Are atheists inevitably pessimists?

[GDon]

To me it's always a very lazy way out. Yeah, my god is all powerful and all caring, but I am just too stupid to understand why bad things happen.

I would reword that as "I don't have enough understanding to explain why'. But otherwise: that seems accurate. What would a non-lazy way look like?

I'm happy it give you comfort, but it always reminds me of people trapped in abusive relationships. Yeah (s)he really loves me, it just my fault I said the wrong thing so they had to beat me up.

I don't disagree.

 

[theprestige]

What is an "out and proud" atheist? : confused : Are you implying that everyone who is atheist necessarily announces it to the world? Because that is not at all the case.

Not at all. I'm sure there are plenty who don't wear their atheism on their sleeve. I have no idea if they're as seemingly misanthropic as the ones who do. I can only form my impression of atheists based on my encounters with people that I know are atheists. Of the people that I know are atheists, that is the impression I've formed: Misanthropy, which is a kind of pessimism. Are atheists inevitably misanthropes? I don't know. Probably not - absolute statements about groups of people are almost never true. But as a rule of thumb, it wouldn't surprise me at all if the majority of atheists resembled that remark. Based on my (admittedly limited) experience.

 

[Tassman]

Not at all. I'm sure there are plenty who don't wear their atheism on their sleeve. I have no idea if they're as seemingly misanthropic as the ones who do. I can only form my impression of atheists based on my encounters with people that I know are atheists. Of the people that I know are atheists, that is the impression I've formed: Misanthropy, which is a kind of pessimism. Are atheists inevitably misanthropes? I don't know. Probably not - absolute statements about groups of people are almost never true. But as a rule of thumb, it wouldn't surprise me at all if the majority of atheists resembled that remark. Based on my (admittedly limited) experience.

People tend to reflect the societal values of the culture in which they exist - religious or secular.

 

[Darat]

No that's not a justified assumption at all. You cannot get all of that from being a theist alone.

...snip...

I do agree it depends which god or gods they claim to believe in.

But the largest single religious sect, the RCC has so much disdain for people that they condemn all non-RCs to their concept of hell, they have so much hatred for humanity that they consider every single baby is a sinner. And they have never in their almost 1,800 years been able to reconcile their god with the evil in the world, they know it is a problem, so they do a lot of handwaving that ends up saying nothing more than "because god".

 

[Carrot Flower King]

To address several things brought up here:

Mostly I would describe myself as an atheist, although some days I wouldn't go further than agnostic; I don't habitually mention this, only in certain specific contexts, like this, or if asked directly (like a very god-bothering healthcare assistant I was working a couple of night shifts with one time insisted on doing - man, those were looooooong shifts). I do not regard it as an important, let alone remotely defining, part of my identity - my opinions that the IRS REM albums are uniformly better than the Warners albums or that The Velvet Underground were a better band with John Cale in rather than Doug Yule or that Fauré's piano quintets are way superior to his piano quartets are more significant. However, most other folk are not bothered about those things...

I do not have any need for "meaning" in the universe, as it just "is" and I'm not particularly important in the scheme of things (yay for studying geology and biology!).

At times I display some distinctly misanthropic views, but these are unrelated to my lack of religious belief and more to do with actually meeting people - see, for example, some of my comments in a nearby thread about working with families who neglect, abuse and generally **** up their children - and knowing the consequences of their actions and inactions.

 

[zooterkin]

Maybe there's something self-fulfilling about the category "out-and-proud X" which means it almost inevitably consists of a defiance if not actual disdain for not-X.

I have no idea about whether most of my acquaintances are religious. Most of those I do know about are not.

Indeed. In the UK you are more likely to be surprised if someone says they are a believer, and even more if they are an active churchgoer.

 

[Foster Zygote]

Not at all. I'm sure there are plenty who don't wear their atheism on their sleeve. I have no idea if they're as seemingly misanthropic as the ones who do. I can only form my impression of atheists based on my encounters with people that I know are atheists. Of the people that I know are atheists, that is the impression I've formed: Misanthropy, which is a kind of pessimism. Are atheists inevitably misanthropes? I don't know. Probably not - absolute statements about groups of people are almost never true. But as a rule of thumb, it wouldn't surprise me at all if the majority of atheists resembled that remark. Based on my (admittedly limited) experience.

Given your small sample size and your obvious prejudices, I don't think your observations are worth much, other than as another insufferably smug post about the insufferable smugness of atheists.

Some time ago you stated that the vast majority of your experience with atheists is from this forum, a place established for the very purpose of arguing such matters as theistic claims. Given my observations of many participants on this forum over the last 15+ years, I get the impression that your assessments of insufferable smugness and pessimistic misanthropy have more to do with your inability to provide a convincing epistemological argument about the fallacy of atheism than anything to do with actual atheists.

 

[Lukraak_Sisser]

Indeed. In the UK you are more likely to be surprised if someone says they are a believer, and even more if they are an active churchgoer.

The same here in the Netherlands. The conversation rarely if ever comes up.
Religion is pretty much a non issue except in a few isolated bible belt communities and even there mostly between those that are religious.

 

[abaddon]

The same here in the Netherlands. The conversation rarely if ever comes up.
Religion is pretty much a non issue except in a few isolated bible belt communities and even there mostly between those that are religious.

Same in the ROI. I was quite proud when my countrymen told the RCC to go take a running jump and voted in SSM despite the vitriol of the bishops/priests/true bleevers.

What swung it? Because all of us know the rife abuse by the clergy and had enough of the evil nonsense. When it reached a critical mass, there was no denying it anymore.

I escaped that, because my parents were of the type that would be saying "Wait a minute" and supported me. Had they not had that courage, I have no idea where I would be. Both were devote RCC, Both said you don't mess with my kid.

You seem to think I have the right to do that by simple dint of having it away in an orgy somehow since the missionary position is the only position. This is a position ("scuse pun") possible that is permissible. After all, I can rape a chick and make her my slave according to that holey babble. Is that true?

 

[theprestige]

People tend to reflect the societal values of the culture in which they exist - religious or secular.

I have no ******* idea what this is supposed to mean.

 

[theprestige]

Given your small sample size and your obvious prejudices, I don't think your observations are worth much, other than as another insufferably smug post about the insufferable smugness of atheists.

Some time ago you stated that the vast majority of your experience with atheists is from this forum, a place established for the very purpose of arguing such matters as theistic claims. Given my observations of many participants on this forum over the last 15+ years, I get the impression that your assessments of insufferable smugness and pessimistic misanthropy have more to do with your inability to provide a convincing epistemological argument about the fallacy of atheism than anything to do with actual atheists.

Not at all. Deficiencies of epistemological argument aside, the atheists I've encountered seem to have a low opinion of their fellow man, and little to no empathy, as a general posture.

 

[theprestige]

Given your small sample size

No but seriously tell me about how my small sample size shouldn't inform my opinion of the sample.

 

[GDon]

I'm sure there are plenty who don't wear their atheism on their sleeve. I have no idea if they're as seemingly misanthropic as the ones who do. I can only form my impression of atheists based on my encounters with people that I know are atheists. Of the people that I know are atheists, that is the impression I've formed: Misanthropy, which is a kind of pessimism.

You could add more recent atheist groups, like Atheism Plus and the New Atheists. Once a group is formed around common beliefs and that group tries to effect social change by designating a common enemy, misanthropy ensures. Reading PZ Myers and Richard Carrier for their views on atheists, and atheists' views on Myers and Carriers, is very informative!

From Michael Nugent:
https://www.michaelnugent.com/2014/12/16/hurtful-harmful-smears-pz-myers-happy-atheist/

PZ Myers has said that the scum has risen to the top of the atheist movement, that it is burdened by cretinous reactionaries, that sexist and misogynistic scumbags are more than a fringe phenomenon, and that if you don’t agree with Atheism Plus you are an ******* Atheist. He has also agreed that the atheist movement has a white supremacist logic.

PZ has also said that he has officially divorced himself from the skeptic movement, that the skeptic movement has attracted way too many thuggish jerks, especially in the leadership, and that the communities of atheists, science-fiction writers, gamers, scholars of literature, skepticism, politics, and philosophers are rife with sexist scumbags.

On the other hand, it wouldn't take long to find theists making similar comments about other theists. So I don't know if we can say that it is theism/atheism driving these types of critiques, or if it is something more human. (I was a bit surprised that Myers threw scholars of literature into the mix. I thought those guys were okay!)

 

[Tassman]

I have no ******* idea what this is supposed to mean.

What it means is that atheism/theism has little to do with misanthropy or pessimism per se. Rather is the societal values of the culture that are reflected by such attitudes e.g., equitable distribution of wealth, equal human rights, freedom of beliefs etc.

 

[erlando]

Not at all. Deficiencies of epistemological argument aside, the atheists I've encountered seem to have a low opinion of their fellow man, and little to no empathy, as a general posture.

We get it. You don't hold atheists in particularly high regard. No wonder most atheists don't tell you they're atheists...

 

[Foster Zygote]

Not at all. Deficiencies of epistemological argument aside, the atheists I've encountered seem to have a low opinion of their fellow man, and little to no empathy, as a general posture.

And in my experience, the atheists I've encountered are no more or less empathetic towards other humans than are theists. So when I encounter a theist whom I think has poor character, I don't employ confirmation bias to project their behavior onto every other theist in order to feel superior to theists en masse.

Your denigration of atheists is so clichéd that you've even resorted to moldy oldies like "atheists just don't want to be accountable for their wrongdoing" and "atheists are bad because you don't have a god telling them to be good". Again, I've seen enough to form the opinion that your experiences with the atheists here have had more to do with your personality than theirs, and your characterizations of them have more to do with your own bigotry than their alleged pessimism and misanthropy.

 

[Foster Zygote]

No but seriously tell me about how my small sample size shouldn't inform my opinion of the sample.

I really expected that someone who'd been a member of this forum as long as you have would understand critical thinking well enough to know the answer to that question.