Merged Apollo "hoax" discussion / Lick observatory laser saga

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the Earth in that shot matches exactly every satellite image taken on that day,before the satellite images were actually taken. Likewise all the video footage matches exactly the satellite images. The first transmission made on the 16th shows a hurricane that can only have been taken on that day and can only have been taken in cislunar space. Jarrah's claims are lies.
This isn't necessarily true as records can be altered. This also doesn't make the mountain of hoax evidence go away.
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8033032&postcount=1
(bottom link)

This is how pro-Apollo people lose debates. They refuse to answer questions that will make them look silly if they support the NASA version such as those about the anomalies in the Chinese spacewalk. They change the subject and tap dance around until the person asking the questions gets tired, or banned and then go on as if nothing had happened. If you're an objective truth-seeker, tell us whether you agree with Betamax on the buoyant safety cable issue.

You can pretend all you want but you all look very silly when you refuse to say whether you agree with BetaMax's analysis.
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8452301&postcount=8545
 
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you have not answered this question FF

if I disagreed with him how would that prove fakery?

You assume your interpretations are correct and extrapolate that to meaning all others are unworthy of consideration
that is illogical

Also, you have refused to say whether or not you agree with BetaMax which shows that you are less-than-objective and therefore unfit to analyze Apollo footage and pictures. Please say whether you agree with BetaMax.

I detect a goalpost shifting...

So not only is a person who agrees with BetaMax unworthy of consideration, one who will not divulge an opinion on it also is unworthy. In fact ONLy those persons who agree with you can possibly have anything relevant to offer and can be considered worthy.

That is the pinnacle of egotistical reasoning FF88, and yet you have displayed absolutly no reason to assume you have the credibility that would warrent such a "Sheldon Cooper"-ish ego.
 
This isn't necessarily true as records can be altered. This also doesn't make the mountain of hoax evidence go away.
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8033032&postcount=1
(bottom link)

This is how pro-Apollo people lose debates. They refuse to answer questions that will make them look silly if they support the NASA version such as those about the anomalies in the Chinese spacewalk. They change the subject and tap dance around until the person asking the questions gets tired, or banned and then go on as if nothing had happened. If you're an objective truth-seeker, tell us whether you agree with Betamax on the buoyant safety cable issue.

You can pretend all you want but you all look very silly when you refuse to say whether you agree with BetaMax's analysis.
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8452301&postcount=8545

Yet you refuse to inform me how disagreeing with BetaMax would prove fakery. Is that how YOU lose an arguement FF88?

anyway, suppertime, bye!
 
Here's a pro-Apollo person who finally agreed with me when he saw he couldn't tire me out and bury the issue.
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8141778&postcount=7982


I didn't say it was impossible. I said this particular spacewalk was faked. The evidence is too clear. Here it is.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=NVbBFwdmldA
http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=kG4Z_r38ZDE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lBL98p0wZ7g
http://en.epochtimes.com/n2/content/view/8332/
http://www.theepochtimes.com/n2/content/view/5809/

In this video the safety cable is obviously buoyant. It has a distinct tendency to to upward.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=ES&hl=es&v=gMxQEHfU6hM

Watch it at these time marks.
0:50
2:10
3:00
3:10
6:08
6:44
6:53

It's going upward because it's slightly lighter than water.

At the thirty second mark in this clip the astronaut moves the flag from right to left.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvpPknmHGAM

The flag flutters the way it would in a medium such as water.

The fast flag movement can be explained by sped-up video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lBL98p0wZ7g
(1:55 time mark)
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Tell us if you agree with BetaMax's explanation for the buoyant safety cables. Click on this link...
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8139186&postcount=7954

...and click on the bottom link of the post. Go to page 12 of that thread and read his explanation.

Part of my evidence that you people don't even believe your own arguments about Apollo is that you maintain that this spacewalk was real. This was so obviously faked that only a sophist would try to make people think it was real.

Here's my quote from post #8364 again.

Now try to infer what I think is going on here. You know I dare not say it directly.

edit-
-----------------------
Regarding the above post–photos and video can be taken by unmanned craft so your photos and video don't prove there were people at that distance from the earth.

You avoided the question. You seem to want to bury it to avoid it. You think they faked it. There must have been a reason why. What is it? What is so hard about a space walk that they must have faked it? You ignored the other parts of the question. What about the square bubbles? And your mythical wave blowers?

Part of my evidence that you are not a real person and only a program is that you avoid questions you don't like, copy and paste answers to others that never really answer those either and never acknowledge the accusation that you are only a simple program. What do you say to that?
 
...At the thirty second mark in this clip the astronaut moves the flag from right to left.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvpPknmHGAM

The flag flutters the way it would in a medium such as water.

I knew I'd regret it, but I followed the link.

I couldn't believe my eyes. A spacesuited Chinese astronaut waving a flag in what looks to me exactly unlike a medium such as water, or even air.

But if you ignore the whole sequence except for one single cherry-picked moment, then you can select the one single motion where the flag happens to fold in a way which accidentally resembles movement in a fluid.

This requires the viewer to ignore the fact that this is one single waving motion in a continuous sequence which looks utterly unlike it's underwater.

It may not be the most retarded 'evidence' presented in this dumb-packed thread, but it's a spectacular entry in the pantheon of stupid.
 
All you people can do now is post empty rhetoric and, when I finally disappear because I get tired or banned, you'll go on as if nothing had happened.
None of you dares to say whether you agree with BetaMax's analysis of the buoyant safety cables that I keep requesting that you do because you know he's so obviously wrong that you'll just end up looking silly if you agree with him.
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8452301&postcount=8545

You can pretend all you want but you've lost this debate. Your behavior would get you laughed out of the debating hall.

you keep mentioning a debating hall. You do realize that the real world is NOT a debating hall right? And if for some crazy reason it was, that it is YOU who would laughed out for
-constantly accusing those who don't agree with you of being liars,
-repeatedly claiming your detractors would be "laughed out of a debating hall when there is clearly not one here (a debating hall would require YOU to actually debate, not accuse and ignore which is all you do)
-trying to argue that because you think something is "plausible" (which you never actually show) that it means it happened,
-avoiding multiple direct questions and accusations,
-copy/pasting every argument, every time,
-claiming the "viewers" support you when it has been shown on multiple threads/forums that they clearly do not

did you have a bad experience in high school on debating team? Are you still trying to prove to the teacher that you were a good debater? Or are you just a program that must repeat the lame "laughed out of a mythical debating hall" every so often?
 
This isn't necessarily true as records can be altered.

[spam removed]

Seven year old girl it is then.

Still no answers. Which records can be altered? The live TV records? The satellite images? Which records were altered? By whom? What were the records originally?

All you have is the base assumption that it was faked. If any evidence doesn't fit your assumption then that was also faked. Anyone who says otherwise is faking. It's a pointless self-fulfilling argument. You're refusing to debate until I agree with you? Why would I do that when I think you are utterly wrong?

I already told you I'm not playing your stupid games. I raised specific points about a specific aspect of the Apollo debate and you are trying to divert attention away from your own ignorance of that topic by throwing in red herrings and strawmen and pretty much anything you can think of.

Jarrah's little cock (and I could end that sentence right there) and bulll story about the TV transmission? That camera test broadcast (along with the others) is available in full on the youtube channel I posted. The satellite record, which didn't exist when his little gem was filmed because the two satellites I have are polar orbital and filmed the earth in segments. Jarrah clearly believes it was filmed by a person, not a probe, so how does he explain the fact that it is a perfect match for satellite images that weren't taken when the footage was recorded?

littlegem.jpg
 
They refuse to answer questions........

They change the subject......

The guy who made that China faked the spacewalk film is a pro-Apollo supporter. Credibility meet toilet.

How do bubbles rotate from flat to squiggly?

How does a bubble gain what looks like 4-5 times bigger size in 2 metres "rising in water"?

Show some credible evidence for the use of wave-blowers in neutral buoyancy?


You are one of the most useless debaters I have come across, you ignore so much you would get escorted out of the debating hall to the stocks.

If you're an objective truth-seeker, tell us whether you agree with Betamax on the buoyant safety cable issue.

You can pretend all you want but you all look very silly when you refuse to say whether you agree with BetaMax's analysis.

What the hell is it with you and your fixations? Just because this betamax bloke totally obliterated your whole wall of spam, no need to get all "silly" about it.:rolleyes:

http://debunking-a-moron.blogspot.co.uk/
 
This isn't necessarily true as records can be altered.
Nice when you can arbitrarily redefine what is fact or not.

This also doesn't make the mountain of hoax evidence go away.
Since there is zero evidence for a hoax, one has to wonder what you are talking about.

They refuse to answer questions that will make them look silly if they support the NASA version such as those about the anomalies in the Chinese spacewalk. They change the subject and tap dance around until the person asking the questions gets tired, or banned and then go on as if nothing had happened.
Strange but you've described to a "T" what conspiracy theorists of all stripes do when they encounter facts and evidence. Maybe you can provide some examples to support your claim debunkers do the same?
 
This is how pro-Apollo people lose debates. They refuse to answer questions that will make them look silly...

Really, folks...is there any need to continue?...except to recommend a good mental health professional?


FF saps the life out of this place by ignoring everyone else...he isn't interested in discussion, only a monologue.

I understand now that we only impower him by responding to him...he'll never behave, so why should we be his "sounding board"


Boycot this thread...everyone...let him post to himself...it may take a while, but eventually he will get tired of talking to himself.


It's the only way.....
 
Really, folks...is there any need to continue?...except to recommend a good mental health professional?


FF saps the life out of this place by ignoring everyone else...he isn't interested in discussion, only a monologue.

I understand now that we only impower him by responding to him...he'll never behave, so why should we be his "sounding board"


Boycot this thread...everyone...let him post to himself...it may take a while, but eventually he will get tired of talking to himself.


It's the only way.....

Part of me agrees with you: let him drool away in his own little internet padded cell mumbling to himself - his whole approach to the topic, and view of the world, is so warped and beneath contempt that it is not worthy of soiling my screen with its empty rhetoric.

However one of the reasons I post on this subject, here and elsewhere, is because you can't say "I told you so" if you haven't told them so. I don't see why lies should be allowed to stand unchallenged, or why people like the fat one should be allowed to dominate a debate and achieve what they will see as a victory. Silence in the face of their lies will be seen as acknowledgement of their validity. Let them be hoist by their own petards in public. People who are neutral, or new, in the discussion should not get the impression that there is no answer to this bilge.

I will continue to weigh down the sack of their philosophy with the rocks of facts until the kitten of their existence drowns.
 
I was going to answer FF88’s post, but elected not to. Not because his post was hilarious at best, but because most of the intelligent posters have taken him apart piece by piece.

There are a number of posters on this forum that have an in depth knowledge of aeronautics. Some are pilots, some are not. But one does not have to be a pilot to have knowledge of aeronautics, or space flight.

Yet Fat Freddy thinks that all of these knowledgeable posters are disinfo agents or liars. Why is that? What proof has he offered that would make his point? If this thread occurred before the existence of You Tube, FF88 wouldn’t be able to post anything.

BTW FF88, do you have any experience in the field of aeronautics or space flight? If you don’t, I hope you won’t mind if I listen to those who do.
 
Yet you refuse to inform me how disagreeing with BetaMax would prove fakery. Is that how YOU lose an arguement FF88?
I never said it did. NASA's official position on the Chinese spacewalk is that it was real. If it was obviously faked, shouldn't we wonder about NASA? Also, the Chinese spacewalk makes a good objectivity test. The proof that it was faked is so clear that anyone who tries to obfuscate it or refuses to address the issue is obviously less-than-objective and therefore unfit to analyze the Apollo footage and pictures. That pretty much covers all of the pro-Apollo posters here.

What about the square bubbles?
It looks like a bubble to me.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=ES&hl=es&v=NVbBFwdmldA
(2:05 time mark)
The viewers can decide for themselves. It slides along the visor and goes upward at the exact point a bubble would.

And your mythical wave blowers?
Just because nothing comes up when I goggle "Wave blowers" doesn't mean they're mythical. You haven't proven they don't exist. Check out this video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IW__oOciq2c

Anyway, there is some super-clear proof such as the buoyant safety cables. It's such clear proof that you people all refuse to address it.

But if you ignore the whole sequence except for one single cherry-picked moment, then you can select the one single motion where the flag happens to fold in a way which accidentally resembles movement in a fluid.

This requires the viewer to ignore the fact that this is one single waving motion in a continuous sequence which looks utterly unlike it's underwater.
Some of the footage was sped-up. The movement you say is not consistent with movemet is water would look consistent if slowed-down.

Which records can be altered? The live TV records? The satellite images? Which records were altered? By whom? What were the records originally?
http://www.opposingdigits.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1222
(exerpt)
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19. Ignore proof presented, demand impossible proofs. This is perhaps a variant of the "play dumb" rule. Regardless of what material may be presented by an opponent in public forums, claim the material irrelevant and demand proof that is impossible for the opponent to come by (it may exist, but not be at his disposal, or it may be something which is known to be safely destroyed or withheld, such as a murder weapon). In order to completely avoid discussing issues may require you to categorically deny and be critical of media or books as valid sources, deny that witnesses are acceptable, or even deny that statements made by government or other authorities have any meaning or relevance.
-----------------------------------------------------

My not having access to classified info doesn't mean it couldn't have happened. The government can manipulate any data it wants to so any records saying such-and-such a thing happened cannot be used as proof of anything. You have an authoritative patronizing attitude but what you're actually saying is pretty lame.

The guy who made that China faked the spacewalk film is a pro-Apollo supporter. Credibility meet toilet.
I addressed that issue at the bottom of this post.
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8166034&postcount=8032

How does a bubble gain what looks like 4-5 times bigger size in 2 metres "rising in water"?
As bubbles get closer to the camera, the look bigger. They also grow in size as water pressure decreases. Let's hear your analysis of the buoyant safety cables.
 
It looks like a bubble to me.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=ES&hl=es&v=NVbBFwdmldA
(2:05 time mark)
The viewers can decide for themselves. It slides along the visor and goes upward at the exact point a bubble would.
Those viewers that supposedly support you but have been proven to not exist?

In your SAME video those "viewers" can see these "bubbles" take on square and rectangular shapes. Nice how your own source shows you're wrong. Nice how you cherry-pick what you wanted to see.

Just because nothing comes up when I goggle "Wave blowers" doesn't mean they're mythical. You haven't proven they don't exist. Check out this video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IW__oOciq2c
YOU haven't proven they do. Do you know anything about the burden of proof? Somebody's homemade toy on youtube is not proof they have EVER been used anywhere else.
 
NASA's official position on the Chinese spacewalk is that it was real. If it was obviously faked, shouldn't we wonder about NASA?

Truly pathetic circular reasoning. The spacewalk was not faked. The flag spinning unrestricted in a vacuum is not even close to being possible AT ANY SPEED in water.

Also, the Chinese spacewalk makes a good objectivity test. The proof that it was faked is so clear that anyone who tries to obfuscate it or refuses to address the issue is obviously less-than-objective and therefore unfit to analyze the Apollo footage and pictures. That pretty much covers all of the pro-Apollo posters here.

More idiotic circular reasoning, especially in view of your "analysis" of why the guy who made the video is pro-Apollo - "he was got at":rolleyes: Your response would create guffaws of laughter from the people who decide whether you are eligible to be even let in to the debating hall!

It looks like a bubble to me.

bubgif.gif


Orly:boxedin:

The viewers can decide for themselves.

They all think it's a piece of space debris, maybe a piece of ice.

It slides along the visor and goes upward at the exact point a bubble would.

Rubbish, it comes towards the camera and doesn't go straight up as a bubble would.

Just because nothing comes up when I goggle "Wave blowers" doesn't mean they're mythical. You haven't proven they don't exist. Check out this video...snipped

Ridiculous I don't need to prove something that doesn't exist, doesn't exist! They don't exist because they aren't even theoretically feasible. Currents in water don't magically stop moving when they find something. Using them as a means to support is just moronic when there is a proven method widely used already.

Negative buoyancy is performed with weights. Using imaginary crap to do something that wouldn't even work is patently absurd.

Anyway, there is some super-clear proof such as the buoyant safety cables. It's such clear proof that you people all refuse to address it.

There is nothing to address. Things in freefall are subject to a freedom not afforded with gravity. The cable goes in all sorts of directions and you obviously "don't believe your own argument"TM
Some of the footage was sped-up. The movement you say is not consistent with movemet is water would look consistent if slowed-down.

Rubbish. Some of us check things like that out. You make all these claims, yet never put video up to demonstrate it. You are lying.

My not having access to classified info doesn't mean it couldn't have happened. The government can manipulate any data it wants to so any records saying such-and-such a thing happened cannot be used as proof of anything.

Ebil gubmint and magic all encompassing pwoof noted.

You have an authoritative patronizing attitude but what you're actually saying is pretty lame.

You demonstrate why conspiracy theorists are regarded as complete nutjobs with your inability to see anything that contradicts you.

As bubbles get closer to the camera, the look bigger. They also grow in size as water pressure decreases.

They would grow in size very little over the course of such a movement. The fact the object is coming towards the camera is more than proof enough that it isn't in water. Let alone the flag spinning without the water flapping it about and rippling it and totally unrestricted.

Let's hear your analysis of the buoyant safety cables.

Shape memory is a good explanation, having a buoyant steel cable in water in the first place is a truly pathetic claim. Not one single website, scientific article or actual working model supports this stupid wave-blowers idea. Do you know why?

Because he made it up to explain things that made no sense in water. The flag though, closes the case. There are some thing so clear that even the worst sophist(you) and the worst obuscator(you) cannot hide.

Anyway there are a million reasons to support Apollo landing on the Moon, and not one single piece of evidence, that holds up to scruitiny, that says otherwise.
 
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I just decided for myself: It looks like a flake of debris, not a bubble.


No it wouldn't.



I disagree it looks more like a a flakette of stuff instead of a flake of debris, but certainly not a bubble at all

I just decided that for myself.....
 
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