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Are dolphins stupid?

FireGarden

Philosopher
FireGarden
Joined
Aug 13, 2002
Messages
5,047
Are Dolphin's stupid?

The scientific and marine conservation communities were divided yesterday in response to a South African academic's research showing dolphins are less intelligent than lab rats or goldfish.

The study, by the University of the Witwatersrand's Paul Manger, claims the large brains of marine mammals such as dolphins and whales are to help cope with being warm-blooded in cold water and not a sign of intelligence.



[...] Geneticist Dr Bill Sherwin, from the University of NSW, said groups of dolphins now being studied showed the most complex social behaviour outside the human realm.

[...] "When you watch dolphins interacting in groups, it's like watching office politics. The male alliances constantly change - it must take some sort of brain capacity to do that sort of thing."
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I'd heard dolphins make particular sounds for particular individuals. (Called "names" when applied to people). But maybe I misheard.
 
so if they're dumb can we eat them now?

They look kinda tasty.....
 
Well, if they were smart they wouldn't get caught in tuna nets...

At least that was the argument in one of the news articles I read.
 
Futurama said:
Bender: Who wants dolphin?
Leela: Dolphin? But dolphins are intelligent.
Bender: Not this one. He blew all his money on instant lottery tickets.
Fry: OK.
Leela: Oh, OK.
Amy: That's different.
Farnsworth: Good, good.
Leela: Pass the blowhole.
Amy: Can I have a fluke?
Hermes: Hey, quit hogging the bottle-nose.
Farnsworth: Toss me the speech centre of the brain!
Click to expand...
;)
FireGarden said:
Well, if they were smart they wouldn't get caught in tuna nets...

At least that was the argument in one of the news articles I read.
Click to expand...
[South Park] And they won't live in igloos [/South Park]
 
If this research holds up, the widespread belief that dolhins are intelligent, even in scientific communities, could be one of the most dramatic examples of our tendency to project human traits and behaviors on animals (such as calling what primates do speech instead of learned behavior for treats, ans reading linguistic intelligence into dogs responding to behavioral cues).
 
We should have guess by their perpetual smiles. Would an intelligent lifeform be that happy?
 
Dolphins....

"...killing fellow animals in droves"
"...slashing away with rows of sharp teeth"
"...bludgeon porpoises to death by the hundreds"
"...murderous urges unrelated to the need for food"
"...recurring acts of infanticide"

New York Times, 6. July, 1999
 
CFLarsen said:
Dolphins....

"...killing fellow animals in droves"
"...slashing away with rows of sharp teeth"
"...bludgeon porpoises to death by the hundreds"
"...murderous urges unrelated to the need for food"
"...recurring acts of infanticide"

New York Times, 6. July, 1999
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They'd fit right into our species, it would appear.
 
It's not anything new to think that dolphins aren't smart. From my understanding they are smarter than a dog and not as smart as a monkey. It is entirely misleading to compare their intelligence with goldfish and lab rats.
 
original article said:
You put an animal in a box, even a lab rat or gerbil, and the first thing it wants to do is climb out of it. If you don't put a lid on top of the bowl a goldfish will eventually jump out.

But a dolphin will never do that. In the marine parks the dividers to keep the dolphins apart are only a foot or two above the water between the different pools."

Why not? Because, Professor Manger says, the thought would simply not cross their minds.
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:boggled:

Oh well,

at least someone put the smack down on this, specifically:

'Manger flagrantly brushes aside decades of work by a whole generation of well-respected and internationally-known marine mammal scientists whose findings provide no support for his arguments. Moreover, Manger’s findings are based on a number of incorrect data values and flawed data analytic techniques.
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hmmm...
 
From the article:
"You put an animal in a box, even a lab rat or gerbil, and the first thing it wants to do is climb out of it. If you don't put a lid on top of the bowl a goldfish will eventually jump out.

"But a dolphin will never do that. In the marine parks the dividers to keep the dolphins apart are only a foot or two above the water between the different pools."
Click to expand...

But rats/gerbils fit into an environment filled with obsticles. They need an instinct for getting around and over them. Their spacial skills are probably tuned in to that sort of thing.

Dolphins are in the wide open sea.

And what seperates the dolphins from the sea? Why would they want to jump into the cell next door? Especially if there's already a dolphin there to describe it to them! :p
 
there was a show on tv about dolphins that killed people. The thing was, the dolphins were in the right. They killed one idiot in Brazil that was pouring beer over him, and putting popsicle sticks in his blowhole.

The people they attacked WERE far more stupid than the dolphins, as in swimming in the wild with a wild 500 pound dolphin, and being shocked when he didn't act like Flipper. Or the young female research student who hopped in the pool with the breeding age female dolphins and wondering why they attacked her like she was a threat. The dolphins had only had middle aged male scientists swim with them.

Dolphins kill, but only to cull out the stupid humans
 
KelvinG said:
They'd fit right into our species, it would appear.
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Yes, if it's mostly the males doing the barbary.

Of course they aren't really as bad as "advanced" as us yet...they still haven't invented religion, have they?

I do think it's weird to compare animals that evolved to fill different niches. If getting info. from butt sniffing were a test, I think the canines would win. If interpretative dancing to illuminate flower position were the skill being tested, the bees would win. If getting humans to bend to your will via staring was the aim, my cat would win.

They said the dophins don't try very hard to escape enclosures. I can think of a lot of people enslaved by all sorts of notions without the inkling that they can escape. I love my species, but I'm not even sure we'd win that test.
 
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Dogdoctor said:
It's not anything new to think that dolphins aren't smart. From my understanding they are smarter than a dog and not as smart as a monkey. It is entirely misleading to compare their intelligence with goldfish and lab rats.
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Well, I haven't read anything in the articles on this guy's research to suggest that he thinks dolphins are smarter than dogs.
 
He argues the dolphin, widely regarded as one of the smartest mammals, does not display enough sophistication in its behaviour to show any more intelligence than a lab rat or goldfish.

"You put an animal in a box, even a lab rat or gerbil, and the first thing it wants to do is climb out of it. If you don't put a lid on top of the bowl a goldfish will eventually jump out.

"But a dolphin will never do that. In the marine parks the dividers to keep the dolphins apart are only a foot or two above the water between the different pools."

Why not? Because, Professor Manger says, the thought would simply not cross their minds.
Click to expand...

if that's the extent of his argument then the guy's a joke.....
 
andyandy said:
if that's the extent of his argument then the guy's a joke.....
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I assumed it was him putting part of his work in terms laypeople could understand. But if he submitted that one-liner to Nature for publication, I agree -what a joke.
 
in fact, there's probably a few dolphins out there with greater zoological clout.....
 
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