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Are You Conscious?

Are you concious?

  • Of course, what a stupid question

    Votes: 89 61.8%

  • Maybe

    Votes: 40 27.8%

  • No

    Votes: 15 10.4%
  • Total voters
    144
There's a new word floating around and I hadn't noticed. I must be half-asleep!

What's a "P-Zombie"? And is there any chance that I'm one?

Because it sounds kinda cool.
 
As I understand it a P-Zombie is a philosophical construct; an incoherent one, that is.

It's a human-thing which exhibits all the behaviours of a normal human, so that it is completely indistinguishable from a human, except it doesn't have a consciousness.

But since consciousness is infered from behaviour... if it has all the behaviours then it would be, by definition, conscious and therefore couldn't both have the behaviours and NOT the consciousness. Hence the incoherence.
 
Belz... said:
As I understand it a P-Zombie is a philosophical construct; an incoherent one, that is.

It's a human-thing which exhibits all the behaviours of a normal human, so that it is completely indistinguishable from a human, except it doesn't have a consciousness.

But since consciousness is infered from behaviour... if it has all the behaviours then it would be, by definition, conscious and therefore couldn't both have the behaviours and NOT the consciousness. Hence the incoherence.
Click to expand...

Fair to add that other's consciousnesses are what's inferred, not one's own. P-zombies are not necessarily incoherent.

Not that I really care about p-zombies... but their logical possibility is not precluded by your definition.

I know... it's a nitpick.
 
Belz... said:
Not sure I understand your objection. P-zombies were, of course, meant to describe other people, not yourself.
Click to expand...

To be clear we're not in the p-zombie world whose existence is all-important to the p-zombie argument.

That this zombie world can be coherently conceived is what matters to the argument.

Consciousness is not inferred from behavior in this zombie world.

Is the zombie world actually possible? I doubt it.
 
Frank Newgent said:
To be clear we're not in the p-zombie world whose existence is all-important to the p-zombie argument.

That this zombie world can be coherently conceived is what matters to the argument.

Consciousness is not inferred from behavior in this zombie world.

Is the zombie world actually possible? I doubt it.
Click to expand...

Is it logically impossible for something to have all the detectable external behaviours of something else, and have other, inaccessible behaviours and attributes?

Do all the same makes of suitcase have the same contents?
 
westprog said:
Is it logically impossible for something to have all the detectable external behaviours of something else, and have other, inaccessible behaviours and attributes?
Click to expand...

No... and I just disproved physicalism :D

Or so goes the argument more or less, right?
 
Frank Newgent said:
No... and I just disproved physicalism :D

Or so goes the argument more or less, right?
Click to expand...

Yes, if you don't think that the "essence" of human consciousness can be transferred, duplicated and preserved forever, you are in deep denial of science.
 
Yup. I'm a P-Zombie. Anyone else in?

(We've got a fight on our hands - those f-zombies are massing outside the gates, and we're all going to have to do a lot of moaning with outstretched arms if we're to see them off).
 
paximperium said:
If we use the most colloquial meaning of conscious, sure. Just being awake means conscious.

But you know well enough that is not what Malerin means when he asks this question since conscious is an exceedingly complex thing.
Click to expand...

Actually, I'm not familiar with Malerin's posting history.

But in any case, I can't see that there is any acceptable definition that would allow anyone posting here to respond "No".
 
I can never be sure if the outside world is real or even if it exists but I am 100% sure that I am conscious.
 
Luzz said:
I can never be sure if the outside world is real or even if it exists but I am 100% sure that I am conscious.
Click to expand...

Would you mind defining every word in that sentence for me, please, as well as the digits, punctuation, and that dots-and-slash thingie there?
 
Piggy said:
Actually, I'm not familiar with Malerin's posting history.

But in any case, I can't see that there is any acceptable definition that would allow anyone posting here to respond "No".
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My sophistry is so powerful I can cloud men's minds to the point they don't even know if they're conscious or not!

Who knows what qualia lurk in the minds of behavioralists? Malerin do! Muhahahaha!
 
Luzz said:
I can never be sure if the outside world is real or even if it exists but I am 100% sure that I am conscious.
Click to expand...

Actually you can't be; the solipsist could simply be imagining you as someone who feels that they are 100% sure they are conscious.
 
Piggy said:
Actually, I'm not familiar with Malerin's posting history.
Click to expand...
He has this weird belief that by defining conciousness into some undefinable magic, it will magic his pathetic god of the gaps into reality. His god seems to only exist in the realm of the stupid.
But in any case, I can't see that there is any acceptable definition that would allow anyone posting here to respond "No".
Click to expand...
Are you fully concious of the position of your joints? Propioception, pressure and stretch receptors and other sensations are subconciously processed and you are only conciously aware of the already processed data. Even then, you don't conciously know where all your limbs are at all time but it magically coodinates itself.

Is being awake and talking but having zero memory of the conversation you just have with someone concious?

Like I said. Conciousness is complex.
 
Malerin said:
My sophistry is so powerful I can cloud men's minds to the point they don't even know if they're conscious or not!

Who knows what qualia lurk in the minds of behavioralists? Malerin do! Muhahahaha!
Click to expand...
Yup. It is so astoudingly powerful that you can't even define what you are talking about. Bravo.
 
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