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Are You Conscious?

Are you concious?

  • Of course, what a stupid question

    Votes: 89 61.8%

  • Maybe

    Votes: 40 27.8%

  • No

    Votes: 15 10.4%
  • Total voters
    144
Piggy said:
What's flawed about the question?
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the lack of definition.
You can take any question you like and ask for a definition of every word in it, then ask for definitions of every word in those definitions, and so on forever.
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But I don't, so I don't know why you raise this objection.
Asking for definitions only makes sense when they're genuinely needed to answer the question.
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ok...
Since you haven't shown that any definition is needed in this case, you're dragging out a red herring.
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no, but boy would that help your case.
That is, unless you care to explain which particular definition you believe could sway the answer.
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no. The question I have asked is sufficient to show that the current definitions are not sufficient.
 
Piggy said:
What's wrong with it?

It's like asking "Are you alive?" Or "Are you a mammal?" Or "Have you been born?"

The answer is "Yes".
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Close to the first, not at all close to the second or third. Only close to the first if you asked the first of viruses or prions, where the question is less well defined. Even then, consciousness has more baggage than life, so although it is "like" asking these things, it is not at all the same as asking them.
 
Malerin said:
As Piggy asks, what definition of conscious can you think of that would make you doubt you're conscious?
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Altered. You know silly things like Delerium, Hallucinations, Fugue States or Dissociative States are a start. Silly things that like that.
 
Any definition involving qualia, or invoking dualism, or consciousness idealism, or the Cartesian theatre, or any of the other sillyness thrown around in these forums over the past few years would earn an answer in the negative.

Then too, I have apparently answered questions while I was asleep, more than once. I have no recollection of this, of course, but my answers apparently made sense much of the time. If you put this question to me while I was asleep, and I answered yes, would I be right? And if I answered no, would I be wrong?
 
Piggy said:
What's flawed about the question?

You can take any question you like and ask for a definition of every word in it, then ask for definitions of every word in those definitions, and so on forever.

Asking for definitions only makes sense when they're genuinely needed to answer the question.
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That's very amusing Piggy and about as dishonest as anything that Malerin tries to foist here.

Conciousness is about as ambiguous as the word "God". There are technical meanings to it along with a "common" definition. Malerin likes to use it a certain way, a way that apparently he refuses to define. I use it a very different way as well.

Your incredulity and ignorance is pretty irrelevant.
Since you haven't shown that any definition is needed in this case, you're dragging out a red herring.
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Psychotics are as concious as you are...or are they? What about the Delerium or drugged folk? How about a totally reponsive sleep walker who responds to your post? Can you tell when you are concious or whatever concious state you're in when you are in Dissociative State?

So tell me. When I take a drug called Versed now, write this entire reply down, go to sleep and wake up with zero memory of ever writing this down, was I concious?

Did I mention that Conciousness was complex? Because some folk like Malerin like to play semantic games or because you like nice little "common" meaning words to mean what YOU want does not change the relevance that he has not presented any definition ...in fact neither have you.
That is, unless you care to explain which particular definition you believe could sway the answer.
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My definition takes into account a whole bunch of subconcious and unconcious stimuli that you concious "mind" is not aware of. So using my definition, I'm not concious of a whole of host of things even when I'm concious.

But since I have no idea what the hell Malerin definition he is using, I can't really answer the question now can I?
 
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Piggy said:
"Just asking questions", I see.

And again with the "how did you learn" red herring, which has no bearing on the question.

By any commonly accepted definition of "conscious", the answer must be "yes" for anyone posting on this forum, so a definition is not required to answer the question.

...snip...
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I would say, in my language community, the commonly used definition is of the type "we can't define what pornography is but we can tell if something is pornographic or not when we see it" in other words it is based on observing behaviour and assigning a label to a whole spectrum of different and interacting behaviours in a not too coherent manner!
 
paximperium said:
Altered. You know silly things like Delerium, Hallucinations, Fugue States or Dissociative States are a start. Silly things that like that.
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FIrst of all, those aren't definitions of consciousness. Those are examples of conscious disorders. That's like saying, beware of people asking "Are you hungry?" because they really mean "Are you bulemic?"!

If your claim is that people are taking "Are you conscious?" to mean "Are you in a dissociative state?" then I could why people would answer NO. Unfortunately, those same people would have to answer YES to the follow-up question: Are you a complete idiot for believing "Are you conscious?" means the same as "Are you in a fugue state?".

Let it go, Pax. People are being stubbornly obtuse here for some stupid reason. It has nothing to do with definitions.
 
Malerin said:
FIrst of all, those aren't definitions of consciousness. Those are examples of conscious disorders. That's like saying, beware of people asking "Are you hungry?" because they really mean "Are you bulemic?"!

If your claim is that people are taking "Are you conscious?" to mean "Are you in a dissociative state?" then I could why people would answer NO. Unfortunately, those same people would have to answer YES to the follow-up question: Are you a complete idiot for believing "Are you conscious?" means the same as "Are you in a fugue state?".
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No. The question would be "COULD you be in fugue state?" The answer would be "maybe" since it would be impossible for your current "concious" self to tell.
Let it go, Pax. People are being stubbornly obtuse here for some stupid reason. It has nothing to do with definitions.
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No. People in a Fugue State or Dissociated State would answer whatever the original individual would have answered but would not be concious as per MY definition. They would be "concious" in every way per the "common" definition. They are awake, they talk, they respond. They are able to access memories. Don't blame me if your lack of definition makes it a dumb question.

Would you like to provide your definition one day?
 
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Piggy said:
What's wrong with it?

It's like asking "Are you alive?" Or "Are you a mammal?" Or "Have you been born?"

The answer is "Yes".
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The problem I have with it is that I don't know of a coherent definition of consciousness with which to answer the question.

If he's just asking "are you awake" or, "are you aware of some particular thing" then that's easy to answer. But I don't think he's asking either of those questions.

If he's asking "are you conscious, but not of any particular thing" then I honestly don't know what that means.

You think you do and you think it's obvious, but I disagree, and your insistence that it's obvious isn't helping to demonstrate that to me.
 
Oh yes, Piggy or Malerin. I'll help you out because I'm so nice.
I'm going to use the most simple medical definition of "conscious".
Please point to the area of this chart when you mean "conscious" and I will answer the OP.
MormannKochNeuralCorrelatesOfConsciousness2.jpg
 
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Belz... said:
Which common definition would that be ?
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The psychological one?..no, the common one?..no, the philsophical one?..no, the medical one?..no, the neuroscience one?..no, the Artificial Intelligence one?..no etc etc etc.
 
Malerin said:
As Piggy asks, what definition of conscious can you think of that would make you doubt you're conscious?
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Premature fuel combustion resulting in a power loss, compression detonation, or pre-ignition of fuel in the power stroke.
 
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