As she champions Illegal Immigrants, is AOC a threat to National Security?

[newyorkguy]

The ironic part about Trump supporters being extremely anti-illegal immigration is their 'God-Emperor' has the absolute worst record on this of any political leader I'm aware of. Trump's record on hiring undocumented workers goes back forty years! If you know anything about Trump, you would know he could care less.

It was demonstrated there were undocumented workers on the job during construction of Trump's Washington hotel in 2016 while he was running for president. He played that off as 'the sub-contractor hired them,' but responsible employers require sub-contractors to certify their workforce is in compliance. And then check to make sure they are. The bottom line with Trump is, he probably doesn't care because he thinks hiring undocumented workers will save him some money.

I remember reading an interview, back in 2016, with a lawyer who was involved in Trump's first big Manhattan project back in the 1970s. Demolition had begun on the old building and the lawyer visited the job site. There he discovered, many members of the work crew were here illegally. He said he immediately contacted Trump. The project involved getting a local property tax abatement and some grant funds for urban investment. He explained to Trump that these government agencies were undoubtedly going to do some oversight and if they discovered undocumented workers were being used it could kill the project. Trump maintained it was the sub-contractor who hired them.

• Lawyer: Okay but you're aware of it.
• Trump: No I'm not.

Trump's golf courses, directly run by the Trump organization, his own sons involved in day-to-day management, have been proven to have a long history of hiring undocumented workers.

But AOC is the problem.

 

[ponderingturtle]

The ironic part about Trump supporters being extremely anti-illegal immigration is their 'God-Emperor' has the absolute worst record on this of any political leader I'm aware of. Trump's record on hiring undocumented workers goes back forty years! If you know anything about Trump, you would know he could care less.

It was demonstrated there were undocumented workers on the job during construction of Trump's Washington hotel in 2016 while he was running for president. He played that off as 'the sub-contractor hired them,' but responsible employers require sub-contractors to certify their workforce is in compliance. And then check to make sure they are. The bottom line with Trump is, he probably doesn't care because he thinks hiring undocumented workers will save him some money.

I remember reading an interview, back in 2016, with a lawyer who was involved in Trump's first big Manhattan project back in the 1970s. Demolition had begun on the old building and the lawyer visited the job site. There he discovered, many members of the work crew were here illegally. He said he immediately contacted Trump. The project involved getting a local property tax abatement and some grant funds for urban investment. He explained to Trump that these government agencies were undoubtedly going to do some oversight and if they discovered undocumented workers were being used it could kill the project. Trump maintained it was the sub-contractor who hired them.

• Lawyer: Okay but you're aware of it.
• Trump: No I'm not.

Trump's golf courses, directly run by the Trump organization, his own sons involved in day-to-day management, have been proven to have a long history of hiring undocumented workers.

But AOC is the problem.

Because the problem is worrying about their lives, not giving them jobs.

 

[ChristianProgressive]

National Security, no. Sanity, yes.

Using "national security" to justify naked bigotry and racism neither makes us safer nor is sane.

Funny how conservatives blasted the phrase "never let a good crisis go to waste" yet look at how you jump right in there with the virus...

 

[newyorkguy]

The ironic part about Trump supporters being extremely anti-illegal immigration is their 'God-Emperor' has the absolute worst record on this of any political leader I'm aware of. Trump's record on hiring undocumented workers goes back forty years! If you know anything about Trump, you would know he could care less...

I think the basic problem with Trump supporters is one of advocating for cruelty, as Joe Morgue has put it. The ones that post here make that pretty clear. Though because none of them, so far as I know, have signed a notarized affidavit to that effect maybe I can't say that?

Trump hiring undocumented workers to possibly save some money and being protected for the most part from workers' comp claims, injury lawsuits, etc. appeals to his followers. So long as Trump is just using people, and never respecting them or doing anything to protect them, then employing undocumented workers is fine.

It's really a shame that some people are that way. An obvious reason, I think, that they all resist being drawn into any kind of give-and-take rational discussion. That's a common observation you see everywhere, from Facebook to Quora to ISF. Snipe and disappear.

 

[Leftus]

Since she has exactly zero authority to accomplish any of her stupid ideas, I'm not sure how she could be a threat to national security. Without looking, all she has done is run her fool mouth. She hasn't even put forward any legislation beyond the Green New Deal. And that wasn't really legislation, but a wish list.

Her theatrics are just that, theatrics. Without authority, it accomplishes nothing. Without action, there is no harm. So, no, she is not, by definition, any threat. Even if her priorities don't match mine, and they don't, that doesn't make her a threat. Shouting from the floor of the house doesn't create legislation. May get the microphone turned off, but accomplishes nothing.

 

[BobTheCoward]

Wait, AOC was the one complaining about illegal immigrants being brought into NYC during the virus.

 

[Venom]

Wait, AOC was the one complaining about illegal immigrants being brought into NYC during the virus.

She was angry that illegal immigrants were still being detained across the country during the pandemic.

 

[BobTheCoward]

She was angry that illegal immigrants were still being detained across the country during the pandemic.

Here was her tweet

Last night on a tip-off call I headed to LaGuardia airport & intercepted
@ICEgov
transporting several children to NYC, an outbreak hub, via commercial air.

If the Pentagon has halted all domestic travel for military, why is ICE transporting unaccompanied children in a pandemic?

No mention of detention

 

[Baylor]

Hilarious the way AOC gets under their skin. Sorry bro, she already has a date for the prom.

Now if there's something specific to discuss here at the International Skeptics Forum, the way to do that is to follow these steps:
1) Describe that specific thing.
2) Explain what you think is wrong with said thing.
3) Cite your sources.

That takes a little more work than "Hot lady said something I don't like!", but it'll make for a more enlightening thread.

1) She tweeted she disagreed with the stimulus package that includes immigrants with a valid SSN. She thinks it should include anyone with ITIN.
2) Illegal aliens should not have access to resources citizens pool for themselves. Devalues our already ****** social welfare programs.
3) find her tweets yourself
4) AOC is not pretty.

 

[Baylor]

I agree. With America having the highest numbers of infections and deaths in the world, they really shouldn't be sending people over the border to spread it to other countries....

As of today, Italy and Spain have the highest death count. Of course that discounts China, for those gullible enough to believe its numbers.

...wait, that might not be what you meant.

 

[Craig4]

AOC needs to be expelled from Congress and censured.

Why, which laws did she break? Did she violate House ethics rules seriously enough for censure? Chapter and verse please.

 

[zooterkin]

Many posts moved to AAH.

Please keep to the topic of the thread, rather than sniping at each other. Thank you.

Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: zooterkin

 

[catsmate]

As she champions Illegal Immigrants, is AOC a threat to National Security?

No. But then most USAians, especially on the right, are ignorant of what "treason" actually means, as opposed to merely refusing to kow-tow to Trump.

 

[The Shrike]

1) She tweeted she disagreed with the stimulus package that includes immigrants with a valid SSN. She thinks it should include anyone with ITIN.

Thanks. So first-term US Rep issues a Tweet. Got it. Probably not a national security threat. Next?

2) Illegal aliens should not have access to resources citizens pool for themselves. Devalues our already ****** social welfare programs.

Okay, now you've provided an opinion and we can discuss it as we're supposed to here at the International Skeptics Forum. Inspired by the not-dead-yet-ghost of James Randi, this will be a great example of using critical thinking to address the issue as I have no opinion (yet) of the issue Rep. Ocasio-Cortez was addressing.

First, I will acknowledge my bias and do my best to keep it in check as we discuss. Please call me out if I slip up: If Ocasio-Cortez is addressing some issue, it's probably to promote something to benefit workers and the more vulnerable in our society and something undesirable to corporations and wealthy folks. That's my political lean too, i.e., to err on the side of poor people compared to corporations. So that is the bias I will attempt to leave at the door. Please feel free to acknowledge your own.

Now then let's parse this:

Illegal aliens should not have access to ..."

Not everyone who has an ITIN is an illegal alien. How should we address those US citizens and other legal residents who file taxes with an ITIN instead of a SSN?

... resources citizens pool for themselves."

Do citizens pool resources for themselves through our taxes? I pay my taxes and those are pooled into a federal budget that funds all manner of programs from which I derive no benefit. Even things I rather vehemently oppose get funded with a tiny fraction of what I pay in taxes. As illegal aliens do pay taxes, are there any benefits for which they should be eligible, i.e., that they've pooled for themselves?

More specifically, which resources do you mean? If we could identify the illegal aliens who have paid taxes using the ITIN, for which specific benefits in the stimulus package should they be ineligible?

As to the apparent reasoning behind the opinion you expressed:

Devalues our already ****** social welfare programs.

Again, which programs do you mean? Are they even included in the stimulus package? Wow, SIX asterisks – that sounds pretty bad. I assume you mean that there are social welfare programs that are underfunded relative to the need for them, but I'm not quite sure. If there are specific programs woefully underfunded and underserving their need, is it clear as to why that is? Is it because illegal aliens are getting those benefits without paying taxes?

I'm not sure that's resolved. "The Congressional Budget Office reported in 2007 that "the tax revenues that unauthorized immigrants generate for state and local governments do not offset the total cost of services provided to them" but "in aggregate and over the long term, tax revenues of all types generated by immigrants—both legal and unauthorized—exceed the cost of the services they use."

That's a net benefit, not a cost. It also doesn't include the generalized benefits of doing jobs citizens aren't willing to do, keeping labor costs down, purchasing goods and services in our communities, etc. That's to not to argue that we don't have an illegal immigration problem in the US, but I am unconvinced that we're worse off economically in this country because of it.

So... based on my reading it seems that the stickiest widget here is the ITIN. Yes, there are illegal aliens who pay taxes using an ITIN, but there are also a lot of legal folks and US citizens using ITINs. If we deny stimulus benefits to folks with ITINs just so we can make sure that illegal aliens don't benefit, we'll also be denying those benefits to taxpayers – including US citizens – who don't match your criterion for denial. By law, we can't know whose ITIN is whose. On this point alone it seems to me that we should include taxpayers using ITINs s eligible for stimulus benefits.

 

[bruto]

1) She tweeted she disagreed with the stimulus package that includes immigrants with a valid SSN. She thinks it should include anyone with ITIN.
2) Illegal aliens should not have access to resources citizens pool for themselves. Devalues our already ****** social welfare programs.
3) find her tweets yourself
4) AOC is not pretty.

Aha! There's the problem. You should never listen to a woman unless you want to **** her.

Jesus Christ, man.

Edited by Agatha: 

edited for breach of rule 12

 

[kookbreaker]

4) AOC is not pretty.

Meaning she isn't one of those vapid blondes that Fox News churns out & replaces as they age for the viewers to drool over and obey.

 

[BobTheCoward]

2) Illegal aliens should not have access to resources citizens pool for themselves. Devalues our already ****** social welfare programs.

Even if it is a net benefit for those citizens to provide it to illegal aliens? Cut off your nose to spite your face?

 

[uke2se]

As far as I can tell, for extreme right wingers, Latina women are not considered acceptable miscegenation. South-East Asian women appear to be, as well as Slavic women. Thus "not pretty".

 

[rockysmith76]

Using "national security" to justify naked bigotry and racism neither makes us safer nor is sane.

Funny how conservatives blasted the phrase "never let a good crisis go to waste" yet look at how you jump right in there with the virus...

you guys are the ones obsessed with "brown people", all that was suggested was we dont need more potential covid havers here when California as an examples hospitals are already over taxed. If anything you guys are showing total disregard for the healthcare workers.

 

[rockysmith76]

No. But then most USAians, especially on the right, are ignorant of what "treason" actually means, as opposed to merely refusing to kow-tow to Trump.

USAian is not a word.