As she champions Illegal Immigrants, is AOC a threat to National Security?

[The Shrike]

I don't know why this question is directed at me.

It's the topic of the thread and what we're supposed to be discussing.

 

[The Shrike]

... labor shortages. ... I have trouble believing that people actually believe it. If you do, you didn't come to this conclusion on your own. You've been gaslit, plain and simple.

As mentioned, the only conclusion on this I could come to on my own is anecdotal and based on career advisement for thousands of university students over the past 16 or so years. They're totally cool to work as loggers, ranchers, in the oil fields, etc., but not once have I had a student say they wanted to work as a line cook or a migrant laborer or in a chicken processing plant, etc.

So my "gaslit" impression has been formed from reading and listening to employers explain their motivations for hiring illegal immigrants, and from the anecdotal experience of career counseling students who have no interest in working the types of jobs that often attract illegal workers.

What explanations have you read for why employers hire illegal aliens?

 

[Robin]

USAian is not a word.

It's a perfectly cromulent word.

 

[Baylor]

What explanations have you read for why employers hire illegal aliens?

It's not the one day Americans woke up and all decided, "I don't want to work in these industries, we need illegal aliens to save us." As illegal aliens poured in, wages in these industries suppressed, the ethnic and linguistic fractionalization increased, making the conditions more unbearable for Americans to work in for lower wages. This is the reason why employers, "can't find an American to hire." As I stated before, Americans will do this work if adequately compensated. So no, illegal aliens are not solving a problem. Your logic pretzel creates a solution for a problem that never existed before.

 

[PhantomWolf]

Like rape and murder?

These are threats to National Security?

The act of coming here illegal is ya know, illegal.

You are aware that most Undocumented Immigrants actually enter the US legally and then overstay their visas, right?

And with enough Covid here already, a greater threat.

Yeah, as you point out, the USA has the highest infected numbers in the world (besides perhaps China and Russia since they are likely hiding their real numbers) so in truth Undocumented people are actually more likely risking themselves by entering the US, than the other way around.

USAian is not a word.

word
/wəːd/

noun
1. a single distinct meaningful element of speech or writing, used with others (or sometimes alone) to form a sentence and typically shown with a space on either side when written or printed.

Seems to me that it meets the definition of a word.

It's a perfectly cromulent word.

Hopefully he will learn to embiggen his vocabulary.

 

[smartcooky]

Hopefully he will learn to embiggen his vocabulary.

Indeed, a concominant consequence that would indubitably be most serendipitous!

 

[Mumbles]

With the pandemic here, this would be the time for her to shift priorities and think about defending the Homeland first. You'd think.

Actually, she's currently pointing out the outsized number of black, Latino, and indigenous people impacted by the virus, due to issues like obesity (food deserts), overpopulation (due to redlining), respiratory diseases (environmental racism) high blood pressure (food deserts, dealing with racists), and plain old second-rate treatment (medical racism - even Serena Williams had to all but strangle her doctors for an MRI when she delivered her child for appropriate treatment).

As far as I can tell, for extreme right wingers, Latina women are not considered acceptable miscegenation. South-East Asian women appear to be, as well as Slavic women. Thus "not pretty".

Pretty much. Might want to look up the "Jezebel " stereotype, if you want to know hiw they justify outright violent rape.

you guys are the ones obsessed with "brown people", all that was suggested was we dont need more potential covid havers here when California as an examples hospitals are already over taxed. If anything you guys are showing total disregard for the healthcare workers.

...You aren't fooling anybody, except possibly yourself.

 

[applecorped]

 

[newyorkguy]

...What explanations have you read for why employers hire illegal aliens?

Here's one I read on NPR:

Cooking chicken in Lynn's restaurant kitchen is not as hard as processing chickens in an agro-business plant, but nonetheless she says it's challenging finding workers. "It's hard work," she says. "You have to be able to stand on your feet all day. It's not a good paying job." She pays dishwashers $11.50 an hour, $16 for cooks. That's more than the federal minimum wage, but they get no insurance, vacations or sick pay.

This woman says all the restaurants on her area use undocumented workers. That Americans seldom apply and those that do have been problems.

"We put ads on Craigslist, Facebook, in the window, in the newspaper," she says. "The people that come in and apply to take our jobs will show up for one shift. They will not be clean. They will not probably be sober. They will ask for their money at the end of the shift and then they will not be back for the second shift." Link

 

[Mumbles]

Well, let's be honest, you've always used Jim Crow-era stereotypes to justify the murders of unarmed black people just walking around (calling the victims "thugs"), so it's no shock you'd be applaud further deaths among black people...

 

[newyorkguy]

What's tough to take from posters who make a huge deal over undocumented workers is their indifference to Donald Trump. Trump businesses have been using undocumented workers for over forty years. Okay, I understand most of these posters support Trump, but at least acknowledge reality. But they won't. It seems like it's all a farce.

Below is a typical news story, from last August.

The Washington Post reports that the Trump Organization currently employs a “roving crew of Latin American employees” to perform masonry and maintenance work at his winery and various golf clubs around the country. For almost two decades, the group has been comprised of workers who came into the US illegally—the penalty for which the president seemingly believes should be death—according to two former crew members. Another one, who still works for Trump, told reporters Joshua Partlow and David A. Fahrenthold that remains the case today. President Trump “doesn’t want undocumented people in the country,” said Jorge Castro, an Ecuadorian immigrant without legal status who left the company last spring after nine years. “But at his properties, he still has them.” He added: “If you’re a good worker, papers don’t matter.” Link

 

[Garrison]

What's tough to take from posters who make a huge deal over undocumented workers is their indifference to Donald Trump. Trump businesses have been using undocumented workers for over forty years. Okay, I understand most of these posters support Trump, but at least acknowledge reality. But they won't. It seems like it's all a farce.

Below is a typical news story, from last August.

That's because they are entirely focused on punishing the immigrants, not the people who hire them. They are happy to enjoy the fruits of illegal immigration while demanding the immigrant are treated in subhuman manner.

 

[Belz...]

no, just additional patients our hospitals don't need at the moment.

Oh, so all this time, the hate towards brown people was for the sake of the healthcare system, then?

you guys are the ones obsessed with "brown people"

You're the one who made a thread about them. Should we ignore your threads from now on?

 

[newyorkguy]

That's because they are entirely focused on punishing the immigrants, not the people who hire them...

That seems pretty obvious, but at the same time, if you make an argument before a group of intelligent people -- and this thread was started because of unstated actions Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez has taken -- you have to be realistic enough to be convincing. Donald Trump never had a problem with undocumented workers and he's the anti-illegal immigration president. What's wrong with that picture? That's why I try not to respond to some of these posters: either they're extremely stupid or this is all a game. Who knows who they are or what they really think. More importantly, who cares?

From AOC to Fox newscaster Laura Ingraham:

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez tweeted:
Didn’t you just put a doctor on your show who faked their employment at Lenox Hill hospital and touted a COVID “treatment” that you tweeted & Twitter had to remove because a man may have died trying to self-administer it?

I’m sorry, why are you on TV again? Link

Where's the Laura Ingraham 'outrage' thread?

 

[Babbylonian]

From AOC to Fox newscaster Laura Ingraham:


Where's the Laura Ingraham 'outrage' thread?

Dude. Clearly, the problem is AOC's tweet and not Laura Ingraham's wildly irresponsible television program.

 

[newyorkguy]

I saw a segment from, I think it was Bill Maher, showing the Fox talking heads -- Hannity, Dobbs, Pirro, Rivera, others I didn't recognize -- from a month ago. Not just downplaying the seriousness of the coronavirus, but ridiculing the potential danger. Then a few days ago, Sean Hannity solemnly stating, he had always taken the virus seriously. It's mindblowing the way these people can lie. Even when they KNOW there are video clips of them saying exactly what they now swear, "I never said that." I don't know how they do it. And still sleep at night. They must have to get super-blasted!

I never watch Fox News but from what I gather, I think Tucker Carlson at least, may be rethinking his career choices. Maybe getting to the point where he's deciding, "I can't do this anymore."

 

[The Shrike]

It's not the one day Americans woke up and all decided, "I don't want to work in these industries, we need illegal aliens to save us."

It kind of is, though. Here's an analysis that supports your view that there is no labor shortage. There's very little in this I disagree with. We have a shortage of Americans willing to work in certain industries for the wages those industries supply. The analysis provides a simple solution: raise those wages. I agree 100%. You pay someone $15/hour to cut up chickens or pick strawberries and there will be plenty of American citizens to fill those jobs.

There's no logic pretzel on my end. You might check, however, on the folks who are simultaneously 1) fighting against the notion of a national living minimum wage and 2) going out of their way to punish illegal immigrants instead of the employers luring them here.

 

[pgwenthold]

It kind of is, though. Here's an analysis that supports your view that there is no labor shortage. There's very little in this I disagree with. We have a shortage of Americans willing to work in certain industries for the wages those industries supply. The analysis provides a simple solution: raise those wages. I agree 100%. You pay someone $15/hour to cut up chickens or pick strawberries and there will be plenty of American citizens to fill those jobs.

There's no logic pretzel on my end. You might check, however, on the folks who are simultaneously 1) fighting against the notion of a national living minimum wage and 2) going out of their way to punish illegal immigrants instead of the employers luring them here.

The whole "we can't find domestic workers to do the jobs" excuse from employers leaves out an important second part: "...at the wages we are willing to pay.

They jump to the conclusion "....therefore we need to hire immigrants" instead of the obvious, "...pay more."

Yeah, they will complain about how they can't afford to pay such wages, but that's just economics. If your revenues aren't sufficient to cover your costs of production, then you have a failed business. That's capitalism, right?

 

[Garrison]

The whole "we can't find domestic workers to do the jobs" excuse from employers leaves out an important second part: "...at the wages we are willing to pay.

They jump to the conclusion "....therefore we need to hire immigrants" instead of the obvious, "...pay more."

Yeah, they will complain about how they can't afford to pay such wages, but that's just economics. If your revenues aren't sufficient to cover your costs of production, then you have a failed business. That's capitalism, right?

Unless you are a bank of course, in which case you gamble until you lose then expect taxpayers to bail you out.

 

[Babbylonian]

Unless you are a bank of course, in which case you gamble until you lose then expect taxpayers to bail you out.

This applies to every large corporation. Those in the most trouble right now are the ones that spent their profits for the last several years buying their own stock, inflating the prices so that those at the top (the ones with stock options) could make big money while depleting their ability to weather any crisis. Now their hands are out and, of course, Republicans are willing to put as much money into those hands as they possibly can, with little to no oversight.

Once they're bailed out, they'll continue to tell us how increasing the minimum wage will destroy them.