Anyone lost any freedoms?

[joemailman]

For Gumboot

Well I may be a American but it's obvious that you are naive. When push comes to shove all that you consider freedom can be tossed out in the name of whatever controling forces deem dangerous or threatening...and all in the name of whatever they can call it be it national security, executive privilage, preventative measures or etc. etc. To most Americans as well as kiwis this can't and won't become obvious until it happens to them personaly. Freedom still means that which is without influences regardless of where you apply it.

 

[Gravy]

Freedom still means that which is without influences regardless of where you apply it.

Not if you intend to live in a society with others.

 

[gumboot]

What criteria do i have to fulfil to emigrate to New Zealand?
And how is the weather over there?

Start here

The weather has been...interesting lately.

Generally speaking... we have a maritime climate, so it changes a LOT. Depends what part of New Zealand...

The East Coast is very continental - very dry with very cold winters and very hot summers, moreso the further south you go.

We get a lot of rain here, especially in some areas...Auckland is particularly bad - couple of winters ago it rained every single day for 11 weeks.

We tend to have a pretty hot and dry summer from mid Jan to late March.

It's pretty erratic really...

This is what Wikipedia has to say:

The climate throughout the country is mild, mostly cool temperate to warm temperate, with temperatures rarely falling below 0°C (32°F) or rising above 30°C (86°F). Conditions vary from wet and cold on the West Coast of the South Island to dry and continental in the Mackenzie Basin of inland Canterbury and almost subtropical in Northland. Of the main cities, Christchurch is the driest, receiving only some 640 mm (25 in) of rain per year. Auckland, the wettest, receives almost twice that amount.

-Andrew

 

[Oliver]

If a large percentage British people are thinking that way come election time, then yes. And if it does then it will become a major election issue. Public protest on it's own hasnt had much effect on this government. Invading Iraq was very unpopular at the time ( IIRC over 60% of the public opposed it), with massive demonstrations and near rebellion from the governments own back benchers.

BTW, the proposed ID cards are much more than travel documents or confirmation of identity. Under current proposals you would be required to produce them when you see doctor or buy medication from a pharmacy. You would need it when entering government property or transacting any business with a government agency. You would need them to visit an airport or just if policeman stopped you in the street and demanded it. All of these events would be logged and recorded in a government database with varying levels of access to various civil servants. The government propose heavy fines for not carrying the cards.The government has claimed (and then backed down from the claims) that the cards would prevent terrorist attacks, stop welfare fraud and catch illegal immigrants. Even when they admit their reasons are flawed, they are determined to press ahead with this. It amounts to a mandatory electronic tracking device being placed on all citizens. To a mildly paranoid person like me, it's a bit scary. And VERY offensive.

I don´t even know why the British Government joined
the war on error. Was it some kind of boot-licking from
Blair and Co?

Phew - this is strange if so many data is stored about
citizens because this ID-card. I guess people and media here
would protest if it was so intervening here. What did
the media say about it - did they support these
developments?

 

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

Start here

The weather has been...interesting lately.

Generally speaking... we have a maritime climate, so it changes a LOT. Depends what part of New Zealand...

The East Coast is very continental - very dry with very cold winters and very hot summers, moreso the further south you go.

We get a lot of rain here, especially in some areas...Auckland is particularly bad - couple of winters ago it rained every single day for 11 weeks.

We tend to have a pretty hot and dry summer from mid Jan to late March.

It's pretty erratic really...

This is what Wikipedia has to say:



-Andrew

Have you had a chance to check out that random, rare iceberg near y'all?

 

[hellaeon]

Everyone complaining about living in the ol USA and other democratic societies.

Hey, move to sudan.

 

[Oliver]

Start here

The weather has been...interesting lately.

Generally speaking... we have a maritime climate, so it changes a LOT. Depends what part of New Zealand...

The East Coast is very continental - very dry with very cold winters and very hot summers, moreso the further south you go.

We get a lot of rain here, especially in some areas...Auckland is particularly bad - couple of winters ago it rained every single day for 11 weeks.

We tend to have a pretty hot and dry summer from mid Jan to late March.

It's pretty erratic really...

This is what Wikipedia has to say:



-Andrew

I can live with rain if it´s not as ice-cold as here in winter.
What are the coldest temperatures in winter where you live?

 

[hellaeon]

In the USA you have the right to own a gun and can buy it from a local store, thank god that right is much more restrictive in Australia.

Oliver, in winter 12-13 is the coldest and it SUCKS. its a nice 35 here today

 

[Oliver]

In the USA you have the right to own a gun and can buy it from a local store, thank god that right is much more restrictive in Australia.

Oliver, in winter 12-13 is the coldest and it SUCKS. its a nice 35 here today

12 to 13° Celsius in winter is like summer here in
europe... 35° celsius is a littlebit hot but i can
live with that. I guess it´s about 8° right now...

 

[gumboot]

Well I may be a American but it's obvious that you are naive. When push comes to shove all that you consider freedom can be tossed out in the name of whatever controling forces deem dangerous or threatening...and all in the name of whatever they can call it be it national security, executive privilage, preventative measures or etc. etc. To most Americans as well as kiwis this can't and won't become obvious until it happens to them personaly. Freedom still means that which is without influences regardless of where you apply it.

Indeed,

A free society is a form of government which has at its foundation freedom. It possesses political freedoms and human rights. A "free society" is controlled and governed according to rules, principles, or laws (within limits). Openness and clarity are common constraints within which a system of jurisprudence is constructed upon, not choices added at the head of state convenience.

Laws within a free society are "free" when it is known that these are controllable and open to change. A free society also guarantees and makes certain its available sources of community wealth remain free.
Source

Just to clarify again, as clearly you're not reading these posts properly... when people make reference to "freedom" in western society they are talking about "Free Society" not individual personal freedom, which is anarchy.

Got it?

-Gumboot

 

[gumboot]

Have you had a chance to check out that random, rare iceberg near y'all?

They're a good 800 miles south of me, so no...

-Gumboot

 

[Carnivore]

This is a fairly typical American view if you ask me. Selfishness. Self-centered-ness, call it what you want.

Perhaps this is why I find American culture so fascinating. You have a "me" culture. Everything is about the individual. Individual freedoms. Individual rights. Individual success. Individual everything.

New Zealand, by contrast, is the total opposite. Everything is about the "us". Indeed, caring too much about "me" will result in you getting cut down by society.

Neither is perfect of course.

However, I think, personally, that us kiwis are closer to the idea and the value of "freedom" that was given birth by the Ancient Greeks.

"Freedom" is not about YOU being free as an individual. It is about your SOCIETY being free. In the most fundamental sense, being "free" means not being owned. Slavery is the antithesis of freedom. When the Greeks developed their free societies, that was the invention of the concept of citizens. This was in contrast to other societies of the time such as the Persian Empire where everyone was essentially owned by whoever was above them on the chain - so the Emperor owned everyone.

From hence came the concept of a king who was "first amongst equals". Essentially that is what we have in western society, scoff all you want, but it's true.

The President of the US, or the PM of New Zealand, or of the UK, or any other western country is no more above the law than any of the rest of us.

Let's say Bush hopped in a car and went for a drive himself, and got pulled over for speeding...

That can happen because he's "first amongst equals".

What you are talking of is Anarchy. Anarchy is all about personal freedom. But "Freedom" as used, is a description of our SOCIETY. And an Anarchic society is NOT a free society.

To the Brits here... you were talking about the government's ability to carry out surveillance without a warrant on a suspected terrorist... I would assume the laws remain as they are - that being only crimes for which the warrant was given can be prosecuted using evidence gathered from the warrant.

In other words if you get a warrant to carry out surveillance on a suspected murderer, and he talks about some drug dealing, you cannot use that as evidence as the warrant was not for drug dealing...

In which case, were someone under surveillance as a suspected terrorist, evidence gathered from that warrant-less surveillance could only be used as part of a terrorism-related conviction, nothing else.

Am I correct, or not?

-Gumboot

Re NZ culture, as a Kiwi living in Britain I love NZ also, but while I grant you that NZ society is more consensus driven than antagonistic, and more socially aware than some places, calling it the "exact opposite" of US society is over egging the pudding. There is plenty of materialism, "Me culture" and selfish greed. You seem to describe a socialistic utopia that I dont recognize.

As to the concept of the free society, I completely agree with you.

Re surveillance, the UK government wishes to institute permanent indirect surveillance of all citizens by means of a (not very secure) chip and pin smart card. This will make your personal, financial, tax, medical and travel information available to many government employees and anyone who can hack the chip.

 

[gumboot]

I can live with rain if it´s not as ice-cold as here in winter.
What are the coldest temperatures in winter where you live?

Do you mean Auckland specifically?

Auckland has a warm-temperate climate, with warm, humid summers and mild, damp winters. January temperatures average 21-24 °C. February can be warmer than January, but temperatures rarely exceed 30 °C[3] July maximum temperatures average 14-16 °C. High levels of rainfall occur almost year-round (an average of 1249 mm per year), especially in winter. Climatic conditions vary in different parts of the city owing to geography such as hills, land cover and distance from the sea. On 27 July 1939 Auckland received its only snow fall in recorded history.[4] This is unlike some South Island cities like Christchurch, which regularly gets snow down to sea level.

The unusual early morning calm on the isthmus during settled weather, before the sea breeze rises, was described as early as 1853: "In all seasons, the beauty of the day is in the early morning. At that time, generally, a solemn stillness holds, and a perfect calm prevails..." Many Aucklanders use this time of day to walk and run in parks.

I'm not sure if you're familiar with the music group "Crowded House" but their popular song "Four Seasons In One Day" is in reference to Auckland's weather .

Auckland doesn't really ever get that cold, but the wind and rain can make it unpleasant at times...having said that, I go for a run every morning at 6am even in the depths of winter, so it can't be too bad!

-Gumboot

 

[beachnut]

You live in a culture of permissible behavior. You are allowed to behave a bit more freely in this culture than in others, perhaps, but still there are restrictions and that being so there is no such thing as freedom....only the permissible range of behavior. You are also far less free if you are of the wrong color skin, facial features, weight, gender, or some other feature such as background, creed, nationality, etc. etc. The myth of freedom is what many morons (like your prez) in this country live with and brag about. The rest of the world knows and sees quite clearly just how full of Bullsh#t American braggarts are.

You seem to more of an American you define than we Americans are.

Every thing you say is what my professor calls Anecdotal evidence.

Nice stories you may have but I have found your racial profile is total anecdotal evidence at best and may point your own racism. (hope you are not Alex Jones fan)

Lost the freedom to carry 16 ounce coke thru security at the airport, Coke company needs to make some 3 ounce cokes! so i can stuff my quart bag with a 10 bottles of 3 ounce cokes!!!!

Freedom. I have lost all freedom to post at LC, they are idiots who act like NAZIs of knowledge, believe us or do not post! They are nuts. They are NAZIs of truth. Good job LC for exercising your freedom to be idiots!

 

[Carnivore]

I don´t even know why the British Government joined
the war on error. Was it some kind of boot-licking from
Blair and Co?

Phew - this is strange if so many data is stored about
citizens because this ID-card. I guess people and media here
would protest if it was so intervening here. What did
the media say about it - did they support these
developments?

Like I say, it is controversial but overshadowed by many other issues. Civil Liberties groups are protesting, and a grassroots movement called no2id has taken out full page ads in the national papers but it isnt currently a "hot" issue.

 

[Pardalis]

Correction, they are the Nazis of wrong.

 

[Oliver]

Do you mean Auckland specifically?

I'm not sure if you're familiar with the music group "Crowded House" but their popular song "Four Seasons In One Day" is in reference to Auckland's weather .

Auckland doesn't really ever get that cold, but the wind and rain can make it unpleasant at times...having said that, I go for a run every morning at 6am even in the depths of winter, so it can't be too bad!

-Gumboot

Okay...that´s it! How much place do you have
for crazy, german clowns in your home?

 

[Oliver]

Like I say, it is controversial but overshadowed by many other issues. Civil Liberties groups are protesting, and a grassroots movement called no2id has taken out full page ads in the national papers but it isnt currently a "hot" issue.

I guess german media would run and protest the issue here
for weeks or months - especially the WMD-lie if the gov was
involved.

But it´s hard to understand the medias behavior as part of
the war on terror - i mean britain is pretty involved as a part
of the war in iraq... What did the media told you about the
WMD-lie?

 

[Carnivore]

Okey...that´s it! How much place do you have
for crazy, german clowns in your home?

The more the merrier, but may I humbly suggest Christchurch as a possible abode? It's just more pleasant than Auckland and we have the best rugby team in the world!

(Anticipates Christchurch v Auckland flame war)

 

[gumboot]

Okay...that´s it! How much place do you have
for crazy, german clowns in your home?

Plenty! I love Germans! Lived with two while I was studying, and met all their crazy German friends. Awesome people. They even roped me into going downtown at all hours of the night to watch the soccer world cup, where I pretended to be from Turkey. Ahhhh the memories.

Unfortunately the only German they taught me was how to swear, how to order coca-cola, how to hit on girls, and how to say I love football.

-Gumboot