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Are atheists too complacent?

Come on, man. Really? This is what you start with? An overgeneralization based on no evidence other than anecdote?





Sometimes? I know some atheists who were raised very religious. I know some who weren't but studied religion. I know some who weren't and never cared to investigate much.

I was raised in a religious household, so I certainly have considered it.





I don't know. Being very, very close to death (my cardiologist referred me to hospice), I can tell you that my existentialism brings me very little comfort. Religion, which I have recently reconsidered, brought me very little comfort.

I don't find existentialism easy or comfortable. I find that the challenges of life are exactly as challenging. I'm not sure what part of school shooter drills at my kids' schools, Covid-19, or filling out tax forms would get easier one way or the other.

I've often envied people who find peace with difficult situations through faith. That, to me, seems easier. However, maybe they just are people capable of finding peace no matter what they might believe. I've seen Muslims, Hindus, Christians, Jews, and Shintoists ground themselves with faith. I've seen atheists who handle stress far more calmly than I. Collect some data and get back to me.

Sorry to hear about your health. I do not know if you have considered beliefs outside conventional religions. For myself my beliefs in an afterlife come from many years attending spiritualist churches.
 
I do not propose to justify my beliefs on this thread Its for atheists to justify themselves,

Wait. You started a thread for other people to justify their beliefs, and you won't even engage them in what they say? That doesn't seem very "forum-ish" to me. Debates, challenges to ideas, those sort of things are what make a forum better than Twitter.

If you aren't going to do your part, it hardly seems worth the effort.
 
Sorry to hear about your health. I do not know if you have considered beliefs outside conventional religions. For myself my beliefs in an afterlife come from many years attending spiritualist churches.


I hope that whatever your beliefs are, they bring you comfort.

I resent very much your implication that I should consider such things. I have my own beliefs, thank you. Pushing anything else on anybody, even in such a "polite" manner, seems to smack of the moral/intellectual superiority you accused atheists of having in your OP.

It has been pointed out that the blanket statements you made about atheists in your first post are not true. Have you retracted them?
 
The thread title asks whether atheists are too complacent.

The discussion answers that question pretty well, I think.

No, not at all too complacent. Just right, in fact, like Goldilock's porridge.

It's the God-botherers who never like their porridge, no matter how they heat it or cool it, or throw in salt, sugar, gunpowder, live heretics, somebody else's kitchen sink, even quantum Goedel.

It's almost enough to make you almost sorry for them.
 
I do not propose to justify my beliefs on this thread Its for atheists to justify themselves

Considering the amount of straw men, sheer inaccuracies, sweeping generalisations and the like in your OP, I fail to see why I should justify myself to you.

However, there is a bit of a snag in "justifying" why one does not believe in something, rather than why one does believe in something.

Atheism is an absence of belief in a god or any gods, rather than an active belief in a lack of gods, so nothing there to justify.

And I have spent quite a lot of time exposed to different religious beliefs and I'm yet to be convinced that I should believe in any of them (or any I haven't encountered yet) - why do I need such beliefs?
 
I do not propose to justify my beliefs on this thread Its for atheists to justify themselves, and Darat says the same thing about a three year old girl being murdered by soldiers, almost every time I post. If my memory serves me correctly he started out with a nine year old girl being raped and murdered by soldiers, and then he decided to reduce the age to three because it sounded more horrible.

But you were still OK with it.
 
Bleef bleef bleef. Why is bleef so important?

Some people's religions say believing in their god(s) is important. But that's just their belief, isn't it?

Narratives, practices, and experiences matter more than beliefs. I question whether anyone actually gets comfort from their beliefs. Whether you're reincarnated or not doesn't depend on whether you believe you will be; at least, no one seems to believe it does.

Do you think atheists are complacent because of what they believe or don't believe (i.e. that any gods exist), or because many of them don't engage in the practices you find balancing or comforting, such as prayer, worship, or community ritual?
 
Come on, man. Really? This is what you start with? An overgeneralization based on no evidence other than anecdote?





Sometimes? I know some atheists who were raised very religious. I know some who weren't but studied religion. I know some who weren't and never cared to investigate much.

I was raised in a religious household, so I certainly have considered it.





I don't know. Being very, very close to death (my cardiologist referred me to hospice), I can tell you that my existentialism brings me very little comfort. Religion, which I have recently reconsidered, brought me very little comfort.

I don't find existentialism easy or comfortable. I find that the challenges of life are exactly as challenging. I'm not sure what part of school shooter drills at my kids' schools, Covid-19, or filling out tax forms would get easier one way or the other.

I've often envied people who find peace with difficult situations through faith. That, to me, seems easier. However, maybe they just are people capable of finding peace no matter what they might believe. I've seen Muslims, Hindus, Christians, Jews, and Shintoists ground themselves with faith. I've seen atheists who handle stress far more calmly than I. Collect some data and get back to me.


Loss Leader, I'm so sorry to hear of your situation. The loss of one diminishes us all. I've just turned 79 so some time soon I know that my day will be done.

Maybe Dylan Thomas got it right:
Dylan Thomas - 1914-1953 said:
Do Not go Gentle into that Good Night.

Do not go gentle into that good night,
Old age should burn and rave at close of day;
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

Though wise men at their end know dark is right,
Because their words had forked no lightning they
Do not go gentle into that good night.

Good men, the last wave by, crying how bright
Their frail deeds might have danced in a green bay,
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

Wild men who caught and sang the sun in flight,
And learn, too late, they grieved it on its way,
Do not go gentle into that good night.

Grave men, near death, who see with blinding sight
Blind eyes could blaze like meteors and be gay,
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

And you, my father, there on the sad height,
Curse, bless, me now with your fierce tears, I pray.
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
 
(I mean, obviously everyone who believes the same stuff as me is entirely thoughtful and solemn and wise and super serious about such things; I'm talking about all those other guys, boy are they ever dumb.)


"Those who agree with us may not be right, but we admire their astuteness."
- Cullen Hightower
 
That's the only bit that is true. You don't know how to calculate the probabilities of any of this.

I do, though. A god that created the universe would leave some evidence.

So far, nothing.

Then the onus is on you to prove that you actually have this supernatural power that allows you to read the minds of believers.

No, it works on the basis that christians aren't lying when they make statements. I accept the possibility all of them might be lying all the time.

I've discussed religion with lots of people who take the same stance you take - that since it can't be proven scientifically that gods don't exist, we can't deny the possibility.

I have no need to appease theists that way, so won't have a bar of it.

I would be surprised if anything from the Bible is that unequivocal.

There are hundreds of examples of unequivocal statements in the bible. You should try reading it some time to see how ******* dumb it actually is.
 
I do, though. A god that created the universe would leave some evidence.

So far, nothing....

...after over 14 billion years

I've discussed religion with lots of people who take the same stance you take - that since it can't be proven scientifically that gods don't exist, we can't deny the possibility.

Indeed, atheists do not claim god does not exist, they claim there is no evidence for the existence of god, and there isn't. Therefore, the burden of proof is not on atheists to prove that gods do not exist, its on the theist to prove that gods do exist.

Yes, I know they try to handwave that away with some weasel words about faith, but this does not absolve them of proving their claim if they expect non-believers to take them seriously.
 
... Indeed, atheists do not claim god does not exist, they claim there is no evidence for the existence of god, and there isn't......
Speaking for myself, I am an atheist who claims gods don't exist.

1) No evidence of any gods existing where you would expect to see evidence.

2) A better explanation for god beliefs based on actual evidence: they are a human created fiction.

I've always been annoyed that people think they have to allow for the possibility of gods because people believe in them. After you explain god beliefs, there isn't just a lack of evidence that gods exist, there is nothing left upon which to leave the door open.

Yes yes, science always leaves the door open, but people don't obsess and repeat the caveat we don't or can't know with anything else as unlikely as gods existing. That is not how people word other scientific facts*.

I don't believe the sky will fall in tomorrow, but we can't say it won't, only that there is no evidence for it falling in.


*Yes yes, I understand the scientific definition of a 'fact'.


Phil Plait often says, don't be a dick. I'm not when I'm chatting with my Christian or Muslim friends. But this is a forum where we discuss the evidence based Universe.
 
Indeed, atheists do not claim god does not exist, they claim there is no evidence for the existence of god, and there isn't. Therefore, the burden of proof is not on atheists to prove that gods do not exist, its on the theist to prove that gods do exist.

Yes, that's where psion is headed, but I'm way past that nonsense. It's a position based on a brand of cowardly intellectualism that I don't have any interest in.

Even better, there's an easy way to turn it back on theists - just ask which god they want to be disproved, because christians, muslins & Jews all believe in only one and I wouldn't ever be arsed trying to debate a Hindu. Their gods are at least funny and attractive. How can you not like Ganesh Chaturthi? Or Durga? I'd swap with that one in a heartbeat - I could always use more arms.

Yes, I know they try to handwave that away with some weasel words about faith, but this does not absolve them of proving their claim if they expect non-believers to take them seriously.

They don't.

The only non-believers they're remotely interested in are those who haven't been introduced to their sky-daddy yet and who might one day tithe.
 
Indeed, atheists do not claim god does not exist, they claim there is no evidence for the existence of god, and there isn't. Therefore, the burden of proof is not on atheists to prove that gods do not exist, its on the theist to prove that gods do exist.

Atheism is as such an affirmative claim that they lack a belief in any god/s.

That affirmative claim bears a burden of proof.

Fine by me, I believe in no god/s.

QED
 
Loss Leader, I'm so sorry to hear of your situation. The loss of one diminishes us all. I've just turned 79 so some time soon I know that my day will be done.

Maybe Dylan Thomas got it right:


Thank you very much for your kind words. I will rage for as long as I can. But I will also prepare so that my family has less to worry about when that time comes. Also, I want one of those New Orleans jazz bands but my wife said no.


Atheism is as such an affirmative claim that they lack a belief in any god/s.

That affirmative claim bears a burden of proof.


I don't think it's an affirmative claim. It's simply the best claim that can be made in the absence of repeatable, falsifiable evidence to the contrary. However, I see no reason at all to let this thread devolve into the hard/soft atheism argument.

This thread is for the OP to justify his statements regarding the behavior of atheists. He hasn't done that yet.
 
Thank you very much for your kind words. I will rage for as long as I can. But I will also prepare so that my family has less to worry about when that time comes. Also, I want one of those New Orleans jazz bands but my wife said no.





I don't think it's an affirmative claim. It's simply the best claim that can be made in the absence of repeatable, falsifiable evidence to the contrary. However, I see no reason at all to let this thread devolve into the hard/soft atheism argument.

This thread is for the OP to justify his statements regarding the behavior of atheists. He hasn't done that yet.

No, abaddon is correct. Subtly sarcastic, but correct.
 
I do, though. A god that created the universe would leave some evidence.

So far, nothing.
This is an old discussion. A god who can create everything would have the ability to choose whether to leave clear evidence of his existence or not and whether to include unbelievers in the loop.

I'm not saying that this is the case - only that there is no way of knowing if this is the case or not.

No, it works on the basis that christians aren't lying when they make statements. I accept the possibility all of them might be lying all the time.
So Christians tell you that they know there are no gods but choose to believe in them anyway?

I've discussed religion with lots of people who take the same stance you take - that since it can't be proven scientifically that gods don't exist, we can't deny the possibility.

I have no need to appease theists that way, so won't have a bar of it.
You don't have to appease anybody. But your opinion doesn't become a proven fact just because you can invent a small number and assign it to the probability of gods.
 

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