Anyone lost any freedoms?

[Carnivore]

In Britain we are rapidly losing the right to privacy. The current government's postion is that it has the right to track and record the movement, spending, internet use and medical treatment of every citizen, as well as store their biometric data. This information is potentially going to be available to thousands of state employees in many different agencies. They are also reducing our right to freedom of information. The attacks on the freedoms of law abiding firearm owners are ongoing.The right to free speech is on the way out, criticizing religion is being considered a crime, political protest has been made illegal in the vicinity of Parliament. The tabloid press is openly attacking civil liberties and human rights laws as inconveniences foisted on us by foriegners as a way to prevent the police from locking up them as deserve it.

Call me a crazy paranoid CTer, but the in the short time I've lived in this country, it's trend towards removing power from the individual and bestowing it on the state seems fairly obvious. IMO, Tony Blair is instinctively authoritarian. He feels that he knows best and therefore he ought to have the power to order us all into line.

ETA I seem to have popped this right under TS1234s post. Please note I do not agree with any of TS 1234s posted opinions on government conspiracies. My opinion is that the UK trends I have observed are partly the result of the various terrorist attacks, NOT part of the cause of any terrorist attack.

 

[Garb]

You live in a culture of permissible behavior. You are allowed to behave a bit more freely in this culture than in others, perhaps, but still there are restrictions and that being so there is no such thing as freedom....only the permissible range of behavior. You are also far less free if you are of the wrong color skin, facial features, weight, gender, or some other feature such as background, creed, nationality, etc. etc. The myth of freedom is what many morons (like your prez) in this country live with and brag about. The rest of the world knows and sees quite clearly just how full of Bullsh#t American braggarts are.

Yes, a fat bearded guy doesn't get many rights these days.

 

[Garb]

Off the top of my head . . .


I lost the right to own and operate a private airport security company.
I lost the right to keep that portion of my income which has now been spent on various wars.
I lost the right to a jury trial if accused of being an "enemy combatant".
I lost the right to speak on the telephone without being monitored by warrantless government agents
I lost the right to speak via email without being monitored by warrantless government agents
Airlines lost the right to allow their customers to bring liquids on board
I lost the right to be free of government agents monitoring my behavior if I belong to a religious or political organization.
I lost the right to keep my library records confidential from government agents

Serious question: How many and which phone calls are monitered by the government?

If I remember correctly only those suspected of terrorism had their conversations tapped.

Although it doesn't concern me that much either way, I have nothing to hide. Perhaps when I rob a bank and want to brag about it over the phone, then I will be against it.

 

[FramerDave]

Freedom to bring my nail clippers with on a plane.
Freedom to bring my lighter with me on a plane
Freedom from being harassed by ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ at the airport. At least the Hari Krishnas were polite.
Freedom from same ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ harassing my 76 year old mother at airports.

Your right to travel freely without having to show travel papers or get permission is a basic freedom here in the US. You, I, anyone here on the JREF forum or anywhere else can pack a bag and head off to any place we want to.

However, nowhere is it written that you can just waltz onto a plane without following basic rules that govern equally. There are rules and regulations everyone must follow, and they are put into place to protect you and your fellow passengers. Granted, they don't always make the most sense (frisking 76 year old grandmothers) and some of the people enforcing them are total idiots, but that's the price we all pay for the ability to fly.

I might also add that the airlines are businesses and not government entities. If someone has the ability to pay and plays by the rules, they are welcome to fly. Otherwise the airlines are free to tell anyone to piss off.

So boo hoo, you don't like going through security at the airports. Don't fly.

You're perfectly free to tavel any other way you wish. Just remember though that if you want to drive you have to demonstrate to the government your ability to drive, and you have to play by the rules of the roads. Rights always come with responsibilities.

eta: And before you start whining about all your lost rights, you might want to check out this link and see what your rights really are: http://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/constitution.billofrights.html

 

[joemailman]

Where do I come from?

Interesting question! My mother's womb? My father's groin? Oh I see! You're asking what nationality I am! Well I happen to have been born in Miami Fla, USA but what does that have to do with the concept of "freedom"????

 

[Oliver]

In Britain we are rapidly losing the right to privacy. The current government's postion is that it has the right to track and record the movement, spending, internet use and medical treatment of every citizen, as well as store their biometric data. This information is potentially going to be available to thousands of state employees in many different agencies. They are also reducing our right to freedom of information. The attacks on the freedoms of law abiding firearm owners are ongoing.The right to free speech is on the way out, criticizing religion is being considered a crime, political protest has been made illegal in the vicinity of Parliament. The tabloid press is openly attacking civil liberties and human rights laws as inconveniences foisted on us by foriegners as a way to prevent the police from locking up them as deserve it.

Call me a crazy paranoid CTer, but the in the short time I've lived in this country, it's trend towards removing power from the individual and bestowing it on the state seems fairly obvious. IMO, Tony Blair is instinctively authoritarian. He feels that he knows best and therefore he ought to have the power to order us all into line.

Mhmm, this could be a reason for Pdoherty´s behavior.
Is it so bad over there? I mean you just live some kilometers
away and there is such a big difference? BTW: Blair acts a
littlebit like some gay people i know. Is this a coincidence?

 

[Pardalis]

Loss of library record privacy... Such a pain...

 

[Dog Town]

The rest of the world knows and sees quite clearly just how full of Bullsh#t American braggarts are

40 million illegals can't be wrong. Plus the other 40 mill in waiting, from all 4 corners of the globe. It must really suck elsewhere! I am guessing it is where you live! I have lost no "freedoms"! The US has it soo good, there are lots of jelous folks, the world over. I am from Texas originally. When growing up, mothers raise their kids, on never asking people where they are from. If they are from Texas... they will tell you, if not, you don't wanna ebarrass them! LOL! Lighten up Francis....

ETA: Ah Florida...I understand now!

 

[Oliver]

Interesting question! My mother's womb? My father's groin? Oh I see! You're asking what nationality I am! Well I happen to have been born in Miami Fla, USA but what does that have to do with the concept of "freedom"????

So what´s your definition of freedom? To bomb public buildings?
I mean having to show your passport at the airport or at the
borders is a useful thing in my opinion to prevent terror-attacks.

Wrong?

 

[Pardalis]

Airlines lost the right to allow their customers to bring liquids on board

Tell me Truthseeker, how does this one play in the NWO scheme?

 

[FramerDave]

BTW: Blair acts a littlebit like some gay people i know. Is this a coincidence?

Don't read too much into it. He's English.

 

[Carnivore]

Mhmm, this could be a reason for Pdoherty´s behavior.
Is it so bad over there? I mean you just live some kilometers
away and there is such a big difference? BTW: Blair acts a
littlebit like some gay people i know. Is this a coincidence?

I think it certainly has the potential to become bad. There is an awful lot of power concentrated in the executive here. I guess it depends on how much you trust the government (and it's successors) to use this power both benignly and competently. For me, thats not very much. I would prefer to have more checks and balances on executive power in this country.

 

[katsu]

Serious question: How many and which phone calls are monitered by the government?

If I remember correctly only those suspected of terrorism had their conversations tapped.

I think the point is if the government claims you're a terrorist, they can listen in without a warrant. And because they're doing it without the warrant, they don't have to prove that you are a terrorist.

I don't really trust the good will of the government when they can do what they like by slapping the appropriate label on someone. I'd like to think that there are responsible adults in charge of our country that wouldn't dream of violating the rights of anyone that wasn't a bad person, but... do I really have to say any more?

I have nothing to hide either, but until the government is willing to have the same level of transparency it's demanding of its citizens, it can suck my toe.

 

[joemailman]

No Oliver

No Oliver you're not wrong. It's just that each idea has a definition and semantic meaning. A need for definitions is just as important as the idea expressed. Also the population of this nation just as it is in other nations has predjudices and values that are at odds with others in the same community. Freedom is an illusion just as gods and ghosts are illusions. The only reality is that which is measurable and verifiable. As to the arguement that you need not have any papers to travel wth, htat is simply not true. You must carry with you identification papers of some kind or you will be suspect even if the suspicion leads you to a mere inconvenience of being detained for a short time until you are free from it. If you are different in some way from the norm you will be inconvenienced even more. If you do not believe me then try walking down a ghetto street in Miami ( in the black neighborhoods) without id and see if a white policeman doesn't take you in or harrass you for being there "inappropriately".

 

[Crossbow]

A great thread I saw over at LC, figured it would get more response here.

What freedoms have you lost since 9/11? Everyone seems to talk about what freedoms they've lost. Go on, list them all:

1.
2.
3.

...

That is a great question!

And to answer, I personally have not lost any freedoms.

Then again, I also know that freedom is often the type of thing that one does not appreciate until it is lost.

For example, if Amendment I of the US Constitution was eliminated today, then it would make no difference to me since I am rather unreligious to begin with.

By the same token, the USA having secret prisons and torture centers around the world does not affect me directly since it is quite unlikely that I would ever be sent to such a place.

However, by legally restricting the most private and personal of practices (such as religious worship), and by the government of the USA creating places where the laws of the USA do not apply make it far, far easier for the government to remove the freedoms that I have a great deal of appreciation for.

The loss of freedom for one makes for the loss of freedom of all.

 

[Oliver]

I think it certainly has the potential to become bad. There is an awful lot of power concentrated in the executive here. I guess it depends on how much you trust the government (and it's successors) to use this power both benignly and competently. For me, thats not very much. I would prefer to have more checks and balances on executive power in this country.

Mhmm, i don´t know how to change this problem.
Maybe it has something to do with the "democratic
system" over there? Do you believe that other people
agree with you and there will be a change because of
these freedom changes at the next elections?

 

[Garb]

I think the point is if the government claims you're a terrorist, they can listen in without a warrant. And because they're doing it without the warrant, they don't have to prove that you are a terrorist.

I don't really trust the good will of the government when they can do what they like by slapping the appropriate label on someone. I'd like to think that there are responsible adults in charge of our country that wouldn't dream of violating the rights of anyone that wasn't a bad person, but... do I really have to say any more?

I have nothing to hide either, but until the government is willing to have the same level of transparency it's demanding of its citizens, it can suck my toe.

I don't think the government is doing the wire-tapping with an "evil" agenda. I don't see what they would have to gain from tapping into whatever conversation they want.

And I'm pretty sure the government doesn't have too much of a choice with the transparency. Anyone remember our buddy Bill a few years ago?

 

[Garb]

No Oliver you're not wrong. It's just that each idea has a definition and semantic meaning. A need for definitions is just as important as the idea expressed. Also the population of this nation just as it is in other nations has predjudices and values that are at odds with others in the same community. Freedom is an illusion just as gods and ghosts are illusions. The only reality is that which is measurable and verifiable. As to the arguement that you need not have any papers to travel wth, htat is simply not true. You must carry with you identification papers of some kind or you will be suspect even if the suspicion leads you to a mere inconvenience of being detained for a short time until you are free from it. If you are different in some way from the norm you will be inconvenienced even more. If you do not believe me then try walking down a ghetto street in Miami ( in the black neighborhoods) without id and see if a white policeman doesn't take you in or harrass you for being there "inappropriately".

Well when the minority carries out the majority of crimes in a country, can you blame them?

 

[Pardalis]

If you do not believe me then try walking down a ghetto street in Miami ( in the black neighborhoods) without id and see if a white policeman doesn't take you in or harrass you for being there "inappropriately".

Wouldn't police surveilance be tougher in a ghetto because... it is a ghetto?

And wouldn't the chance of a black person being stopped be more likely because... it is a black neighborhood?

 

[Oliver]

No Oliver you're not wrong. It's just that each idea has a definition and semantic meaning. A need for definitions is just as important as the idea expressed. Also the population of this nation just as it is in other nations has predjudices and values that are at odds with others in the same community. Freedom is an illusion just as gods and ghosts are illusions. The only reality is that which is measurable and verifiable. As to the arguement that you need not have any papers to travel wth, htat is simply not true. You must carry with you identification papers of some kind or you will be suspect even if the suspicion leads you to a mere inconvenience of being detained for a short time until you are free from it. If you are different in some way from the norm you will be inconvenienced even more. If you do not believe me then try walking down a ghetto street in Miami ( in the black neighborhoods) without id and see if a white policeman doesn't take you in or harrass you for being there "inappropriately".

You also have to travel with your ID-Card here. So
the Police has no problems to identify you if you make
some trouble or if your driving in wiggly lines with your
car. For me this is no problem at all because i see the
reason for this law. However - you will not be detained
if you don´t travel with your ID but you have to show
it within a given time if you did not make trouble or
were drunk.

Well, i don´t think that freedom is an illusion because
we have 13 parties here and everyone is whining about
the other parties - in most cases. So your idea may
be coherently with the two-party-system because i
feel pretty free here as long i don´t start to say that
the government are killers without any proofs...

- Oliver