Are atheists inevitably pessimists?

Scorpion said:

I consider myself a deist who believes God started the universe as a perfect plan to allow intelligent life to evolve and develop by free will over many incarnations.

The universe would not be here without a very great many happy accidents, and intelligent life on a planet such as ours needs many more details to work in our favour.
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You also believe that childhood cancer is a karmicly deserved consequence of previous lives. That we should not intervene in such cases so as not to obstruct the cleansing of karmic debt of the child sufferer.
 
All atheists are inevitably not god believers. Nothing else is inevitable about atheists.
 
Scorpion said:

I consider myself a deist who believes God started the universe as a perfect plan to allow intelligent life to evolve and develop by free will over many incarnations.

The universe would not be here without a very great many happy accidents, and intelligent life on a planet such as ours needs many more details to work in our favour.
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Are yes, the same old God making things perfect statement. How many times do we get this **** from the religious? Why the perfect creator God cannot create man perfect from scratch is the conundrum we are faced with. Why hell, our bodies are plagued with so many imperfections as well. And those are the good ones not afflicted by deformities.

We get lots of statements of belief and faith from you Scorpion, but when you are asked to explain some anomaly, you get all vague or pass on it. I am still waiting for your take on my hypothesis, that the World is not as suitable a place for moulding our souls into shape as it once was - as a result of it being a nicer place to live now.
 
Scorpion said:



I consider myself a deist who believes God started the universe as a perfect plan to allow intelligent life to evolve and develop by free will over many incarnations.



The universe would not be here without a very great many happy accidents, and intelligent life on a planet such as ours needs many more details to work in our favour.
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That is such a horrendous viewpoint, as I have pointed out before what you are saying is your God planned a 3 year old to be raped multiple times by soldiers so she could evolve. If I had your beliefs I would be beyond grief and sadness, I would live in abject and utter terror and revulsion of your god.
 
So let me sum up.

Atheists in general are making a mistake.

We should be creating meaning for our lives.

And by creating meaning you mean we need a vital project in our lives to replace the project of religion.

And by "vital project" you mean that we should continue to act just exactly as we already are.

Have I got it now?
 
Let me adjust the Moliere for the current situation.

Master philosopher: You are making a mistake talking the way you are talking. You should be speaking prose.

Robin: And by "speaking prose", you mean:

Master philosopher: Prose is the way you are talking now.

Robin: So I should stop speaking as I am speaking now and, instead, I should speak as I am speaking now?

Master philosopher: Exactly!
 
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OK, good tip from philosophy.

Atheism implies a dramatic question. Atheists are making a mistake if we think we can abandon religion and continue live as we are currently living. Instead we should try to continue living as we are currently living.

I will try to bear that in mind.

I have no idea why philosophy gets such a bad rap.
 
Darat said:
That is such a horrendous viewpoint, as I have pointed out before what you are saying is your God planned a 3 year old to be raped multiple times by soldiers so she could evolve. If I had your beliefs I would be beyond grief and sadness, I would live in abject and utter terror and revulsion of your god.
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I feel the world where a three year old is raped and killed a terrible place to be, unless I numb my thinking of the world with my own goals or entertainment or a religion or a philosophy that disconnects me from events away from me, with or without God or its planning of it.
Out of the four I eliminated the third one. The fourth one is gaining strength over the first and second ones.
 
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Scorpion said:
I consider myself a deist who believes God started the universe as a perfect plan to allow intelligent life to evolve and develop by free will over many incarnations.
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And who or what started the universe in which God came up with that perfect plan, presumably after evolving and developing the intelligence to do so over many incarnations?
 
Dave Rogers said:
Saying what an "overall project" is based on is not the same as either defining what an "overall project" is or demonstrating that everybody necessarily has one. Nor is it the same as evidence that the term "overall project" is even a useful label. Try harder.

Dave
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Do you deny that a Christian's idea of what God and the world are does not affect his personal relationships?
It is difficult for me to argue something so obvious.
 
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acbytesla said:
Sorry, doesn't cut it. The idea of gods are identical to comic book superheroes like Spiderman. In fact some of them are. I give you Thor.

You continue to project that your idea of a God as what others think. I don't even believe you can argue that any two theists have the same idea about God. Some give God powers that others don't. And yet they both might call themselves not only Christians but more specifically Baptists.

In fact, Christians often refer to it as their personal god.
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I have commented on those differences in several comments --#226 was the latter-- that you ignore over and over again.

We can go over them one by one:
The most important: the difference between believing that a fiction entity is a fiction entity and believing that a fiction entity is real.
The reader of Spiderman knows that his hero does not exist. The Christian believes that his God exists.
From here the differences between both beliefs are abysmal. I don't know how you can deny this.

Of course there are many kinds of Christianity. But the ones I know are based on the beliefs that I have described and summarized by the name of Superfather. That's what I'm talking about. Not the differences about the role of grace, the consubstantiality of the Son and these things that cause Christians to kill each other from time to time.
 
Dave Rogers said:
Yes, in that being told he speaks in prose is in no way relevant to the intent or meaning of anything he says. Your definition of an "overall project," which appears to be more or less identical with that of self-awareness and is drafted in such a way as to apply to any and all people in any and all circumstances, is in fact even less relevant, since you've framed it so as to render virtually any statement about it either self-contradictory or tautological.

Dave
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I took Molière's example as a funny way of illustrating that one can be doing something without knowing what it's called or what it implies. Like a vital project. I didn't mean to talk about Monsieur Jourdain's life project.

Could you explain why the concept of vital project is contradictory? (I don't like this word, but it seems to be the one that is best understood in this forum).

Surely there are things that you apply to all mankind. For example: "Every human being has passions"; "We act many times unconsciously". If these statements can be applied to all humanity, why can't the statement be made that we all have a more or less conscious project of life?
 
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Robin said:
So let me sum up.

Atheists in general are making a mistake.

We should be creating meaning for our lives.

And by creating meaning you mean we need a vital project in our lives to replace the project of religion.

And by "vital project" you mean that we should continue to act just exactly as we already are.
Have I got it now?
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No. I have not said that all atheists act the same as believers just for the sake of having a life project. Some atheists do because they base their vital project on absolute principles independent of their responsibility. In other words, they replace one idol with another, whether they do it consciously or not. In this they resemble believers.

But that does not refer to the whole of the atheists.
 
Robin said:
Let me adjust the Moliere for the current situation.

Master philosopher: You are making a mistake talking the way you are talking. You should be speaking prose.

Robin: And by "speaking prose", you mean:

Master philosopher: Prose is the way you are talking now.

Robin: So I should stop speaking as I am speaking now and, instead, I should speak as I am speaking now?

Master philosopher: Exactly!
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I don't know where you've gone to find such an absurd master philosopher.
 
Robin said:
OK, good tip from philosophy.

Atheism implies a dramatic question. Atheists are making a mistake if we think we can abandon religion and continue live as we are currently living. Instead we should try to continue living as we are currently living.

I will try to bear that in mind.

I have no idea why philosophy gets such a bad rap.
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I don't know what philosophy you're talking about either. It's not mine.
 
Pixel42 said:
And who or what started the universe in which God came up with that perfect plan, presumably after evolving and developing the intelligence to do so over many incarnations?
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The belief is that God has always existed. That may not seem possible in our way of thinking, but that's what I seem to recall a spirit guide saying.
 
Darat said:
That is such a horrendous viewpoint, as I have pointed out before what you are saying is your God planned a 3 year old to be raped multiple times by soldiers so she could evolve. If I had your beliefs I would be beyond grief and sadness, I would live in abject and utter terror and revulsion of your god.
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It is said, God remains perfect and untouched by suffering. He simply created a system that would ultimately lead us back to him over countless lifetimes.
God does not tell soldiers what to do , he simply allows us free will to act as we see fit, but makes us answerable for our actions over many lives.
A trance medium once said, we are presently at the stage of spiritual evolution that equates to kindergarten.
The human race may take another million years to evolve to what we are intended to become.
 
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