Any Update on Silverstein's Lawsuit?

WildCat · Jun 5, 2011

1337m4n said:
And since you are obviously not a liar, you MUST have those numbers. Just fill 'em in; that's all we're asking.

NoahFence · Jun 5, 2011

RedIbis said:
I can be criticized for a lot of things but being at a loss for words isn't one of them.

How about at a loss for the correct words?

WildCat · Jun 5, 2011

RedIbis said:
How did he lose billions?

I'll answer right after you post evidence that LS "made out like a bandit" and 9/11 was a "windfall" for him.

Of curse we all know you will be doing nothing of the sort, don't we?

RedIbis · Jun 5, 2011

WildCat said:
I'll answer right after you post evidence that LS "made out like a bandit" and 9/11 was a "windfall" for him.

Of curse we all know you will be doing nothing of the sort, don't we?

There's nothing wrong with disagreeing as a matter of opinion. There is something wrong with being childish and failing to at least support your position.

Again, you don't have to agree with the conclusions I've drawn based on the research I've presented, but you do at least have to attempt some support for your opinion.

This is what is known as discourse, posting gifs of laughing dogs is uncreative and stupid.

DGM · Jun 5, 2011

RedIbis said:
There's nothing wrong with disagreeing as a matter of opinion. There is something wrong with being childish and failing to at least support your position.

Again, you don't have to agree with the conclusions I've drawn based on the research I've presented, but you do at least have to attempt some support for your opinion.

This is what is known as discourse, posting gifs of laughing dogs is uncreative and stupid.

Would you consider the court documents posted "discourse"?

NoahFence · Jun 5, 2011

RedIbis said:
Are you being intentionally obstinate?

1. Answered multiple times in the thread
2. That which he is now resposible for has been answered earlier in the thread.
3. He paid off previous debts with the proceeds. He's not continuing to pay the PA for leases on the old WTC.
4. You can calculate them into infinity, assuming they would stand that long, but it really has no bearing calculating the proceeds versus his investment.

Thunder, you've done everything except the research. You have not read through the numerous articles I've posted in this thread, and the information which can be obtained through some easy searches.

If you, ergo and clayton were to come up with a dastardly evil plot, who would be the leader?

NoahFence · Jun 5, 2011

RedIbis said:
This is what is known as discourse, posting gifs of laughing dogs is uncreative and stupid.

...And yet completely appropriate.

:lolsign:

dtugg · Jun 5, 2011

RedIbis said:
There's nothing wrong with disagreeing as a matter of opinion. There is something wrong with being childish and failing to at least support your position.

Again, you don't have to agree with the conclusions I've drawn based on the research I've presented, but you do at least have to attempt some support for your opinion.

This is what is known as discourse, posting gifs of laughing dogs is uncreative and stupid.

My opinion (well, it is really a fact) is that you never have nor ever will show any evidence whatsoever for your libelous claim that Silverstein "made out like a bandit."

Oystein · Jun 5, 2011

RedIbis said:
Thunder said:

ok, since RedIbis clearly refuses to answer questions that would confirm or deny his idea that Silverstein made out like a bandit from the WTC insurance claim, can we just answer the questions for him?

1. How much in insurance money has Silverstein collected to-date?

2. What are Silverstein's reconstruction costs to-date?

3. What are Silverstein's leasing costs to-date?

4. What were Silverstein's income projections from the original WTC to-date?

Click to expand...

Are you being intentionally obstinate?

1. Answered multiple times in the thread
2. That which he is now resposible for has been answered earlier in the thread.
3. He paid off previous debts with the proceeds. He's not continuing to pay the PA for leases on the old WTC.
4. You can calculate them into infinity, assuming they would stand that long, but it really has no bearing calculating the proceeds versus his investment.

Thunder, you've done everything except the research. You have not read through the numerous articles I've posted in this thread, and the information which can be obtained through some easy searches.

RedIbis said:
Thunder said:

1. How much in insurance money has Silverstein collected to-date?

Click to expand...

1. Answered multiple times in the thread

Your answer has several times been "He received 4.6 billion in payouts" (rounded from 4.55).
Your only sourced "evidence" for this is ... oh! You provided no source! The only two articles where you linked to sources contain no mention of 4.55 or 4.6 billion!
LashL explained to you in post 107 that

LashL said:
...The reality is that Mr. Silverstein was not "awarded" $4.55 billion as you claimed and he did not "win" $4.55 billion as your quote above claims. The court held that the multiple insurers were liable up to a maximum of $4.55 billion, subject to proper evidence and proof of insured losses in accordance with the terms of the insurance policies. Again, this does not mean that the insurers all got out their chequebooks and paid their policy limits. That isn't how it works, as the terms of the policies set out pre-conditions and require evidence of actual insured losses and the happening of various events.
...

You have not come up with any argument against this, other than posting your opinion that the NYT is infallible. Which obviously it isn't.

So, so far we only have your claim that Larry "received" 4.55 billion US$, but indeed no evidence.

RedIbis said:
Thunder said:

2. What are Silverstein's reconstruction costs to-date?

Click to expand...

2. That which he is now resposible for has been answered earlier in the thread.

Well, that doesn't answer the question (you answer "what would he be obliged to pay", the question was "what did he pay so far in reality?"), but I will agree that his obligations, past and present, are what counts.

Looking at your substantial posts 26 and 62, I find you mention these numbers:

1 billion "rebuilt WTC 7 and paid off debts from the destroyed WTC 7"
1 billion "went to the building of 1WTC"

No links and sources for these claims, but what the heck.
Well, that's it? No costs for the other towers?

RedIbis said:
Thunder said:

3. What are Silverstein's leasing costs to-date?

Click to expand...

3. He paid off previous debts with the proceeds. He's not continuing to pay the PA for leases on the old WTC.

Again, you are answering a different question ("What does he pay for leases today?" vs. "What has he already payed for leases in the 10 years since 9/11?").
And you provide no evidence for the claim, no references.

RedIbis said:
Thunder said:

4. What were Silverstein's income projections from the original WTC to-date?

Click to expand...

4. You can calculate them into infinity, assuming they would stand that long, but it really has no bearing calculating the proceeds versus his investment.

That's a Stundie.
Of course lost income is a form of loss that is very real and very significant! Projecting income into the future is the very reason why investors invest at all!
I take it that you admit to just ignore this sort of loss, right, so you get a little closer to your libellous claim of "made out like a bandit"?

In summary:

1. You never backed up your answer to question 1, and never defended against the objections raised against your answer
2. You never answered question 2 completely.
3. You never put a number to question 3, and never provided evidence and references
4. You ignore the only reason why Silverstein invested in the first place - to earn money from offering office space.

In addition, you never added your incomplete numbers to show if the net profit is negative or positive.

You are still pathetically short of even beginning to prove your libellous claims.

High time to start now, RedIbis!

NoahFence · Jun 5, 2011

Nice work Oystein!

All we need now is a "taken to school" emoticon

Thunder · Jun 5, 2011

Oystein- since you seem to have the most info and may be the most knowledgable on these issues, could you do us all a HUGE favor..and answer the questions for us?

1. How much in insurance money has Silverstein collected to-date?

2. What are Silverstein's reconstruction costs to-date?

3. What are Silverstein's leasing costs to-date?

4. What were Silverstein's income projections from the original WTC ....to-date?

Arus808 · Jun 6, 2011

Thunder said:
Oystein- since you seem to have the most info and may be the most knowledgable on these issues, could you do us all a HUGE favor..and answer the questions for us?

1. How much in insurance money has Silverstein collected to-date?

2. What are Silverstein's reconstruction costs to-date?

3. What are Silverstein's leasing costs to-date?

4. What were Silverstein's income projections from the original WTC ....to-date?

this is the only response RED should get. any other talk is worthless. DO not reply to red unless you have the 4 questions above in your reply.

WildCat · Jun 6, 2011

RedIbis said:
There's nothing wrong with disagreeing as a matter of opinion.

We're not arguing opinion, we're arguing facts. Your claim is a math problem.

Now, show how Silversten "made out like a bandit" and 9/11 was a "windfall" for him.

Present your numbers, be sure to make the corrections LashL pointed out for you in the cout documents!

Oystein · Jun 6, 2011

Thunder said:
Oystein- since you seem to have the most info and may be the most knowledgable on these issues, could you do us all a HUGE favor..and answer the questions for us?

1. How much in insurance money has Silverstein collected to-date?

2. What are Silverstein's reconstruction costs to-date?

3. What are Silverstein's leasing costs to-date?

4. What were Silverstein's income projections from the original WTC ....to-date?

Wha...??
I only went through the RedIbis School of Law and Real Estate Investment, how can you expect me to know a thing?

Anyway:

1. I have no idea - more than 0, less than 4.55 billion

2. I have no idea - more than 1 billion

3. I have no idea - less than 1.1 billion

4. I have no idea - more than 3 billion

If I add these, each time assuming the best case for Larry, I come up with

1. +4.55
2. -1
3. -0
4. -3
-----------
= +0.55 billion

But we are forgetting legal costs (over a billion, as noted somewhere in this thread), and all future costs and lost business. And, again, the 0.55 billion was best case.

Frankly, I don't know how much Silverstein will have lost when all is said and done. Maybe he'll even come out even! But the null-hypothesis must be that he'll tally up a loss on the order of magnitude of several billion US$.
(By the way, RI sometimes seemes to think that the "financing" that's to come from private and public investors is some kind of income for Silverstein, or is people paying for his dues; what a moronic assumption! Financing usually means loans, which will incur further costs. They are called interest)

Fact remains: RedIbis made claim ("bandit", "windfall"), has been utterly unable to back it up with evidence, and lied about that backing-up.

Dave Rogers · Jun 6, 2011

I think it's worth pointing out that RedIbis has a long and rich history of claiming that he's answered a question, then either refusing to substantiate the claim, or referring to a post that doesn't actually answer the question with a claim that it does. As a general rule, when anyone can be bothered to go to the trouble of checking - as Oystein has above, for example - it usually turns out that he never actually answered the question. He can't reasonably claim to be unaware that he hasn't answered the question, so his continued insistences appear inexplicable as anything other than stating a falsehood that he knows to be false. For some reason, though, he gets very upset if this behaviour is decribed by the term "lying".

Dave

ETA: Oh, and by the way, Oystein, your numbers neglect the fact that Silverstein's lease on the WTC itself had a positive value, which he won't recover if he doesn't rebuild; factoring that in as a loss will easily wipe out your best-case +0.55B gain.

aggle-rithm · Jun 6, 2011

Oystein said:
(By the way, RI sometimes seemes to think that the "financing" that's to come from private and public investors is some kind of income for Silverstein, or is people paying for his dues; what a moronic assumption! Financing usually means loans, which will incur further costs. They are called interest)

I always assumed that Silverstein's partners were investing in his venture, and so, although he wouldn't have to pay interest, those investors would expect a return on their investment.

If so, that's one more group that Silverstein has to answer to. They could even sue him for mismanaging their investment. Although they may not win, that's yet more legal costs for Silverstein.

RedIbis · Jun 6, 2011

Oystein said:
Fact remains: RedIbis made claim ("bandit", "windfall"), has been utterly unable to back it up with evidence, and lied about that backing-up.

So do you still think LS is on the hook for rebuilding 1WTC? Hopefully, in all this you learned something. And don't think I've overlooked the fact that in all your hasty calculations you have not provided a single source or link for your numbers.

So show me a single source which claims LS lost money on the WTC. Your goofball numbers still have him half a billion dollars in the black. That's 500 million! Even if you're vaguely in the ballpark, that's a lot of loot, and a whole lot of bandits would love to rake in that windfall. Well done Oy.

aggle-rithm · Jun 6, 2011

RedIbis said:
So do you still think LS is on the hook for rebuilding 1WTC? Hopefully, in all this you learned something. And don't think I've overlooked the fact that in all your hasty calculations you have not provided a single source or link for your numbers.

So show me a single source which claims LS lost money on the WTC. Your goofball numbers still have him half a billion dollars in the black. That's 500 million! Even if you're vaguely in the ballpark, that's a lot of loot, and a whole lot of bandits would love to rake in that windfall. Well done Oy.

Just out of curiosity, why is this so important to you? Do you believe if Silverstein profited from the attacks then it means he caused the attacks?

If so, then you have to add the insurance companies into the mix as co-conspirators. Insurance companies don't generally hand out payments indiscriminately just because the insured party fills out a form -- particularly if it's a multi-billion dollar settlement. If Silverstein profited, it would have to be with the cooperation of the insurance companies.

RedIbis · Jun 6, 2011

aggle-rithm said:
Just out of curiosity, why is this so important to you? Do you believe if Silverstein profited from the attacks then it means he caused the attacks?

If so, then you have to add the insurance companies into the mix as co-conspirators. Insurance companies don't generally hand out payments indiscriminately just because the insured party fills out a form -- particularly if it's a multi-billion dollar settlement. If Silverstein profited, it would have to be with the cooperation of the insurance companies.

Having been born in NYC and grown up in the area (Jersey mostly), with a cousin who worked with LS as a contractor, I'm well aware of Larry's history milking the taxpayers of NY and strong arming them into very cushy agreements on guaranteed leases.

Still, I don't think LS is a particularly nefarious person, just someone who is very good at what he does and has become incredibly successful off of this. I just see his actions after 9/11 as unnecessarily aggressive to profit off of a tragedy when he could have worked with the city to find more realistic rebuilding options.

dafydd · Jun 6, 2011

RedIbis said:
This is what is known as discourse, posting gifs of laughing dogs is uncreative and stupid.

So is posting lies.

Any Update on Silverstein's Lawsuit?

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