Atheism Plus/Free Thought Blogs (FTB)

[Badger3k]

She was diagnosed with cancer. Quite a "scam".

The scam was asking for money in advance just in case she can't pay the bills. And apparently she was so successful she made what she needed in a few days.

 

[westprog]

I wander over every day to check their stats. I don't have a broad enough picture to post any results/trends, though.

But while I'm there, I check into random threads. Since we're all so nutso here in politics threads, I thought, "This ought to be fun"... But they have no diversity of opinion, so there's no heated discussion. In one thread, a sainted regular started a rant about how evil the GOP is with insults and curses flying. One person suggested that calling names was probably not the best way to get a dialogue going, and one of the first people to shout him down? A mod, of course. It seems if you suggest civility, the mods come to get you.

And persisting in calling for civility will land you a permanent ban. As I can testify. However, so can rudeness - as I can testify. Rudeness is only permitted in the service of goodness.

After a while, it just gets boring. Any ideas I attempted to introduce were left isolated, like little individual kernels of corn. They don't wish to deal with contrary thought. The subject has been decided. If someone insists on pursuing a point, they'll be told to refer to some random other thread or set of links, after which their mind is expected to have changed. If they don't demonstrate total familiarity with the topic, they'll be punished. Of course, the links need have nothing to do with the topic at hand, or answering the question. Pointing this out is also worthy of punishment. Questioning the punishment is worthy of punishment. Saying that you're going to be punished - oh, you can bet that will get you a punishment. Breaching the rules of the forum in a blatant fashion? No, that's fine.

 

[Badger3k]

All of her money comes from books, speaking engagements, etc. No scam involved.

Her income is taking a hit, because she had to cancel all of her engagements to go into surgery for endometrial cancer. On top of that, her father died a few weeks ago. Regardless of what you think of the woman, you shouldn't wish that lot on anybody.

So how did a dislike of people asking for handouts before actually, you know, getting any bills or actually having a surgery and doing their best to work and support themselves, since that was what they wanted to do in the first place - how does that get into "wish that lot on anybody"? I seriously want to know the logic of how that works. That's the same logic the Plussers use, so if you can explain how that works, maybe I can understand where they are coming from.

 

[Foolmewunz]

The scam was asking for money in advance just in case she can't pay the bills. And apparently she was so successful she made what she needed in a few days.

And that still doesn't say "scam". I know of someone here who had a temporary need and it was posted in Forum Community. Within thirty six hours, she'd raised the money she needed - and she thought she was going to be hustling for weeks to get it together. Were we "scammed"? (I wasn't because I wanted to contribute and she sent me a PM telling me that it was no longer necessary.)

We may disagree with some of these folks as to tenor and specificity of the direction we want to go, but most of us probably come down on the side of humanism, feminism and atheism. You're slandering "one of us", and "the rest of us" may not take too kindly to that.

 

[westprog]

All of her money comes from books, speaking engagements, etc. No scam involved.

Her income is taking a hit, because she had to cancel all of her engagements to go into surgery for endometrial cancer. On top of that, her father died a few weeks ago. Regardless of what you think of the woman, you shouldn't wish that lot on anybody.

I certainly wouldn't want to be unsympathetic to someone under those circumstances. It's the personalisation and stigmatising that's so offensive in the A+ movement, and I wouldn't want to take part in the same thing. A+ is a trivial thing in the world - cancer is a big deal.

 

[westprog]

We may disagree with some of these folks as to tenor and specificity of the direction we want to go, but most of us probably come down on the side of humanism, feminism and atheism. You're slandering "one of us", and "the rest of us" may not take too kindly to that.

I don't come down on the side of humanism, feminism or atheism, but I can't bring myself to feel anything but sympathy for someone in those circumstances. If she didn't need the money, or didn't have cancer, or ended up blowing the money on a trip to Vegas, that would be a scam. Asking people for money for a purpose, and using the money for that purpose is not a scam in any reasonable sense of the term.

 

[Foolmewunz]

I certainly wouldn't want to be unsympathetic to someone under those circumstances. It's the personalisation and stigmatising that's so offensive in the A+ movement, and I wouldn't want to take part in the same thing. A+ is a trivial thing in the world - cancer is a big deal.

Ditto this.

And as I said, we probably have a lot more in common with even the most annoying ideologues at Atheism + than, say, the Phelps family. And I'd even give a Phelps a break if they were raising emergency funds for cancer treatment, I think.

My argument (in theory - I haven't shared your pleasure in joining up) with them is that they are creating a new standard of Orwellian discourse; all this concentration on their pet words and expressions. Oh, that and the Pol Pot school of re-education, of course.

 

[Badger3k]

And that still doesn't say "scam". I know of someone here who had a temporary need and it was posted in Forum Community. Within thirty six hours, she'd raised the money she needed - and she thought she was going to be hustling for weeks to get it together. Were we "scammed"? (I wasn't because I wanted to contribute and she sent me a PM telling me that it was no longer necessary.)

We may disagree with some of these folks as to tenor and specificity of the direction we want to go, but most of us probably come down on the side of humanism, feminism and atheism. You're slandering "one of us", and "the rest of us" may not take too kindly to that.

Well, I have to take back something I said - it didn't take days. It took one day to make much more than she needed to take care of mortgage and expenses for a couple of months. That's some marketing.

As for "us" - who the hell is that? Seriously, the only thing I may share in common with her, from what little I know of her, is that we both lack belief in a god. That's all. If you think that makes you an "us", then that's your problem. She is an "us" in, I am assuming, being an American Citizen and a human being, but that's as far as it goes. This whole "atheist movement" crap is just that - crap. There are a multitude of atheist movements, and every one has different agendas and concerns. I'll agree with humanism, and see no reason to specifically target one of the many varieties of feminism over humanity in general. But that's about it - the methods of her and her friends sets them as allies of those who are against free speech and simple logic and skepticism, so I have nothing but disgust for them.

If you think you helped someone out, then think whatever you want. Why my opinion would matter to you is beyond me, the same as your threat is laughable to me. If you want to play "internet tough guy", play with yourself.

 

[Foolmewunz]

Well, I have to take back something I said - it didn't take days. It took one day to make much more than she needed to take care of mortgage and expenses for a couple of months. That's some marketing.

Yeah, spells "scam" to me. You got her. Way to go!

As for "us" - who the hell is that? Seriously, the only thing I may share in common with her, from what little I know of her, is that we both lack belief in a god. That's all. If you think that makes you an "us", then that's your problem. She is an "us" in, I am assuming, being an American Citizen and a human being, but that's as far as it goes.

I actually don't propose to speak for the population of the USA, but why do you think this is an American issue? There are a number of members here - quite a large number - who are not Americans. And I'm not speaking for Atheism on the whole. I included atheism as part of what many of "us" believe or favor. That would be a raging clue.

"Us" referred to the many of people I've known here on the JREF Forums for years. I was referring to these boards. That's where the discussion is taking place. Those of "us" who find fault with Rebecca or PZ or Dawkins or even DJ or Randi are generally arguing about a specific item or an issue of the medium being the message. Much is style v substance, in my opinion (e.g. Elevatorgate - an amazing circumstance wherein no one was wrong but everyone proceeded to waste a year proving otherwise).

This whole "atheist movement" crap is just that - crap. There are a multitude of atheist movements, and every one has different agendas and concerns. I'll agree with humanism, and see no reason to specifically target one of the many varieties of feminism over humanity in general. But that's about it - the methods of her and her friends sets them as allies of those who are against free speech and simple logic and skepticism, so I have nothing but disgust for them.

Well, more power to you. I have neither the time nor inclination to get so angry about this. You do realize, though, that your dedicated single line of thinking would fit right in with the ideological approach over at Atheism Plus? Most of what we're discussing here is their intransigence and demagoguery. It's no more right coming from you than it is from them.

If you think you helped someone out, then think whatever you want. Why my opinion would matter to you is beyond me, the same as your threat is laughable to me. If you want to play "internet tough guy", play with yourself.

I have no idea what this is about or where it comes from. What threat? The fact that I pointed out that you were possibly going to ruffle some feathers? We do that sort of thing all the time. We then continue to discuss and/or argue. If you're itching for a fight, I'm your boy, but that's not because I have anything in your comments that I actually want to argue about, but just on general principle because when I moved to Thailand I no longer have my pet Jehovah's Witness to have meaningless arguments with.

One of the things newbs really ought to do (right after we send you back to the Education Camps) is check out the posting history of the people they're talking to. I'm the last person in the world (well, maybe second to last) on these forums to accuse of picking fights. More often than not, I'm the "calm down boyz, here have an olive branch" kind of poster.

 

[Orphia Nay]

I thought I'd have a look at a random recent thread from A+.

I picked this one:

http://atheismplus.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2190

To sum up:

Keen supporter starts an Atheism+ Facebook group, and decides to tell the forum about it.

Gets abuse and accusations of "privileged" hurled at him by multiple members.

One person sticks up for him, is abused and then decides to leave, and their final post is deleted.

Way to boost the group's numbers in spades, non-gender-specific organisms!

 

[chillzero]

Well, I have to take back something I said - it didn't take days. It took one day to make much more than she needed to take care of mortgage and expenses for a couple of months. That's some marketing.

And ...? It's not a scam to ask for money and make it clear that it is for your own personal use. Not for charity. Not for services rendered. Not to keep membership, or improve membership on a forum. Not for a purchase. Just to be used by you, personally. It's not a scam, because people have the choice to disbelieve the requirement, and not contribute, or to believe it, and contribute (or not) - and even to not care either way and still contribute (or not).

You have been signed up here for a year. You have missed several fundraising efforts here at JREF for members in need, so may not appreciate the sense of community people sometimes have with those they simply share some internet banter space with. Calling such requests scams without evidence that some kind of promise has been made and will not be honoured is steering close to libel.

 

[chillzero]

I thought I'd have a look at a random recent thread from A+.

I picked this one:

http://atheismplus.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2190

To sum up:

Keen supporter starts an Atheism+ Facebook group, and decides to tell the forum about it.

Gets abuse and accusations of "privileged" hurled at him by multiple members.

One person sticks up for him, is abused and then decides to leave, and their final post is deleted.

Way to boost the group's numbers in spades, non-gender-specific organisms!

Also notice how several of laughing coyote's posts have been edited to remove insults "at mod request". Not edited by a mod and given a warning for abusive behaviour ... not warned for not helping keep it a 'safe' community' ... but nudged in private, allowed to edit it, and still there with other abuse left in anyway.

Compare and contrast with treatment of Gloves, and westprog.

 

[Orphia Nay]

Also notice how several of laughing coyote's posts have been edited to remove insults "at mod request". Not edited by a mod and given a warning for abusive behaviour ... not warned for not helping keep it a 'safe' community' ... but nudged in private, allowed to edit it, and still there with other abuse left in anyway.

Compare and contrast with treatment of Gloves, and westprog.

Exactly! A+Bullies at work.

 

[squealpiggy]

I thought I'd have a look at a random recent thread from A+.

I picked this one:

http://atheismplus.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2190

To sum up:

Keen supporter starts an Atheism+ Facebook group, and decides to tell the forum about it.

Gets abuse and accusations of "privileged" hurled at him by multiple members.

One person sticks up for him, is abused and then decides to leave, and their final post is deleted.

Way to boost the group's numbers in spades, non-gender-specific organisms!

Wow. That's amazing.

 

[ponderingturtle]

Outside of discussing trans issues specifically, why would they?

Very few. But why shouldn't there be a public dialog on trans issues?

I am not trying to make sense of the way A+ is using it, but it a useful term that makes sense to exist.

 

[Humes fork]

I thought I'd have a look at a random recent thread from A+.

I picked this one:

http://atheismplus.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2190

To sum up:

Keen supporter starts an Atheism+ Facebook group, and decides to tell the forum about it.

Gets abuse and accusations of "privileged" hurled at him by multiple members.

One person sticks up for him, is abused and then decides to leave, and their final post is deleted.

Way to boost the group's numbers in spades, non-gender-specific organisms!

These people are nuts.

 

[Humes fork]

Well, I have to take back something I said - it didn't take days. It took one day to make much more than she needed to take care of mortgage and expenses for a couple of months. That's some marketing.

As for "us" - who the hell is that? Seriously, the only thing I may share in common with her, from what little I know of her, is that we both lack belief in a god. That's all. If you think that makes you an "us", then that's your problem. She is an "us" in, I am assuming, being an American Citizen and a human being, but that's as far as it goes. This whole "atheist movement" crap is just that - crap. There are a multitude of atheist movements, and every one has different agendas and concerns. I'll agree with humanism, and see no reason to specifically target one of the many varieties of feminism over humanity in general. But that's about it - the methods of her and her friends sets them as allies of those who are against free speech and simple logic and skepticism, so I have nothing but disgust for them.

If you think you helped someone out, then think whatever you want. Why my opinion would matter to you is beyond me, the same as your threat is laughable to me. If you want to play "internet tough guy", play with yourself.

What’s Best for Atheism Isn’t What’s Best

Sums up the thing about atheism IMO.

 

[Mr. Scott]

I thought I'd have a look at a random recent thread from A+.

I picked this one:

http://atheismplus.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2190

To sum up:

Keen supporter starts an Atheism+ Facebook group, and decides to tell the forum about it.

Gets abuse and accusations of "privileged" hurled at him by multiple members.

One person sticks up for him, is abused and then decides to leave, and their final post is deleted.

Way to boost the group's numbers in spades, non-gender-specific organisms!

That looks like the A+ establishment people there are the trolls. Judging by that thread, it is a nest of trolls.

 

[Mr. Scott]

Undocumented reason to be banned from the A+ forum: Suspicion of intent to troll.

 

[Badger3k]

I have no idea what this is about or where it comes from. What threat? The fact that I pointed out that you were possibly going to ruffle some feathers? We do that sort of thing all the time. We then continue to discuss and/or argue. If you're itching for a fight, I'm your boy, but that's not because I have anything in your comments that I actually want to argue about, but just on general principle because when I moved to Thailand I no longer have my pet Jehovah's Witness to have meaningless arguments with.

One of the things newbs really ought to do (right after we send you back to the Education Camps) is check out the posting history of the people they're talking to. I'm the last person in the world (well, maybe second to last) on these forums to accuse of picking fights. More often than not, I'm the "calm down boyz, here have an olive branch" kind of poster.

When you phrase it in the form of a threat, where 'slandering" somone who is "us" (so Greta is a member here?) and say that there will be repercussions and I may be kicked off of the "us"....yeah. No threat. You sounded just like my students when they get written up.

As for the posting history, again I have to ask why I should care? I know nobody here in real life, and nobody here is more than an anonymous commenter. I'll judge what is posted - whether you're a saint or mother theresa in other threads doesn't matter. You made the same threat that these Plusser idiots do - I'll be ejected for saying something you disagree with. Wow. I have read here for a bit but never bothered to comment, but this train wreck is, for some reality-tv-show reason, keeps my amazed by the depths these people will go through.