Are All Conspiracy Theories False?

[Sword_Of_Truth]

On the physical science by itself, Occam's razor clearly slices in favor of controlled demolition. This is because we know that controlled demolitions can occur, they have occured many times in the past. It requires no new theory to explain it. Thus controlled demolition is a far simpler explanation than the brand-new "gravity disintegrates the quarter mile high skyscraper" hypothesis.

Only you would call the assumption of the existence of start trek transporter style technology a fulfillment of Occam's razor.

 

[alexg]

I see the thread has traveled far from the title.

But to the thread's title:

This reminds me of what people say whenever they put forward a strange sounding theory, often of their own invention, to explain events. Say a theory for beating the stock market, for example. They usually say something like 'well everyone thought Einstein was crazy but he turned the world of physics upside down.' To which I reply 'for every one Einstein there are a million would be Einsteins whose theories prove to be rubbish', so yes, I give your theory a one in a million chance.

So I'm saying there's a chance?

Not really.

 

[TruthSeeker1234]

the events on 9/11/2001, show no evidence of controlled demolition.

There is a mountain of evidence for explosive demolition.

The first and most obvious evidence is to look at what happened. Those buildings did not collapse. They did not fall down. They disintegrated.

Please observe this photo of a 10 story building which collapsed. It is probably on the order of 1/40th the size of one twin tower.

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b108/janedoe444/trouble/24_pancake.jpg

Here is a different view of the same

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b108/janedoe444/trouble/25_pancake_quake051009.jpg

Now please observe this photo of GZ

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b108/janedoe444/trouble/21a_flattenedManhattan_1701.jpg

We would easily expect two hills of rubble of 100 feet tall, at least. We would expect to see acre-sized concrete and steel bottom floors stacked. We would expect to see large sections of the enormous core structure.

Yet it has all disappeared. Where did it all go?

Now observe this

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b108/janedoe444/trouble/27_mushroom_site1061.jpg

That is where it all went. Somehow, as we can plainly see, the contents of the building were turned into dust and shredded steel, and sent flying sideways in all 4 directions.

Now observe this

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b108/janedoe444/trouble/26_nuke1.jpg

This is a large explosion. It has characteristic "cauliflower" shape. Compare this to the previous picture of the twin tower exploding.

All of these photos are evidence.

 

[defaultdotxbe]

It doesn't. The penthouse collapse is irrelevant. Any internal machinations that may have occurred before the roofline moves are irrelevant.

so what you are saying that the building could not have fallen at the spoeed it did without the internal structure being "removed" however any activity on that very same internal structure before the roofline falls is irrelevant?

please explain


ETA: just skimmed over kuttlers figures, he assumes no floor moved until it was hit by the floor above it, this is not necessarily true, is the structaure failed on the lower levels of the building (which is highly likely given the pattern of damage to the building) all floors would being to fall at the same time, if this is the case, kuttlers assumptions are false

 

[TheGrunion]

It doesn't. The penthouse collapse is irrelevant. Any internal machinations that may have occurred before the roofline moves are irrelevant.

Can you explain how and why the penthouse collapsed? I don't believe you are in a position to dismiss it is "irrelevant" unless you can.

 

[TruthSeeker1234]

Indeed, back to the title. Any conspiracies you guys think are true? gulf of Tonkin? Rieshtag (sp?) fire? Remember the Maine? CIA overthrow of Iran? Iran Contra? Tuskegee experiment? Anything?

 

[TruthSeeker1234]

Can you explain how and why the penthouse collapsed? I don't believe you are in a position to dismiss it is "irrelevant" unless you can.

It is irrelevant to Kuttler's calculation. It is not irrelevant to understanding the event in toto.

 

[Lisa Simpson]

Again, the Tuskeegee experiment? Not a conspiracy theory. It happened. Therefore, not a theory.

 

[defaultdotxbe]

Please observe this photo of a 10 story building which collapsed. It is probably on the order of 1/40th the size of one twin tower.

1: its not a steel building, a concrete building uses far more concrete for support that a comparably sized steel building would use steel for support, therefore more of the bu9ilding is composed of air

2: its 1/40th the size, which means its also much lighter, it would have hit the ground at a much lower speed, with significantly less force

3: this building appears to have collapsed due to an earthquake, the mechnaics of the collapse could be very different than those of the WTC collapse

in short, this is a false analogy

 

[TruthSeeker1234]

so what you are saying that the building could not have fallen at the spoeed it did without the internal structure being "removed" however any activity on that very same internal structure before the roofline falls is irrelevant?

please explain

Unless you're going to imagine that all the floors got out of the way of the roof, yes, it's irrelevant.

Personally, I think seismic activity is much more consistant with explosives that anything else.

Yes, WTC7 collapsed bottom-up, we all agree on that. I don't think it makes any difference to Kuttler's calc. Intact floors will slow the progression, if only to transfer momentum. Any resistance offered by intact structure, can only slow things down more.

 

[MRegan]

They could have covered it up by saying "they died of disease". If we hadn't won, we wouldn't have known of the crematoriums.

The movie "Conspiracy" (I think it is an HBO movie) is about a meeting several key Nazi's had to decide how they will carry out the Holocaust.
During a tense period of the "debate" one of the members of this panel (a lawyer) brings up this exact point. He says what about Germans married to Jews? If you have all these widows thats obvious. If you grant divorces then you have a paper trail, and on and on.

I know its just a movie and I dont know how many Germans were married to Jews, but it seems a legitimate point.

I would think its hard to make 6+ million human beings just disappear. Police state or no. Stalin failed to do it.

Anyway great movie and sorry for the derail.

 

[defaultdotxbe]

Unless you're going to imagine that all the floors got out of the way of the roof, yes, it's irrelevant.

Personally, I think seismic activity is much more consistant with explosives that anything else.

Yes, WTC7 collapsed bottom-up, we all agree on that. I don't think it makes any difference to Kuttler's calc. Intact floors will slow the progression, if only to transfer momentum. Any resistance offered by intact structure, can only slow things down more.

think about what your saying, if it collapsed bottom up the bottom floors will begin moving at the same time as the roof does, they will hit the ground before the floor above hits them

kuttler assumes no floors moved until the floor above it fell onto it, this would be a top-down collapse

either WTC7 collapsed top-down or bottom-up, you cant have it both ways

 

[defaultdotxbe]

The movie "Conspiracy" (I think it is an HBO movie) is about a meeting several key Nazi's had to decide how they will carry out the Holocaust.
During a tense period of the "debate" one of the members of this panel (a lawyer) brings up this exact point. He says what about Germans married to Jews? If you have all these widows thats obvious. If you grant divorces then you have a paper trail, and on and on.

I know its just a movie and I dont know how many Germans were married to Jews, but it seems a legitimate point.

I would think its hard to make 6+ million human beings just disappear. Police state or no. Stalin failed to do it.

Anyway great movie and sorry for the derail.

sorry to keep a derail going, but i would think any german married to a jew was considered no better an a jew and suffered the same fate (this is just speculation, but given the attitudes it makes sense)

 

[TruthSeeker1234]

1: its not a steel building, a concrete building uses far more concrete for support that a comparably sized steel building would use steel for support, therefore more of the bu9ilding is composed of air

2: its 1/40th the size, which means its also much lighter, it would have hit the ground at a much lower speed, with significantly less force

3: this building appears to have collapsed due to an earthquake, the mechnaics of the collapse could be very different than those of the WTC collapse

in short, this is a false analogy

According to Judy Wood, if all the concrete and steel from one twin tower were compressed into a block with no air, it would be 200' x 200' by 66'. This does not account for any of the other contents of the building.

Disintegration is the only word for what occured to the twin towers. Collapse? Ha. Fell down ??!?? Nonsense.

 

[TruthSeeker1234]

2: its 1/40th the size, which means its also much lighter, it would have hit the ground at a much lower speed, with significantly less force

The twin towers did not disintegrate when they hit the ground, they disintegrated in mid air, systematically. Please observe. What you imagine is evocative, but not what occured.

 

[WildCat]

The twin towers did not disintegrate when they hit the ground, they disintegrated in mid air, systematically. Please observe. What you imagine is evocative, but not what occured.

If you weren't 100% wrong, you'd be right. Fight the power!

 

[defaultdotxbe]

According to Judy Wood, if all the concrete and steel from one twin tower were compressed into a block with no air, it would be 200' x 200' by 66'. This does not account for any of the other contents of the building.

Disintegration is the only word for what occured to the twin towers. Collapse? Ha. Fell down ??!?? Nonsense.

judy wood also thinks the keebler elves were playing billiards in the WTC when hologram planes hit it

 

[CurtC]

According to Judy Wood, if all the concrete and steel from one twin tower were compressed into a block with no air, it would be 200' x 200' by 66'.

So if you swept up all the rubble from one tower's collapse into a 200' x 200' square, you don't think it would be 66' tall? Remember, it spread out hundreds of feet all around.

 

[Oliver]

The Holocaust was the direct result of a paranoid conspiracy theory, the Nazi belief that there was a vast Jewish conspiracy aimed at world domination and that all of humanity's problems could be explained by the existence of that conspiracy.

*snip*

It's that way of thinking that leads to the KZ and the Gulag, not reality-based skepticism.

No - the Holocaust was the result of a general distrust and jealousness to the jewish success in financial issues within a economy depression. This general thinking was pushed by the Nazis in a very ugly way to give them the face of an enemy within the own state.

Hitler did some radical things to raise the economy and people started to trust him because they saw that things get better. However - Hitler pushed his personal hate against jewish people and people also believed in this words, too - because of the general distrust in jewish people.

It had nothing to do with a conspiracy that people believed in - not from what i´ve learned about the issue. I have no clue at wich point the "jewish conspiracy" started and for what reason. I even didn´t know much about the zionism before i listened to boards, websites and radio-shows after seeing Loose Change - 3 months ago.

But my "alarm bells" are ringing if i hear such ideas like Eric "i did not do much research about the holocaust " Hufschmids: "Holohoax - Joooos did it".

 

[Sword_Of_Truth]

So if you swept up all the rubble from one tower's collapse into a 200' x 200' square, you don't think it would be 66' tall? Remember, it spread out hundreds of feet all around.

Yet at the same time collapsed into it's own footprint.