Are atheists inevitably pessimists?

David Mo said:
The life project that gives meaning to our lives includes things that matter to us and things that do not. Except for hooligans, I don't think mass sport is important. Normally we give preference to our family life, friends, professional life, art, etc. As a whole, it's what we call "the world".

When I spoke of indifference, I meant total indifference, especially to important things. I think that kind of indifference is not human, because what is human is concern. That is, to be concerned about. (I think that "concern" is better than "worry" in English).
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I don't see how indifference to whether or not life has a "meaning" would imply total indifference.

Obviously, by definition, we will not be indifferent to things that are important to us.
 
David Mo said:
The life project that gives meaning to our lives includes things that matter to us and things that do not. Except for hooligans, I don't think mass sport is important. Normally we give preference to our family life, friends, professional life, art, etc. As a whole, it's what we call "the world".

When I spoke of indifference, I meant total indifference, especially to important things. I think that kind of indifference is not human, because what is human is concern. That is, to be concerned about. (I think that "concern" is better than "worry" in English).
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You remind me a lot of the lead character in the rock opera "Tommy". This character goes a particular path to receive what he considers to be "enlightenment", and naturally he wants to share his "enlightenment" with others, but he mistakenly determines that to achieve this others must think the same he thinks and go through the same experiences he went through. If you think this "life project" thing is necessary for you, that's just jim dandy, but that doesn't mean it is the only way to go.
 
If I understand correctly you claim to live without...

a) An idea about themselves, your capacities and weaknesses.
b) An idea of which things are important and which are pernicious or insignificant.
c) How to achieve some and avoid others.
d) How to relate to other people...

Caramba, you are very strange people!
 
David Mo said:
If I understand correctly you claim to live without...

a) An idea about themselves, your capacities and weaknesses.
b) An idea of which things are important and which are pernicious or insignificant.
c) How to achieve some and avoid others.
d) How to relate to other people...

Caramba, you are very strange people!
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Your conditionality is well chosen. Your starting point is that you understand your opponents to hold a position that they do not in fact hold, and that your opponents fail to understand a set of premises that they do in fact understand. In the circumstances, it's hardly surprising that your reasoning produces absurd results; but as a philosopher, shouldn't the drawing of absurd conclusions alert you to the possibility that your premises are urgently in need of re-examination?

Dave
 
David Mo said:
I'm not talking about the definition of "god." I'm talking about the way believers imagine and feel their god.
I'm not talking about all those who declare themselves members of a church or belief. I am talking about those who really believe in a god that is similar to the so-called religions of the Book, because these are the religions that I know and have influence in our contemporary society.
I am not saying that all atheists consider the meaning of existence or, in other words, a vital project. There are those who do not consciously pose the problem and pretend that they have no life project. This is a mistake that I have tried to explain. Everyone has an idea more or less conscious of what they want to make of his life, which corresponds to that I call a vital project.

I am amazed that this so simple idea can provoke so many rabid responses and so few rational comments. You have a problem, truly.
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You just keep babbling on making less and less sense talking superior and acting like every one else are morons because they don't comprehend such nonsense.

Your original comment.
David Mo said:
Of course, atheism implies some dramatic question. You cannot abandon religion and continue to live like nothing has happen. This is the existential "nausea" that every one copes as he can. There are lucid ways and illusory ways.

But for all I know religious people are not free of this kind of nausea. They rationalize it in other ways like doubt, God's silence and distressing mystery of a terrible god.

I think that religious people are more prone to illusory ways that atheist. It seems more consolatory, in principle. But it is ironic that this illusory consolation leads them to new anguishes that come from a dependence of a terrible father. How do you be calm with an incomprehensible and violent father? It is useless that I constantly repeat that my Father loves me if I see how He treat his creatures.

That is why that questioning about the advantages or disadvantages of religion is an useless question. Be lucid and search your way. There is not other that is valid for you. The head-in-the-sand solution is not even useful for ostriches.
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Not only is this nonsense philosophical babble it simply isn't true. It's not even close to being true. I compared gods to other mythical/fictional characters which to nonbelievers Gods are identical and they are. Then you suggested (ignorantly/stupidly?) that Rita Hayworth was mythical as well.

Quit blaming others for failing to understand your babble. Just because you think you make sense, doesn't mean you do.
 
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David Mo said:
Socrates has already said it: in the end, everything is very simple. You just have to know how to ask the right questions.



And how do you determine what's important from what's not?
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And we can be indifferent about whether or not existence has "meaning" and still ask those questions.

That is the point I have been making. Instead of simply accepting the premise "life must have meaning" I have examined it and asked - why must life have meaning? What does it mean for life to have meaning? What exactly is wrong with a meaningless existence?

Having found no good answer to any of those questions I have determined that it is not important to worry about such abstract metaphysical concerns and instead to look for what is really important.
 
And I am still waiting to hear what is so meaningful about an eternal existence ruled over by an omnipotent dictator.
 
Could it not in fact be said that an existence where we have to decide what really is important and what is not, is a more meaningful existence than one where all these questions have been pre-decided and we only have the option of obeying or facing vicious retribution?
 
So before you can make the claim that atheists must replace the project of religion, you must first defend the underlying assumption that the project of religion was ever meaningful in the first place.
 
Robin said:
And we can be indifferent about whether or not existence has "meaning" and still ask those questions.

That is the point I have been making. Instead of simply accepting the premise "life must have meaning" I have examined it and asked - why must life have meaning? What does it mean for life to have meaning? What exactly is wrong with a meaningless existence?

Having found no good answer to any of those questions I have determined that it is not important to worry about such abstract metaphysical concerns and instead to look for what is really important.
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A plate of assorted cheeses and a Guinness (I like other stouts, also a full Lager would work). Preferably sitting on my patio watching a pleasant sunset.
 
Traveler Steve said:
A plate of assorted cheeses and a Guinness (I like other stouts, also a full Lager would work). Preferably sitting on my patio watching a pleasant sunset.
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I still don't get beer. I don't think I've ever had one that I didn't want to spit out of my mouth for tasting awful.
 
acbytesla said:
I still don't get beer. I don't think I've ever had one that I didn't want to spit out of my mouth for tasting awful.
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Just like the bitterness, or perhaps different flavors of it, I suppose.

Don't want to get dinged for being off topic, but perhaps this is a good example of the whole life meaning thing. I agree with the question of: why? Why does life need a meaning? Perhaps these light social interactions about beer are the whole meaning of life. Or not. Who knows?

I'll just keep muddling along and try to cause the least amount of harm, to others and the planet. About as close as I can get to any meaning.
 
Traveler Steve said:
Just like the bitterness, or perhaps different flavors of it, I suppose.

Don't want to get dinged for being off topic, but perhaps this is a good example of the whole life meaning thing. I agree with the question of: why? Why does life need a meaning? Perhaps these light social interactions about beer are the whole meaning of life. Or not. Who knows?

I'll just keep muddling along and try to cause the least amount of harm, to others and the planet. About as close as I can get to any meaning.
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It's not really off topic. If sitting back in a chair sharing a cold one with friends watching a sunset is how you define the meaning of life, who am I to argue with you? It's just not the meaning of life to me. If it was, I would have a permanent look of distaste on my face because regardless of the type of beer I can't stand it. That goes for Scotch too. My impression is nobody likes either at first but some way, somehow they develop a taste for them.
 
Hmm... can't edit on Tapatalk. Postus interruptus above will just have to stay.

The important things can be sitting on the patio with you favourite tipple and a plate of cheese or a barbeque with friends. It can be helping your kids with homework, helping a charity, visiting old people for companionship, cheering your team at your favourite sport (even curling!) and a host of other things.

All these things have value. With or without any gods being involved.
 
Right now, I'm sitting in a suburban park on a sunny spring morning, drinking a coffee, waiting to pick the kids up from their last school event for the term. Catching up on my reading (when I'm not posting here)

Who needs meaning? This is meaning enough.
 
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