found near Indian Lake (I pointed out that debris typically doesn't travel by road).
 
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Adam Weishaupt? Nesta Webster? Sheesh, all I'll need to see mentioned is Albert Pike and this thread will be a "Pastor David J. Smith" trifecta for me.
 
I And doesn't linking to conspiracy sites to make a point often muddy the waters?

Well, no, I don't think it does if the question is what do conspiracists believe and what, if anything, should be done about it.

I really cannot see how you and paradalis could have read Childlike Empress' contributions as you did.
 
Well, no, I don't think it does if the question is what do conspiracists believe and what, if anything, should be done about it.

I really cannot see how you and paradalis could have read Childlike Empress' contributions as you did.

There's a whole history of CE posting conspiracy material she believes in.
 
I did see that CE said there are some she believes in earlier in the thread, but I was only judging by this thread, since I do not usually go to the CT stuff and do not know the personalities.
 
CE Don't mix up confusion with incomprehension. It's not that I don't understand this woman's point, it's just too bizarre an argument to bother with.

Oh Childlike far be it from me to take my cue's as to what's cool from a german guy who calls himself "empress".
 
My German is limited to the following:

1] Ich spreche nicht Franzosiche.
2] Ihre Kopf ist in flammen.
3] Diese weg sur Gaskammer.

1) "I speak no Frensh"... es ist besser, wenn man "Ich spreche kein Franzosisch" spricht. Oder "Ich kann kein Franzosisch".

2) "Youer (plural, informal) heads are on Fire". Man soll "Ihr Köpfe sind in Flammen" oder "Dein Kopf ist in Flammen" sagen.

3) "This way sur (?) gas chamber". -- "Dieser Weg zur Gaskammer" ist vielleicht besser.

Aber ich bin nur Anfänger des Deutsch. ;)

Es tut mir leid, dass ich so spät bin.
 
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Well I've met a few from my church who didn't suggest that I'm a Satanist but believe Satan has deluded me; which is roughly the same thing in their minds. The only one's I've ever actually heard ouright claiming all atheists were Satanists were the nut-jobs on the internets. Regardless; mainstream America doesn't have a particularly enlightened view of atheists which tends to breed these CTs. Then again I've only ever met three 9/11 deniers as well. One was a fellow student through-out high school. Another was the dumbest freshman I've ever met in my life. And the third was a teacher's assistant who called me a sheep when I corrected her about a point she attempted to make regarding the pieces of United 93 found near Indian Lake (I pointed out that debris typically doesn't travel by road).

Being prone to delusion is almost a natural human trait. I know what you are saying about people attributing that delusion (or even a contrary perspective) to some mysterious agent.

I would like to see a baseball or football game played in its entirety some day in which none of the players display religious symbols or gestures. I really don't think Jesus is going to help anyone hit Francisco Rodriguez' slider.
 
I did see that CE said there are some she believes in earlier in the thread, but I was only judging by this thread, since I do not usually go to the CT stuff and do not know the personalities.

CE is a hard core 9/11 Truther. She has a certain reputation here.
 
CE is a hard core 9/11 Truther. She has a certain reputation here.


Thank you Fiona. As you know, a lot of people on this board think that someone who challenges the orthodoxy on one topic is fair game for ridicule and not to be taken serious on any topic. My view as a 911 skeptic is only in so far hardcore that i'm a member here for over two years and still not convinced that there is nothing to see beyond the official story. I reject a lot of theories put forward by the "truth movement".

But what to expect from a person like dudalb who does nothing but going around and slandering people? A few days ago he called me a terrorist wannabe. Thankfully the mods try to be fair and at least modboxed his disgusting post after i've reported it.

Pardalis, who manages to misunderstand me since we first communicated, and others at least not sink to lows like that, so sometimes i enjoy playing with them.

The 911 CT subforum, however, has gone from bad to worse and i prefere letting them rot in their own stink.
 
Being prone to delusion is almost a natural human trait. I know what you are saying about people attributing that delusion (or even a contrary perspective) to some mysterious agent.

Right; that's what I was taught all throughout Sunday school as a young Christian. My church was one of the really hardcore anti-evolution anti-atheist chuchs that you sometimes hear about on websites like these. Our Pastor fully admitted that atheists are smarter than him only that it didn't matter because they were wise in human knowledge and humans are incapable of knowledge that doesn't come from God. Very anti-intellectual, very racist, very homophobic, very xenphobic, very KJV-only. We were basically taught that all knowledge that humans could attain was false, a delusion created by Satan, and that the bible was the only source of true objective knowledge. Ironic that they also taught God wants us to excel at school. This seemed contradictory to me so I asked the Pastor and he said to excel but never believe any of it.

stilicho said:
I would like to see a baseball or football game played in its entirety some day in which none of the players display religious symbols or gestures. I really don't think Jesus is going to help anyone hit Francisco Rodriguez' slider.

That'd be something but I guess the both of us will just have to keep dreaming; the only contemporary athlete I know of who is an admitted atheist is Lance Armstrong.
 
Right; that's what I was taught all throughout Sunday school as a young Christian. My church was one of the really hardcore anti-evolution anti-atheist chuchs that you sometimes hear about on websites like these. Our Pastor fully admitted that atheists are smarter than him only that it didn't matter because they were wise in human knowledge and humans are incapable of knowledge that doesn't come from God. Very anti-intellectual, very racist, very homophobic, very xenphobic, very KJV-only. We were basically taught that all knowledge that humans could attain was false, a delusion created by Satan, and that the bible was the only source of true objective knowledge. Ironic that they also taught God wants us to excel at school. This seemed contradictory to me so I asked the Pastor and he said to excel but never believe any of it.

My experiences with Christianity were rather different in spite of being a preacher's kid. I remember many of the things my dad used to tell me, including "don't believe everything you read". I asked him once if every law in Leviticus was true and he said, if it was, nobody would have been left alive to write the damned thing.

My dad's side of the family had regular reunions until a few years ago and everyone would bow their heads in prayer for grace at the barbecue and then an unending stream of beer and friendly verbal jousting: 'Oh yeah? Well you're full of ******!' 'Really? No way--you're full of ******!' I still recall helping carry my grandpa to a taxi. There were never any fisticuffs and the feelings of love were palpable and decidedly irreligious.

Atheism or agnosticism in our generation (assuming you're roughly the same age as me) comes from disparate influences. It comes from tolerance as well as reaction. The thing is, there is no "Society of Atheism" because, like religion and Heinz sauces, it has so many varieties. The age of reason, the reaction against the Enlightenment, idealism, romanticism, nationalism, agonisticism, and atheism, are very young in their development in popular culture. Their influence might be temporary but successive generations appear to develop an immunity to religion.

At least in North America.
 
Just a quick response on the age thing but I'll have been twenty for two months come October 2nd.
 

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