• Security incident: ISF was recently accessed by intruders. Please change your password, and change it anywhere else you used it. Read more

Merged Apollo "hoax" discussion / Lick observatory laser saga

Status
Not open for further replies.
Haven't any of these people been up on charges for anything at some point? Being able to provide evidence of a conspiracy to defraud the public out of billions would likely get anyone off of anything up to and including capital murder.

I had an Apollo denier on another board tell me that the Obama administration faked every space mission from Apollo to ISS! Lol

Wow. Obama must've been one devious 7-year old.
 
(from post #8600)
You failed to provide the requested proof that I am a paid government disinformation agent.
You said that you knew from experience that just transporting and placing dust-free sand would cause enough erosion to create a dust cloud when the sand is driven over.
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8135606&postcount=7907
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8144391&postcount=7990

All the people I know with backgrounds in geology laughed when I told them about that.

Also, your position on the Chinese spacewalk is that it was real when any seventh grader can see that it was faked.
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8452301&postcount=8545

You obviously don't believe your own arguments. That's only circumstantial evidence but who else would say such lame things?

You also refused to address the flag issue and the issue of the swinging jacket corner when the astronauts were supposed to be in zero-G
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8033032&postcount=1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymwE1sNm82Y
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7yc2rVOs00

It's so clear that footage was faked that you don't even dare address it. Your behavior is the classic behavior of a disinfo agent. Why else would you behave that way?
 
Haven't any of these people been up on charges for anything at some point? Being able to provide evidence of a conspiracy to defraud the public out of billions would likely get anyone off of anything up to and including capital murder.



Wow. Obama must've been one devious 7-year old.

Either that or time travel. :P

Yeah, that's it. They can't safely get man to the moon, but they can send a man, one very special man, back through time!
 
(from post #8600)

You said that you knew from experience that just transporting and placing dust-free sand would cause enough erosion to create a dust cloud when the sand is driven over.
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8135606&postcount=7907
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8144391&postcount=7990

All the people I know with backgrounds in geology laughed when I told them about that.

The problem in this statement is bolded for your convenience. A geologist, or more properly "someone with a background in geology" since I doubt you know any true geologists, does not have experience with the practical applications of transporting sand. That is the province of engineers.

ETA: As for the rest of your post, which I won't bother to quote, did you ever stop to think that perhaps your old tired rehashed arguments aren't being addressed because they've been addressed dozens of times already? Equally, your statement that "You obviously don't believe your own arguments" is a flat-out lie and I know Jay has demanded you either prove it or retract it. Just repeating the claim does not make it true.
 
Last edited:
...your position on the Chinese spacewalk is that it was real when any seventh grader can see that it was faked.

The Chinese spacewalk was real. Your position on it is hilarious.


<edit> PS Does anyone know why it is that FF88 needs to believe the Chinese didn't make a spacewalk? Would it undermine his Apollo fantasy in some way, or does he just think the Chinese simply couldn't achieve such a thing despite being the world's second largest economy and the US and Soviet Union having achieved it half a century ago?
 
Last edited:
The problem in this statement is bolded for your convenience. A geologist, or more properly "someone with a background in geology" since I doubt you know any true geologists, does not have experience with the practical applications of transporting sand. That is the province of engineers.

ETA: As for the rest of your post, which I won't bother to quote, did you ever stop to think that perhaps your old tired rehashed arguments aren't being addressed because they've been addressed dozens of times already? Equally, your statement that "You obviously don't believe your own arguments" is a flat-out lie and I know Jay has demanded you either prove it or retract it. Just repeating the claim does not make it true.

The Moon is actually made out of Stilton, I know that for a fact I have talked with learned people with a background in Stiltonology and the study of all interstellar cheesy substances.
 
<edit> PS Does anyone know why it is that FF88 needs to believe the Chinese didn't make a spacewalk? Would it undermine his Apollo fantasy in some way, or does he just think the Chinese simply couldn't achieve such a thing despite being the world's second largest economy and the US and Soviet Union having achieved it half a century ago?


It's for purposes of his loyalty test. In his mind, as soon as you say you believe the Chinese space walk happened as advertised, he has a handy excuse to ignore everything else you say, because, again in his mind, it's so blatantly obvious that it was faked that only a disinformation agent would claim otherwise. :rolleyes:
 
(from post #8600)You said that you knew from experience that just transporting and placing dust-free sand would cause enough erosion to create a dust cloud when the sand is driven over.

Yes. I have that experience, and you have done absolutely nothing to undermine or refute that. Everyone sees this but you.

All the people I know with backgrounds in geology laughed when I told them about that.

Irrelevant. Geology does not concern itself with the manufacture, handling, and transportation of milled aggregates. "People with backgrounds in geology" are not relevant experts. None described having any experience handling aggregates. I explained this earlier, but you ignored it entirely.

Also, your position on the Chinese spacewalk is that it was real when any seventh grader can see that it was faked.

No, you simply beg that question. In any case it's another one of your meaningless loyalty tests that has nothing to do with your Moon hoax claims. It's simply another excuse for you to ignore your critics.

You obviously don't believe your own arguments. That's only circumstantial evidence but who else would say such lame things?

I'm glad that you admit your "evidence" is actually just your inference. Who else would say such things? Someone who, despite your lies and delusions, actually does believe his own arguments. Your delusions to the contrary do not constitute a basis for calling me a liar, and your admission that your evidence is indirect at best is suitable proof that your misrepresentation is deliberate. Hence I continue to hold you personally responsible for your deliberate and libelous misrepresentation of me.

You also refused to address the flag issue...

No, I refuse to debate you because you are delusional. There's a difference between having an interest in the issue and realizing that one's opponent is delusional beyond reach.

There will be no debate with you on any point so long as you continue to accuse me of not believing my own arguments and of being a paid disinformation agent, for which you admit you have no evidence.

It's so clear that footage was faked that you don't even dare address it.

Again, begging the question. I don't debate you on the flag issue because debate with you is pointless. You have absolutely no interest in what I might have to say on the issue. Based on past experience with you, anything I say would be dismissed as disinformation regardless of how well-argued it is, and you will simply use it as another example of how disagreement with you means others are necessarily lying.

Your behavior is the classic behavior of a disinfo agent. Why else would you behave that way?

I have explained my behavior. You simply choose to believe otherwise. Thank you for admitting that you have absolutely no direct evidence that I am a disinformation agent and that you are simply inferring it.

I will give you one last chance to provide evidence or retract your claim before I take action to redress your deliberate lies. Put up or shut up.
 
Your behavior is the classic behavior of a disinfo agent. Why else would you behave that way?

You're kidding. You really can't think of any other reason? Really?

Maybe it is because Jay has the knowledge and experience (which you clearly lack) to know Apollo happened as advertised, and you are plain flat out wrong.
 
A geologist, or more properly "someone with a background in geology" since I doubt you know any true geologists, does not have experience with the practical applications of transporting sand. That is the province of engineers.

FF88 has been pushing his Magic Sand theory for more than 5 years. He's been told by three different professional engineers that it won't work, and the detailed reasons why. But naturally he dismissed their expertise because they wouldn't agree with him that 9/11 was an inside job. No really, that was the reason.

His "expert" testimony to the contrary is the anonymous postings of people on a geology web forum who, incidentally, also think he's nuts for believing in hoaxed Moon landings. He left that part out. Apparently he fails their loyalty test, but that doesn't stop him from misusing their statements.
 
Quote:
You failed to provide the requested proof that I am a paid government disinformation agent
.
{SPAM links removed}

You said that you knew from experience that just transporting and placing dust-free sand would cause enough erosion to create a dust cloud when the sand is driven over.

All the people I know with backgrounds in geology laughed when I told them about that.

Also, your position on the Chinese spacewalk is that it was real when any seventh grader can see that it was faked.

You obviously don't believe your own arguments. That's only circumstantial evidence but who else would say such lame things?

You also refused to address the flag issue and the issue of the swinging jacket corner when the astronauts were supposed to be in zero-G

It's so clear that footage was faked that you don't even dare address it. Your behavior is the classic behavior of a disinfo agent. Why else would you behave that way?

IOW you do not have any evidence other than your personal opinion.

Got it;)
 
FF88 has been pushing his Magic Sand theory for more than 5 years. He's been told by three different professional engineers that it won't work, and the detailed reasons why. But naturally he dismissed their expertise because they wouldn't agree with him that 9/11 was an inside job. No really, that was the reason.

His "expert" testimony to the contrary is the anonymous postings of people on a geology web forum who, incidentally, also think he's nuts for believing in hoaxed Moon landings. He left that part out. Apparently he fails their loyalty test, but that doesn't stop him from misusing their statements.

Yeah, I'm well aware of Freddy's requirement that one agree with him before he will accept any of one's other statements. You see, Freddy, I have read the thread, I am familiar with your tactics, and I am not a sockpuppet of any other member here, as I believe you made a veiled reference to when the old lurkers poll was brought up (which I also voted in, btw). But of course, because I fail whichever loyalty test you would choose to apply, I know you won't believe me.
 
Two mutually exclusive statements illustrating that FF88 does not allow for opinion contradictory to his own.
.....anyone who tries to obfuscate it or refuses to address the issue is obviously less-than-objective and therefore unfit to analyze the Apollo footage and pictures.

...........The viewers can decide for themselves.

(from post #8600)

You obviously don't believe your own arguments.

The irony makes my head swim. :eek:
 
(from post #8600)

You said that you knew from experience that just transporting and placing dust-free sand would cause enough erosion to create a dust cloud when the sand is driven over...
All the people I know with backgrounds in geology laughed when I told them about that.
Really? Who did you talk to? Because going back to post 7985, one guy seemed to agree with you; others disagreed or had inconclusive opinions; another guy whose endorsement you assumed said "the moon hoax is a stupid idea" and that you were "putting words in [his] mouth". (Note that you said "Putting words in someone's mouth is a very low tactic", so shame on you.)

1. What other persons with "backgrounds in geology" have you talked with, and what are their qualifications?
2. Why is geology the most relevant discipline for evaluating this question?
3. Why did you trumpet the apparent endorsement of one source but not mention the explicit disavowal of another?

You obviously don't believe your own arguments. That's only circumstantial evidence but who else would say such lame things?...
...Your behavior is the classic behavior of a disinfo agent. Why else would you behave that way?

OK, let's evaluate your behavior according to your criteria:

...an ability to persevere and persist even in the face of overwhelming criticism and non-acceptance.
This fits you perfectly: You have been posting the same thing for years. Everywhere where you post, you get told you are wrong - even the "lurkers" you claimed support you have overwhelmingly rejected your arguments, and several have directly questioned your sanity. But you persist in repeating yourself and spamming the same links over and over again.

This likely stems from intelligence community training that, no matter how condemning the evidence, deny everything,...
"We can't know that." "That evidence could be faked." "It never went there." "We don't know that." "Everything they say is a lie." "You can't say that you believe that with a straight face."

All in the face of detailed explanations by informed laymen - which you are not - and by actual experts with hands-on space flight experience.

Yes, this one fits you perfectly too.

...no amount of criticism will deter them from doing their job, and they will generally continue their old disinfo patterns without any adjustments to criticisms of how obvious it is that they play that game -- where a more rational individual who truly cares what others think might seek to improve their communications style, substance, and so forth.

Again, this is you exactly. In your years of posting, you have never altered your pattern of behavior, never altered your fanatical insistence that anyone who disagrees with you is a liar, never taken the time to learn anything about the science or engineering involved, and you constantly spam the same links over and over again. You continually dodge questions, misrepresent answers, and regurgitate the same claims from random web sites, even when they contradict you.

rocky/DavidC/FF88/etc. said:
You people have authoritative patronizing attitudes...
"If I were in your place, I'd probably use the same avoidance tactic as it attracts less attention. It's pretty clear that you know as well as hoax-believers that the moon missions were faked, or you wouldn't avoid these clear impossible-to-obfuscate-without-looking-silly issues."
"None of you has any credibility. All of you obviously know that the moon missions were faked as well as the hoax-believers do."
"Any sixth-grader could see this."

Yes, that's you alright.

You clearly fit your criteria for being a "disinfo agent", and since you spend so much time on so many web sites vomiting third-hand arguments, you must be getting paid to do so. Don't whine about it; I'm using your reasoning.

4. According to your criteria, you are a paid disinformation agent. Can you prove otherwise?

Worst of all, you continually employ that tool used by repressive regimes and anti-free thought thugs everywhere to stifle dissent and demonize the opposition: the loyalty test. "If you don't believe this video is a fraud, you are a liar". "If you agree with his opinion, you obviously don't believe what you are saying."

Where have I heard that before? Let's see, "If you're not with us, you're against us."

You hypocrite.

5. Please explain why you rely on loyalty tests while you lambaste others for not being free thinkers.

Oh, and in case you haven't noticed it the first umpty-ump times I've asked,

6. You've said you live in Madrid. So you must not be far at all from Fresnedillas, right?
 
Yeah, I'm well aware of Freddy's requirement that one agree with him before he will accept any of one's other statements. You see, Freddy, I have read the thread, I am familiar with your tactics, and I am not a sockpuppet of any other member here, as I believe you made a veiled reference to when the old lurkers poll was brought up (which I also voted in, btw). But of course, because I fail whichever loyalty test you would choose to apply, I know you won't believe me.

Twice now I have also 'failed' his loyalty test by simply not answering. Not only must one not disagree with him, one must publically declare agreement, otherwise one is automatically disloyal and not objective.
 
What's so significant about Fresnedillas?

*Googles*

I mean, aside from it having a tracking station that followed the Apollo missions.
 
Yes let's look at that old Mike Collins jacket baloney, not in terms of the behaviour of the jacket (which as any other 7 year old girl can see is behaving perfectly consistently with a zero gravity environment as experienced in cislunar space), but in terms of the way the evidence is cherry picked and taken out of context to tell lies.

Collins' exercise sequence is taken from a broadcast to Earth made 30 hours into the mission. You can see the footage that was recorded from that broadcast in the Apollo 11 facts project video available on youtube and also for download here http://archive.org/details/VJSC_1425H

The segment featuring the jacket actually starts about 32 minutes and 35 seconds into the video compilation, and for a good few minutes is just continuous footage of Buzz faffing about with the camera. The first voice comms come in at 35:55 with capcom's "Houston Apollo 11", which can be timed from the transcript as 30h51m11s.

There is movement in the background, which is Collins starting his exercise routine. We then have continuous footage (from a camera being thrown around) showing him running on the spot, even when the camera is focussed on Armstrong trying to turn in zero G to show off the mission patch. That particular sequence ends at 39:15 in the video, or 30h54m27s.

The next sequence in the broadcast shows the Earth. We'll deal with that in a moment, and the audio confirms that there has been a gap of roughly 4 minutes between the end of the exercise clip and the footage of Earth. After much messing with the camera and discussion of the image quality, the broadcast ends with a long clip, starting with that same view of Earth and ending inside the LM and showing some nice weightless astronauts. At the end of the clip the mission time is 31h14m47s and the video clip time is 49:47, so we have about 25 minutes of mission time covered by just over 17 minutes of video. During that time we have footage of weightless astronauts and a couple of clips of Earth.

Goldstone in California are the ones receiving the video, and this is referred to in the audio, so we should be able to see California right? And obviously at this time in the mission (call it 20:45 GMT towards the end of the broadcast) the sun would be setting over the south American coast.

Is that confirmed by what you can see on the view of Earth? And is that view of Earth consistent with what the satellite imagery says should be there? It's back to the little gem again:

littlegem.jpg


So I'm sorry fatty, but I'm afraid I have failed your loyalty test. I'd rather fail that than fail at presenting a discredited argument.
 
Twice now I have also 'failed' his loyalty test by simply not answering.

Yes, if you don't give any answer, then that proves you're unwilling to prove your loyalty and he'll assume a disfavorable answer on your behalf.

Five years ago, on the question of 9/11 being an inside job, I refused to answer. On those grounds alone FF88 concluded I was not trustworthy enough to listen to on the subject of the behavior of aggregate particulates (i.e., his Magic Sand theory). His insistence that I had to weigh in on his 9/11 conspiracy theory before he would address my rebuttal led to his ban from that forum.

Since then, under various pseudonyms, he has roamed the 'net telling everyone who'll listen just what a despicable person I am, borrowing liberally of course from Jarrah White who's been trying to beat that hateful drum since 2004. How delighted he must be to have found someone "with knowledge" who he can say agrees with him (even if he has to put words in the guy's mouth to do it) against the evil Jay Windley. In his mind, this vindicates his previous ban and validates his Magic Sand theory.

On the subject of the Chinese spacewalk, I haven't said anything. As promised, I completely ignored his frantic demands that I render an opinion. That hasn't stopped him from assuming that I consider it genuine and from beating me over the head (again) with his accusations solely because the position he inferred for me didn't match his inextricably entrenched belief.

It's either disturbing or amusing (depending on your perspective) that he continues to ask me by name for my opinions on his various assertions. It's obvious he doesn't care what I think. It's obvious he already dismisses everything I say as paid disinfo. So why the continued personal obsession over me?
 
It's either disturbing or amusing (depending on your perspective) that he continues to ask me by name for my opinions on his various assertions. It's obvious he doesn't care what I think. It's obvious he already dismisses everything I say as paid disinfo. So why the continued personal obsession over me?

Because if he can catch the great Jay Windley in a lie, well, by golly, that obviously proves that Apollo is a hoax. Yet again. Somehow.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

ISF - Join now!

Every member here is approved by hand. No bots, no spam, just people who care about evidence and honest debate.

Membership is free!

Create your free account

Back
Top Bottom