Are debunkers all that keep the "truth movement" alive?

[CHF]

Link to paper

Again, I'm not an expert in the required fields to even understand what the formulas in the paper mean exactly, but the abstract and introduction should make perfect sense to the layman.

Here's another one, JHarrow.

 

[beachnut]

Who says the truth movement is "alive"?

An incredibly sparse population of highly vocal windbags, prolific only on the internet.

My experience with 9/11 CT in the general population

You are correct.

On another forum I frequent, a "Where were you on 9/11?" thread was started. A diverse group, age range 18-50, mostly highly opinionated but not particularly political.

Of the 71 different posters, not one gave any indication of having any "troofer" tendencies; most simply posted where they were, what they were doing, and their sadness at the events.

Not one peep about conspiracy.

How much does the general public really care about 9/11 conspiracy theories? Other than on internet sites devoted to promoting or debunking, I have *never* had a conversation where someone claimed to hold conspiracy beliefs.

If anyone has references to scientifically conducted polls on the topic, I'd love to hear them (self-selected internet opinion "polls" are worthless).

While the "troofers" are incredibly vocal and prolific, how much do they really matter?

If I had not heard the doltish statements of Charlie Sheen, I would have missed how deeply crackers a few fringe nuts are who make up junk about 9/11. It is great to not fall for stupid schemes, and knowledge can save it from happening.

 

[Mobyseven]

There we go then. Links to calculations regarding the collapse of the towers.

I, for one, eagerly await JHarrow's rebuttal...

 

[CHF]

Yes, so hopelessly outclassed that you are yet to provide a single calculation that backs up your definitive statement about the total collapse of the towers.

Thank you for the example of what I meant in the OP, Harrow.

The TM has been dismissed by scientists, engineers and demolition pros as a band of uneducated half-wits, and has made no significant dent in society or politics.

But forget about all that! The real measurement of the TM's success is determined by whether or not I can be bothered looking up some calculations for you.

 

[The Doc]

The 9/11 conspiracist movement is dead.

We're just cleaning out the last pockets of resistance. It'll never go away entirely, but it's certainly nothing that could be considered a threat to global logic anymore.

 

[JHarrow]

The 9/11 conspiracist movement is dead.

We're just cleaning out the last pockets of resistance. It'll never go away entirely, but it's certainly nothing that could be considered a threat to global logic anymore.

You really believe you have had any effect whatsoever?

 

[Arus808]

wow, talk about reading impaired. JHarrow, with every post you make, you only prove how inept the truth movement actually is.

 

[CHF]

You really believe you have had any effect whatsoever?

Well a recent TM poll voted JREF as the most effective debunking source, and you guys do seem a little obsessed with Gravy...

 

[JHarrow]

Well a recent TM poll voted JREF as the most effective debunking source, and you guys do seem a little obsessed with Gravy...

Yes, you are effective. At refining truth movement evidence.

 

[Arus808]

haha, well, the truth movement must have evidence first. of which after 6 years, all they've produced is "spherules" collected in an apartment 11 days after the attack.

 

[CHF]

Yes, you are effective. At refining truth movement evidence.

Anyone know what that was supposed to mean?

 

[JHarrow]

haha, well, the truth movement must have evidence first. of which after 6 years, all they've produced is "spherules" collected in an apartment 11 days after the attack.

Lying again I see.

 

[~enigma~]

it's certainly nothing that could be considered a threat to global logic anymore.

When was it ever a threat to GLOBAL logic?

 

[Brainache]

Lying again I see.

Are you trying to say that the TM has some evidence to support its ludicrous feeble speculations?

Why has this evidence not been presented to anyone in the last six and a half years?

 

[Arus808]

Lying again I see.

ooh another lie from Jharrow.

You will list all the evidence that hte truth movement has given us so far.

Go on, list them.

 

[CHF]

Lying again I see.

Yeah, don't forget about the TM's other evidence, Arus.

The BBC being in on it, the "pyroclastic flow", "pull it", the 4,000 Jews who didn't go to work that day, the firefighter who didn't know which tower collapsed first, "squibs," "freefall into its own footprint," all those papers published in the "Journal of 9/11 Studies".....



JHarrow's gonna overthrow the government with that stuff. You'll see.

 

[The Doc]

You really believe you have had any effect whatsoever?

I know I've had an effect. My email attached to my 9/11 Mysteries Viewer's Guide frequently receives emails from people who have realized their errors in logic and reasoning, and have thanked me for my work. These people range from nurses, to engineers, to soldiers.

What's funny about that is that I also know that my effect on this whole debate is barely even noticeable when compared to that of Mark Robers, Popular Mechanics, the "Screw Loose Change" boys and MarkyX.

Debunkers, in general, have had a massive impact on your "movement". You think your theory would be as pathetically dismal as it is, if it had no opposition? Over 20 million people have watched Loose Change. Unless there was opposition to that, your "movement" would be much bigger. You can't even get a substantial amount of people together on the streets because most people who hear your theories have heard the counter theories, thanks to us debunkers.

 

[portlandatheist]

You really believe you have had any effect whatsoever?

The OP is about debunkers having the opposite of its attended effect by keeping the truth movement alive. It's an interesting question.

I think you are a great example JHarrow, we are your amusement and that pretty much sums up of what I see of the truth movement: craving attention, trying to piss people off, and seeking amusement.
What do you hope the truth movement, or you specifically, hope to accomplish? If you actually believe this stuff, I mean if you really really believe this stuff for real, I would suggest reading up on Elliot Ness, Nelson Mandela, William Mark Felt(Deep throat), Martin Luther King, and many other brave souls who were able to bring truth to the people and effect radical change.
This, obviously, is not the intent or motive of truthers as far as I can tell as the OP so explains.

There was another thread similar to this a few months back about "debunking" in general being counter productive as it brings quack ideas to the public and they are more likely to remember that than the specific details of why it was bogus in the first place or something to that effect. Likewise, truthers are more obsessed with JREF and debunkers than accomplishing goals that one might consider more important: finding and interviewing insiders and breaking a story, gathering information, getting published, having an investigation, etc. But time seems to be better wasted here, as I'm doing myself but at least I know this is for my amusement and nothing more.

 

[The Doc]

When was it ever a threat to GLOBAL logic?

Wrong terminology I guess lol. I mean "global" as in logic as a whole. So to rephrase... "a threat to the overall logic of humanity".

 

[Brainache]

Anyone know what that was supposed to mean?

I think he means that the TM dream up some nonsense, post it here and the posters here destroy it. Totally. Every time. We are their filter.This is a process of refinement. So far nothing put into the top of the JREF filter has dribbled out the bottom, but JHarrow is still pumping it in hoping that something will make it through.