Are atheists too complacent?

[Foster Zygote]

Atheists seem to assume that people who believe in God and an afterlife are mentally weak and gullible. Thereby assuming intellectual superiority over them.

That's just a strawman - one that seemingly helps you to dismiss atheists en masse as a bunch of arrogant meanies.

But have they considered what it means to really believe you are answerable to a higher power in everything you do?

Yes. Apparently it would surprise you to learn that many atheists were once theists, just as it would to learn that most of us have beloved friends and family who are theists.

Is it not easier and more comfortable to believe death brings oblivion, than to believe you are held accountable in an eternal afterlife?

This, I believe, points to the problem with your particular belief regarding accountability - from a moral standpoint. Your choice of words makes it clear that atheists will be held accountable for their lack of belief in the accountant itself. They could spend their lives being just as kind, just, generous and compassionate as someone who is a born again Christian, but in the end, their lack of belief in your deity will mark them as unworthy of reward. To make matters worse, your scriptures make it perfectly clear that reward is contingent upon belief without evidence, and as such, evidence is hidden so that people may earn eternal bliss through the "virtue" of faith. We are literally told that proof denies faith, and the best thing you can do is believe without evidence. So atheists will be punished for not believing what was deliberately hidden from them.

So your god doesn't really care how good people are. He only cares about their stroking of his ego. The perpetrators of that horrifying crime Darat referenced would be eligible for an eternity of bliss should they repent and accept Jesus as their savior before they die. Where's the accountability there? In contrast, someone who risked life and limb to save children from monsters like them, but died an atheist, would be deemed unworthy. All your god really cares about is his own egotism. He needs microscopic bugs like us to reassure him that he's super-awesome, or he'll destroy us. Not that being morally satisfying has anything to do with whether something us true or not, but that's just psychotic.

 

[Foster Zygote]

I do not propose to justify my beliefs on this thread Its for atheists to justify themselves, and Darat says the same thing about a three year old girl being murdered by soldiers, almost every time I post. If my memory serves me correctly he started out with a nine year old girl being raped and murdered by soldiers, and then he decided to reduce the age to three because it sounded more horrible.

I don't need to justify a lack of belief in something I can't perceive.

And you keep objecting to Darat's posts, but you never actually deny that they are true. This suggests to me that you aren't as comfortable with your own justifications as you would have us believe.

 

[Scorpion]

Scorpion, are you actually going to respond to any of this? You started this thread, yet you seem curiously uninterested in getting answers to your questions, or in commenting on the points that have been raised here.

I am quite content to let this thread roll on without me, Its already on page three with atheist interacting with each other. I am happy just to read it.

 

[Scorpion]

I don't need to justify a lack of belief in something I can't perceive.

And you keep objecting to Darat's posts, but you never actually deny that they are true. This suggests to me that you aren't as comfortable with your own justifications as you would have us believe.

I find Darat's world view is depressing. I do not spend my time thinking about horrible things. I uphold the view that in the eternal journey we are on everything eventually works out for the ultimate good.

 

[Scorpion]

That's just a strawman - one that seemingly helps you to dismiss atheists en masse as a bunch of arrogant meanies.


Yes. Apparently it would surprise you to learn that many atheists were once theists, just as it would to learn that most of us have beloved friends and family who are theists.


This, I believe, points to the problem with your particular belief regarding accountability - from a moral standpoint. Your choice of words makes it clear that atheists will be held accountable for their lack of belief in the accountant itself. They could spend their lives being just as kind, just, generous and compassionate as someone who is a born again Christian, but in the end, their lack of belief in your deity will mark them as unworthy of reward. To make matters worse, your scriptures make it perfectly clear that reward is contingent upon belief without evidence, and as such, evidence is hidden so that people may earn eternal bliss through the "virtue" of faith. We are literally told that proof denies faith, and the best thing you can do is believe without evidence. So atheists will be punished for not believing what was deliberately hidden from them.

So your god doesn't really care how good people are. He only cares about their stroking of his ego. The perpetrators of that horrifying crime Darat referenced would be eligible for an eternity of bliss should they repent and accept Jesus as their savior before they die. Where's the accountability there? In contrast, someone who risked life and limb to save children from monsters like them, but died an atheist, would be deemed unworthy. All your god really cares about is his own egotism. He needs microscopic bugs like us to reassure him that he's super-awesome, or he'll destroy us. Not that being morally satisfying has anything to do with whether something us true or not, but that's just psychotic.

I am not a Christian, although I think Jesus was a great spiritual teacher.
But my God does not punish atheist for not believing. In fact I think this is the age of reason in which mankind is intended to develop his intellect.
I cannot say more without dragging this thread into another discussion about my beliefs.

 

[Gord_in_Toronto]

That was actually the genesis of my doubts. I can remember (or remember remembering) when I was seven years old, sitting in my basement contemplating how vile a god would have to be to enact eternal punishment on anyone.

I was about that age when I started wondering about God ordering Abraham to sacrifice his son.

 

[Gord_in_Toronto]

[qimg]https://i.imgur.com/IBJ8ucI.jpg[/qimg]

You say that as though it's a bad thing.

Now if to some one was to resurrect a goof Homeopathy thread . . . .

 

[Darat]

I find Darat's world view is depressing. I do not spend my time thinking about horrible things. I uphold the view that in the eternal journey we are on everything eventually works out for the ultimate good.

Strange that - my worldview is that a 3 year old being kidnapped, gang raped and beheaded is a bad thing, in your worldview that it is not only necessary but good.

Whichever way you try to gloss over it you have explained to many of us that in your world a 3 year old being kidnapped, gang raped and then beheaded is a good thing and the child needed to experience such terrible horror and pain.

That you don't like the consequences of your beliefs is not my problem.

 

[Carrot Flower King]

Marvellous! Start a thread with a post full of straw men and the rest, up-end the concept of burden of proof, refuse to engage with any criticism of that.

Just another day trying to deal with religionists...

Mebbe you lot could try to make it a bit easier for us? Y'know, get the god lark sorted out so we know what exactly it is you are all on about, a consistent, definable concept or 2, an absence of handy-wavy squirrel spotting, all that class of thing?

 

[bruto]

I find Darat's world view is depressing. I do not spend my time thinking about horrible things. I uphold the view that in the eternal journey we are on everything eventually works out for the ultimate good.

you contend in your initial post that your viewpoint is more constructive because eternity makes for accountability, but here it seems you're saying the opposite. Everything will come out all right anyway. Just wait long enough and all the wrong and evil and horror of the world will end up somehow good. In the meantime just stick your fingers in your ears and hum.

I would suggest that though the existence of evil is depressing, the acceptance of it is more so.

 

[Dave Rogers]

Marvellous! Start a thread with a post full of straw men and the rest, up-end the concept of burden of proof, refuse to engage with any criticism of that.

You missed the bit where everybody else is accused of sounding like a cracked record.

Dave

 

[Scorpion]

Strange that - my worldview is that a 3 year old being kidnapped, gang raped and beheaded is a bad thing, in your worldview that it is not only necessary but good.

I think you googled that story to find something horrible to support your argument.

Whichever way you try to gloss over it you have explained to many of us that in your world a 3 year old being kidnapped, gang raped and then beheaded is a good thing and the child needed to experience such terrible horror and pain.

I never said such horrible events are good.

 

[Darat]

I think you googled that story to find something horrible to support your argument.







I never said such horrible events are good.

That 3 year old was kidnapped, gang raped and beheaded, that is a fact. I know you wish that you could not hear or read about these events that you think are necessary and good but tough, it's your worldview that makes such events necessary, own up to your own beliefs. Remember what you posted above "..everything eventually works out for the ultimate good..".

 

[Loss Leader]

I did say that the theory I made up is ridiculous.

Didn't doubt it. Just adding my take on the well-worn concept told to me by some believers that I know God exists but am, for some reason, mad at him or something. And, they add, I'll turn to God in a desperate enough situation. It's infuriating to be told what I believe.

I am quite content to let this thread roll on without me, Its already on page three with atheist interacting with each other. I am happy just to read it.

That is the absolute least polite thing you could have posted. You began a discussion. Many, many people have attempted to engage you on the very topic you brought up. And yet you refuse. I can only imagine this is because you lack satisfactory answers.

If you wish to allow this imagined reason to fester in my brain, please do. If you wish to object to it, please answer any of the objections raised to your OP.

I was about that age when I started wondering about God ordering Abraham to sacrifice his son.

That one was weird. It was the flood which got me (though probably starting around 10. At 7, we just decorated the sukkah and made cookies - and I objected to only half of those activities.

Seriously, if you had to pick a world religion, you could do a lot worse that Judaism. Eat great food, never pay retail for diamonds, marry Isla Fisher. It's basically all great except for the occasional genocide which, to be fair, does suck.

 

[The Atheist]

O. I see this particular rodeo is unfamiliar to you.

No, exactly the opposite, which is why I take 1/1,000,000th the care posting on theists as I do on actual subjects, like science, maths & medicine.

When it comes to who thinks what about their various god/s, I do tend to be hyperbolic, because I really don't care. A bit of fun correcting people on the bible is about as far I go.

When someone starts a discussion about what atheists think, or their level of complacency, I'll jump in and have a dollar's worth. A lot of atheists have the position that christians are worth saving from their BS as badly as some christians want to save atheists.

My position is that theists are a load of deluded halfwits not worth my time, and so indoctrinated in the main that discussion is rendered worthless. The few adult christians who change their minds figure it out on their own.

 

[arthwollipot]

I am quite content to let this thread roll on without me, Its already on page three with atheist interacting with each other. I am happy just to read it.

Okay, but are you actually learning anything from it?

 

[Gord_in_Toronto]

<snip>

Seriously, if you had to pick a world religion, you could do a lot worse that Judaism. Eat great food, never pay retail for diamonds, marry Isla Fisher. It's basically all great except for the occasional genocide which, to be fair, does suck.

One of the few things I have learnt from a poster in this forum is that the Jewish God is not stupid but rather has sense of humour. I had wondered how God could be confused by an Eruv. Apparently He is not but appreciates it that we humans found a way to circumvent His rule about not leaving the house on the Sabbath.

 

[Loss Leader]

My position is that theists who make such posts on this forum are a load of deluded halfwits not worth my time, and so indoctrinated in the main that discussion is rendered worthless.

I hope you find my addition appropriate. When it comes to theists in general, the brightest person I've ever met is one. The most compassionate is another. The most steadfast friend is, of all things, Mormon. And, of course, my grandfathers, both heroes in ways I could never hope to duplicate, were old-country Jews. I know a Muslim woman whose faith saw her through the untimely death of her teenage son.

I begrudge nobody the right to believe whatever brings them community and comfort.

One of the few things I have learnt from a poster in this forum is that the Jewish God is not stupid but rather has sense of humour. I had wondered how God could be confused by an Eruv. Apparently He is not but appreciates it that we humans found a way to circumvent His rule about not leaving the house on the Sabbath.

And that telephone wires can inscribe an area considered "inside" such that purses on wallets may be carried to and from shul on holidays.

As far as I can tell, God's just happy to see a Jewish community. He's not really sweating the details so long as everyone is together.

 

[P.J. Denyer]

I hope you find my addition appropriate. When it comes to theists in general, the brightest person I've ever met is one. The most compassionate is another. The most steadfast friend is, of all things, Mormon. And, of course, my grandfathers, both heroes in ways I could never hope to duplicate, were old-country Jews. I know a Muslim woman whose faith saw her through the untimely death of her teenage son.

I begrudge nobody the right to believe whatever brings them community and comfort.





And that telephone wires can inscribe an area considered "inside" such that purses on wallets may be carried to and from shul on holidays.

As far as I can tell, God's just happy to see a Jewish community. He's not really sweating the details so long as everyone is together.

I always found the idea of rules lawyering God stupid, but I heard a Rabbi once explain that their point of view is that by studying the rules that closely in order to find ways around them they are showing their devotion to them. I suppose that is a reasonable point of view although it suggests the rules are arbitrary.

 

[arthwollipot]

I always found the idea of rules lawyering God stupid, but I heard a Rabbi once explain that their point of view is that by studying the rules that closely in order to find ways around them they are showing their devotion to them. I suppose that is a reasonable point of view although it suggests the rules are arbitrary.

I call it Loophole Theology.