Anyone know Feng Shui theory?

[crimresearch]

Gua means gate...which in Qigong is a very specific set of musculature that you know nothing about, as demonstrated.

For necromancy, the term has been borrowed and used for trigrams...I'll bet you can't even explain why, can you?

And you have just posted here on this list that you don't even know the different types of Bagua trigram arrangements.

And yes, I had to correct you on your misconception of which internal art came from where...and teach you what internal meant, since you were equally ignorant of that.

Spamming googled links does not equal knowledge, and providing a living example of that is the only useful function you've demonstrated since you started posting here.

 

[Kilik]

"Gua means gate...which in Qigong is a very specific set of musculature that you know nothing about, as demonstrated."

No, ba(8) gua means 8 changes. It reppresents the universe and nature. The changes and cycles observed in in nature. Wuji, Taiji, Yin Yang, su xiang, ba gua, and I ching are inseperably linked, and they refer to observations in nature. So to be clear, ba gua is very old, older than you think, and it's maening originally is about cycles in nature. Don't again try to claim that its this or that, or that you know history that goes back thousands of years. In qigong it is not referring to muscles, that is a simpistic claim. Mostly It would be refferring to the 8 directions in qigong. Qigong deals with inside and outside. Explain these supposed muscles more, or you're justmaking that up out of the air, like your claims on IMA history

All this theory is about the nature and creation of the universe. First there was wuji, ultimate receptivity, ultimate emptiness. SOmething moved in the Wuji, or vibrated. This was Taiji. Taiji gave birth to the extreme poles if Yin and Yang, which give birth to the 8 changes, and as Lau Tzu said, "the 10,000" things


"And yes, I had to correct you on your misconception of which internal art came from where...and teach you what internal meant, since you were equally ignorant of that."

LOL. I don't even need to ask for evidence, it doesn't exist. How about this, prove that there is anyone, anywhere else who makes this claim. Correct? LOL, no one but you has ever made this messed up history claim. Ask ANYBODY! Any xingyi guy, ask any legit Taiji guy. What is known about the history, is basically known, and out there. There's not a single Taiji or Xingyi quy who ever said this, any where in any country, only you. You're the only one in the world.

You're trying to sound like you know something, some migth believe you, but you can't fool me


But to explain the Chinese Philosophy, well , the true Chinese philosophy, here you go-

" Beneath Taiji are three concepts: Liangyi (literally "two gifts" but it can be analogous to "heaven and earth"), Taiji (literally "grand utmost") and Wuji (literally "void utmost.") We say Zhang San Feng absorbed a hundred different styles. He took these specific styles, ideals and philosophies and focused them on the life nourishing culture that is Taoism to invent internal martial arts. According to Taoist beliefs, from Wuji arises Taiji, from Taiji arises Liangyi. Liangyi became sixiang (literally "four elephants" - this represents the four pillars or forms) and this created Bagua (eight trigrams, same as used in I Ching divination). From this we say "one created two, two created three, three created ten thousand." This philosophy is the foundation of internal form. That’s why Liangyi, Taiji and Wuji are all under the Taiji umbrella."

"Yin and yang combined together in balance creates Taiji. When you separate yin and yang, we call it Liangyi. Liangyi separates the hard and the soft. Put them together and they become Taiji. Within the taiji is the Tao of life nourishing culture. Before, I said that Zhang San Feng absorbed a hundred styles and mixed them with Taoist life nourishing culture. What is really meant by this is that our style has combined the methods of tuna (breathing methods), daoyin (stretching techniques), caibu (collecting and nourishing) and hunyuan (akin to qigong). Now under Taiji there are three different levels, first Liangyi, then Taiji, then Wuji. But if you talk about the form itself, it also has different levels. First is tuna, the breathing method, second is caibu, collecting and nourishing, and third is called hunyuan. Hunyuan means combining yin and yang, so it’s an internal meditation method. These three levels comprise Taijiquan technique."

http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/magazine/article.php?article=378

Believe me, that is the actual Taoist philosophy. And the true forms of Qigong are, Tao school, Buddha school, Yoga, TCM and IMA. Most qigong you see is probably TCM style, or Tao style.

Ba Gua in qigong mostly is referring to N, NE, E, SE, S, SW, W, NW. Don't claim qigong is unrelated to trigrams, because the movements are often meant to be literarally representations of trigrams with the human body. It also refers to everything, postures,movements, quality of movement, the flow of energy in the movement. And while muscles, of course are used, qigong is not mainly concerned with muscles or muscular anatomy. That comes from your own western understanding

You can't seperate these concepts like you are, They are inseperably linked as one philosophy

And you're so obseessed with muscles, it doesn't matter, you just have to be round and keep your up/down opposing energies. Muscles get worked with the form automatically really hard, no secret manipulation keys, it just comes with training

Now, maybe, perhaps Gua can be translated as "gate"( probably not though), but that is absolutely NOT the meaning in Tao cultivation, or Qigong

Ahhh. Lol, you're trying to say necromancy is more modern than qigong, it is actually, but not like you think. For all intensive purposes necromancy is older than history. In any case, Tao cultivation and philosophy came first and is older than anything else

 

[Kilik]

Now, compare Mr. Li's teachings on Pre HIstory posted earlier on the first page, to the new scientific information got by studyig the ocean floor.

Paulina Zelitsky, Ocean Engineer, Advanced Digital Communications, Havana, Cuba: "Samples that we recovered from the ocean bottom have justified our structures that we call megalithic structures. The samples are granite stone, completely polished, with some incrustations of fossils. Fossils of organic creatures that normally live on the surface, not on the ocean bottom. This is very interesting because this is evidence that the whole surface sank to the depth of 700 meters (2,297 feet, or about a half mile down).

The area has been seismically active for thousands of years. And what we find on the ocean bottom are fractures from which the magma and volcanic ash came out. From these structures we were able to delineate a configuration of the land that sank because you can see them clearly. The land that sank is very obvious from our image of the ocean bottom. And you can see bays, like harbors, and it's all at the depths of 900 and 700 meters.

Geologically, does Dr. Iturralde-Vinent and others have any idea what happened volcanically? Was it one large eruption or series of eruptions?

Series of eruptions and as he is saying, it is still active. A series of eruptions that created major tectonic movement to such a degree that land is sinking. For example, Cuba has sank and re-emerged a couple of times! But that was long ago, geologically. Now, what happened more recently geologically is that land sank that joined to Yucatan �_ islands between Yucatan and Cuba, they sank.

Also, geologically and botanically in terms of organic life, Yucatan and Cuba �_ the extreme northwestern part of Cuba which is Peninsula Guanahacabibes (Gwan-uh-cah-BEE-buh) are completely identical. Completely identical. It's the same limestone and the same organic life and the same botanic and animal represented. It's very obvious that land that was joining that is now on ocean bottom is land that was joining Yucatan and Cuba. But this land was sinking because of tectonic movement which were occurring. Of course, earthquakes and volcanoes were accompanying the tectonic movements. Tectonic movement is not something that moves softly. It is always accompanied by dramatic volcano and earthquake activity.

But we saw on ocean bottom where the bays and coastal lines of the island that sank. We think there was a series of islands between Cuba and the Yucatan. There could have been sinking 15,000 years ago.

One area between the fractures. Not on the fractures. It is between the fractures that was left undisturbed and just sank flat without fractures. On this area, we can observe those megalithic structures, or constructions. And they have completely different and independent delineation from geological faults, from our geology of the sunken land, or the geology of island Cuba. Completely independent delineation of their own.

Mr. Li stated that at the destruction of the past civilizations, Only those at elevations over 2000 feet! , like the Himalyas and Kunlun mountains survived.

Now the modern scientists are totally agreeing with almost the same figures

"This is very interesting because this is evidence that the whole surface sank to the depth of 700 meters (2,297 feet, or about a half mile down).

Also, Mr. Li, as well as other Qigong masters, certainly know their own culture and philosophies well

Not to mention Edgar Cayce and Plato also knew things they couldn't have known by guessing, like dates for the flooding during the ice age

 

[SezMe]

Now the modern scientists are totally agreeing with almost the same figures

Wrong, on several counts:
1) Paulina Zelitsky is the only one who holds this view so "scientists" should be singular.
2) She is an "ocean engineer" not a scientist. BTW, what, exactly, is an "ocean engineer"?
3) Her expertise is not in geology, anthropology, or any of the other "ologies" that would give credence to her views.

 

[Nex]

 

[Kilik]

It mentions some scientists.

There is nothing wrong in pointing out two completely, or 4 completely unrelated types of fields, from different countries are uncannily agreeing on advanced subjects

blah, blah blah, strawmen blah, retro fitting and misinterpreting prophecy to debunk it blah blah explain it all away with dragon's and easter bunnies

 

[Ducky]

blah, blah blah, strawmen blah, retro fitting and misinterpreting prophecy to debunk it blah blah explain it all away with dragon's and easter bunnies

At least you can guess the rebuttal. You forgot the unicorns and had one too many blahs, though.

 

[crimresearch]

Ask ANYBODY! Any xingyi guy, ask any legit Taiji guy. What is known about the history, is basically known, and out there. There's not a single Taiji or Xingyi quy who ever said this, any where in any country, only you. You're the only one in the world.

Riiiiight...Gua(kua) doesn't mean gate to you and you talk about Taoist practices, even though you have no clue how to do them
in the physical realm...so you rendered a chopped up version of the Wuji story and try to pass it off as your own personal knowledge of the universe.

It looks like the people here know more about the myths you are peddling than you do.



OK... Since you like links so much, why are all of these other people besides myself still laboring under the misconception that the gua consists of muscles, and opens and closes like the 'gate' that it is.

http://www.chiflow.com/html/Taijiquan_origins.htm
(refers to Ba gua as 'Eight Gates')

http://www.yangfamilytaichi.com/ubb/Forum7/HTML/000027.html
(Yang family member's discussion of the 8 gates as force vectors)

http://ejmas.com/pt/ptart_Jones_0601.htm
(Kua as muscle)

http://www.denner.org/reinhard/neijia/terms/kua.html

http://www.kungfu4u.com/_disc3/00000ce7.htm

http://www.chenstyle.com/methods/training/zhuanggong.html

Some FengShui stff:

"Delve deeper into feng shui by exploring the three principles: the Tao, the five Elements and the BAGUA (the eight gates of energy)."
http://www.sageways.org/lifeskills.htm

Feel free to believe any and all of the various stories out there...but when you try to assert them here, don't expect everyone to be so gullible.

 

[Kilik]

Holy ****

you really make no sense

Yang family member's discussion of the 8 gates as force vectors

That is not the principle of Ba Gua. That is totally different. Those gates have nothing to do with Ba Gua. That is the 8 "jins" of Taiji, and 5 steps, or the "13 postures". ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH BA GUA, although you could match the 8 gates to the 8 trigrams

Guess what, 8 gates in chinese, is Ba Fa NOT Ba Gua in Taijiquan.

ROFLMAO

You are a beginner

You're just plain wrong. So you dismiss things beyond your level as myth

(Kua as muscle)

Haha. You know why? Because the Kua as in the hip fold, and the Gua of the Ba Gua are different things, and different words.

Whoa, you are really attempting to twist chinese terms.

ANd there's no basis anywhere to claim Xingyi comes from, or even is newer than Taijiquan

 

[Kilik]

The 8 Ba Fa of Taijiquam, or the "8 gates", or more accurately 8 skills

peng

lu

ji

an

cai

lie

zhou

kao

Though you do not comprehend how these apply to combat, at least you are a necromancy expert

Riiiiight...Gua(kua) doesn't mean gate to you and you talk about Taoist practices, even though you have no clue how to do them

Absolutely, Gua does not mean gate. I'm gonna make this clear, you haven't a clue anything about me or what you are talking about. You are very far off the mark.



And finally, from your own linked article-

"Ba Men, Wu Bu" (which translates into English as "8 Gates, 5 Steps").

Ba Gua is a different thing than Ba men. Kua is different from Gua.

And Ba Men(8 gates) isn't even fully correct, Ba Fa(8 skills), is more correct

I don't want to see you to ever claim again that you know **** about qi, qigong, martial arts, or China

DO NOT ATTEMPT TO SPEAK FOR THE PEOPLE WHOSE SITES YOU LINK

 

[CFLarsen]

Kilik,

How do you know that this is the "true" diagram?

 

[Kilik]

In the oldest forms of Tao school qigong, the body's movements are literal representations of the trigrams

And because the ba gua is inseperably linked to Taiji, 5 phases, and I ching. I ching is the continuation of the ba gua, bagua is 8 combos of 3, I ching is 64 combos of 6

Now I should further clarify, the ba gua principle in Taoist qigong is a totally different and unrelated principle to the "8 skills" of Taijiquan. Taijiquan is not a Taoist spiritual school. It is an incredible thing, but it is not a Taoist spiritual cultivation school. Taoist qigong is much older than Taijiquan. Taiji is an incredible hybrid art, consisting of Chinese wrestling, Military arts, peasant or civilian martial arts, military weapons such as the spear and braodsword etc., Shaolin arts such as Cannon boxing and Shaolin weapons such as possibly the Staff, Daoist cultivation principles, Buddhist cultivation( as seen in the first move, buddha's warrior attendant pounds Mortar), as well as Yogic or medical deep breathing practices . BUt it is not Taoist qigong, or the same thing as Taoist qigong in the strictest sense, though it has elements of it contained within it.


The 8 changes, or Ba Gua. Like I already explained to you, changes in Nature

mountain
son 3

water
son 2

thunder
son 1

heaven
father

earth
mother

wind
daughter 1

fire
daughter 2

lake
daughter 3

Glad to finally for the first time provide some more proper definitions and explanations here, because crimeresearch will **** it up badly, and lead you to confusion

Taiji 8 skills
peng-ward off

lui- rollback, lead into emptiness

jie-press

an-push

cai- to pluck

lie- to split

zhou- elbow strikes

kao- shoulder, leg and hip attacks


So do you now comprehend that 8 changes(ba gua), 8 gates( Ba Men/Fa), and hip jiont(Kua) are 3 seperate things.



here was the link from the earlier quote
http://www.chiflow.com/neijiakungfu_overview.htm

also, just because most things on it are accurate doesn't mean everything is. Taiji and Taoist qigong are different things

cool image-

 

[Kilik]

crimeresearch-

Actually you have a common misconception , and that is that you think Taijiquan is actually related to the concept of Taiji like Taoist qigong is. Or that Baguazhang is actually related to the Bagua of Taoist qigong. They are different things

Here is an article, click on "History", it might help you see where your understanding is flawed and confused-

http://web.syr.edu/~jbegovic/

You will learn that I ching and "Ba Gua" were only names added to the arts at the end of the founders life, it was originally not baguazhang or based in I ching and ba gua theory

You will also learn that Baguazhang and Taijiquan are completely urelated different martial arts

You were duped by folklore and mythology, myths of Zhang San Feng and the like, and took them as literal truths when they in fact were not. However, if you cannot handle this fact at this time perhaps you may not want to accept some of your beliefs and understandings are fantasy, in which case you might not want to read it

Zeng used the theory of the I-Ching to explain the martial Art of Ba-Gua Zhang, but also note that Zeng says that Dong did not relate his art to the I-Ching until late in his life which makes sense in terms of his students that learned before he began this thread of thinking as far as what they were taught and eventually teach.

Prior to 1885 I doubt that anybody outside of Cheng Ting Hua taught 8 Palms. But we’ll come back to him.

Now let’s look at the core of what Yin Fu taught.

It is usually thought that Yin Fu taught as Dong Hai Chuan did.

In terms of material, Yin Fu had the most. The first thing he taught
was Lohan. Over all, Yin Fu’s system consisted of a combination of
both hard and soft training and Qi-Gong methods.

My question is, when did Yin Develop his 64 Palms and what or who
influenced the idea?

I feel that Zeng Xing San was the catalyst, The 3 men discussed it,
Dong and Yin Began work on it, and Yin and Zeng completed it.

This aspect takes me to Cheng Ting Hua. As one of the top disciples,
when Dong and Yin were working on Yin’s 64 I’m sure that Cheng
was made aware of some of this theory which makes me think that
it’s possible that Zeng and Dong may have come up with the first
set of 8 correlated Ba-Gua palms concept, Yin took that and created
8 variations thus his 64 Palms, which makes sense because there is
nothing else that refers to the I-Ching in that sense.

 

[Mojo]

How do you know that this is the "true" diagram?

That's the most commonly used and accepted form, by chinese tradtitions and chinese people that I know of.

Bzzzzt! Argument from popularity.

 

[crimresearch]

crimeresearch-

Actually you have a common misconception , and that is that you think Taijiquan is actually related to the concept of Taiji like Taoist qigong is. Or that Baguazhang is actually related to the Bagua of Taoist qigong. They are different things

Here is an article, click on "History", it might help you see where your understanding is flawed and confused.....

[

That would be nice, except for the fact that I am not the one who has posted any confusion about these things.

Since you have been exposed as a fraud for claiming that I am the 'only person' in the entire world who thinks that gua means gate in some contexts, you must be getting desperate, if you are projecting assertions I've not made onto me.

And your continued belief in the HsingYi origination myth is noted.

As is the absence of any explanation as to why a Moslem art would use Taoist concepts and practices (like Wu Hisng), if they didn't come from Chinese...

 

[Kilik]

I said you are the only person in the world who claimed xingyi comes from Taiji. It is genrally accepted that Xingyiquan is the oldest IMA.

8 gates in Taiji or IMA, is not Ba Gua. Totally differet things

No one has claimed anything about xingyi being taoist, whether it is or isn't. But it's not Taiji nor Taoist spiritual qigong. It could be possible Taiji and Xingyi are connected way back in the undocumented past, however, it could be possible a variety of arts are connected. Historically the development of Taiji and Xingyi are seperate.

Quit trying to misrepresent things

YOU ARE THE ONLY ONE TO CLAIM A DIRECT LINK BETWEEN TAIJI AND XINGYI. They are seperate arts. However, if there does exist such evidence, of course I'd definitely read it! So link it up, but it won't be out there.

As is the absence of any explanation as to why a Moslem art would use Taoist concepts and practices (like Wu Hisng), if they didn't come from Chinese...

Didn't you learn anything from this? Can you not understand what you read? THe older forms of xingyi, especially xinyi, which is the oldest form, don't really contain specifically 5 elements. THese principles, as far as IMA go, were just called these names later and added in later.

Taiji was not originally called Taiji, only when it came public did people think it bore resemlance to the "Taiji". Correlating baguazhang with the "ba gua" came later

And 8 gates is not Ba Gua which is where your misconception in the practical aspects is.

 

[crimresearch]

No, you claimed that I was the ONLY ONE who said anything about 'gates'...and you were proven a liar with the links I provided...other people use that term as well, in various contexts..

Now you are dishonestly changing your claim, based on a comment I made about modern versions of Hsingyi changing over the years, to borrow (and thus be 'descended') from Taijiquan.

Nowhere did I say that they were not seperate arts, or that the General Fei origination myth wasn't older than your 'Taoist Saint' origination myth....so type in all capitals all you want, you are still lying.

That leads me to believe that the rest of your rantings are based on equally foolish or dishonest mis-intepretations of what I actually said.

But behind your word games, the fact remains that you are advocating a magical, superstitious, Qi behind such things as your belief in Feng Shui, Taoist cultivation, etc...

And I do not believe that.

Feel free to prove me wrong, there is a million dollars in it for you.

 

[Kilik]

"And yes, I had to correct you on your misconception of which internal art came from where...and teach you what internal meant, since you were equally ignorant of that."

LOL. I don't even need to ask for evidence, it doesn't exist. How about this, prove that there is anyone, anywhere else who makes this claim. Correct? LOL, no one but you has ever made this messed up history claim. Ask ANYBODY! Any xingyi guy, ask any legit Taiji guy. What is known about the history, is basically known, and out there. There's not a single Taiji or Xingyi quy who ever said this, any where in any country, only you. You're the only one in the world.

At the very top of this page. WHy do you continue to deny obvious facts?



From-
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=55199

Actually Taijiquan, XingYi, Yiquan, and Baguazhang are all developd from Chen...a lot of politics obscured that until very recently.


And if you train body mechanics to perform with external power, the way Chang and William CC do, you cannot develop peng jin.

What ****!

 

[Kilik]

So, you can "believe" what you want, but nothing in the world happens by accident, and your belief or what you demand to see revelaed to you cannot have any affect on how societies will develop. History will unfold as it is planned.

However, what this particular conversation all comes down to is 2 simple facts:

Xinyi does not come from Taiji

Ba Gua is not the 8 gates as you claimed

 

[crimresearch]

Do you have a clue what 'developed' means?

Notice the exact words...'developed from'.

Nothing about which came first, just that the current state of HsingYi, Baguazhang and even other Taijiquan systems has developed over time to include things found originally in Chen family style.

A viewpoint held by others BTW, not (as you claim) only by me.

"The oldest brother of Neijia Quan is Xing Yi Quan. It is said that Xingyi was invented by Ji Long Feng sometime in the seventeenth century.
Although Xingyi was taught in several different places after JLF,
it did not become well_known until Li Luo Neng. LLN and his students really made Xingyi famous and earned the reputation of this style from the 1850s.

....It is interesting that prominent masters of Taiji, Bagua and Xingyi met in Beijing and made their reputation from the late nineteenth century. In exchanging their experiences, the masters from these groups found that these arts shared similar skills and principles. So finally they decided to unite their skill in one family. But it does not mean they are totally mixed together. Because of the difference, each art still keeps its own features."
http://ycgf.org/Articles/TJ_XY_BG/arti_TBX.htm

So the history is indeed known, just not by you.