Any 'pro-Palestinian' atheists here?

[bigjelmapro]

does not the USA & Israel have a "special relationship"?

So where's this demand? Apart from yet another bout of playing with words what does this have to do with the 'higher expectations'? And what are these expectations in reference to the special relationship the US has with the PA and the Palestinians?

 

[Thunder]

So where's this demand? Apart from yet another bout of playing with words what does this have to do with the 'higher expectations'?

Israel and the USA have a special relationship. This relationship includes lots of gifts and treats, plus special diplomatic goodies..especially when it comes to UN Sec. Con. votes.

With ALL of this in mind, I expect just a wee bit more from Israel, than I do from nations that don't have such a "special" relationship.

 

[Elind]

Israel Palestinians and the USA UN have a special relationship. This relationship includes lots of gifts and treats, plus special diplomatic goodies..especially when it comes to UN Sec. Con. General Assembly votes.

With ALL of this in mind, I expect just a wee bit more from Israel Palestinians, than I do from nations that don't have such a "special" relationship.

Another perspective.

 

[Pardalis]

If Israel is such a thuggish dictatorship, as parky claims in some threads, why does he criticize it so harshly and holds it to "a higher standard", like he does in other threads?

One can hardly criticize Israel both for being a dictatorship and because it's a western-style democracy.

He criticizes it precisely because it's a democracy. It's much easier to attack a democracy than to attack a real dictatorship, this way you won't ever get reprimanded or feel the consequences.

Kind of like attacking a teddy bear instead of a real grizzly, because you know the teddy bear won't fight back.

 

[Pardalis]

Israel asks for a double-standard, so I apply one.

the day they stop demanding one, I shall stop applying one.

Could you consider me with a double standard, please?

I'm officially asking you.

It seems one only needs to ask.

 

[Thunder]

Could you consider me with a double standard, please?

I'm officially asking you.

It seems one only needs to ask.

sure, if that's what you want.

 

[MarkCorrigan]

Wait, Parky are you saying the double standard is that Israel say they're a Western Democracy and they say Palestine isn't?

That they want to be treated better because they are a WD and Palestine is not? That what you mean?

 

[Thunder]

Wait, Parky are you saying the double standard is that Israel say they're a Western Democracy and they say Palestine isn't?

That they want to be treated better because they are a WD and Palestine is not? That what you mean?

 

[IDB87]

Wait, Parky are you saying the double standard is that Israel say they're a Western Democracy and they say Palestine isn't?

That they want to be treated better because they are a WD and Palestine is not? That what you mean?

wrong. Israel wants special treatment and favors, because they claim to be a liberal Western-style democracy, like the USA, Canada, and Britain.

Sounds like it, at least the first part. But, I wonder why this kind of special democratic privilege does not pass to Palestinians, since they democratically elected Hamas?

What's the deal, Parky?

 

[Thunder]

Sounds like it, at least the first part. But, I wonder why this kind of special democratic privilege does not pass to Palestinians, since they democratically elected Hamas?

What's the deal, Parky?

what's the deal with what?

when the USA and Palestine have a "special relationship", which comes with lots of treats and goodies that no other nation receives, I shall also apply a special-super-duper higher standard upon Palestine.

 

[IDB87]

what's the deal with what?

when the USA and Palestine have a "special relationship", which comes with lots of treats and goodies that no other nation receives, I shall also apply a special-super-duper higher standard upon Palestine.

Sorry, but you're claimed two different reasons for holding Israel to a higher standard.

First you claim to hold them to a higher standard because Israel style themselves as a democracy. Well, Palestinians elected Hamas to power (a reason why we should recognize Hamas, a democratically elected government). Why would you not support their democratic process and hold their elected government to the same standard?

Second, you say you hold them to a higher standard because they receive 'goodies' from the United States. This does not impact the democratic process at all, so that point is moot. Do you think Palestine/Hamas should be held to the same standard as, say, Iran? Iran ships weapons to Hamas. Is this relevant?

Again, could you please clarify your position.

 

[bigjelmapro]

Israel and the USA have a special relationship. This relationship includes lots of gifts and treats, plus special diplomatic goodies..especially when it comes to UN Sec. Con. votes.

With ALL of this in mind, I expect just a wee bit more from Israel, than I do from nations that don't have such a "special" relationship.

So all in all, there's no demand and this is just a word play game. "Special" in the case of the US-Israel relationship is more bi-lateral than any other. So I expect a little less whinging from US civilians who think that there are to be demands made from those who are ill-informed about basic concepts of bi-lateral trade, the private military industries in each country, foreign policy and so forth.

'Gifts and treats'. Pfft, you think this is Halloween?

There's still that other thread which I outlined one of these issues (ie military purchases) which you have yet to respond to.

This 'wee bit' I expect from you...

 

[Thunder]

not worth it. tired of this silly game.

 

[Elind]

what's the deal with what?

when the USA and Palestine have a "special relationship", which comes with lots of treats and goodies that no other nation receives, I shall also apply a special-super-duper higher standard upon Palestine.

You perhaps are not aware that, unlike Israel, the Palestinians have largely been living on welfare, treats and goodies included, for the past 60 years or so.

 

[Thunder]

You perhaps are not aware that, unlike Israel, the Palestinians have largely been living on welfare, treats and goodies included, for the past 60 years or so.

I consider the $3 billion a year given to Israel on a yearly basis since 1981, to be welfare on a massive scale.

It was the beginning of America's bribery relationship with Israel, whereby we give them money, and they try to behave...or just thumb their nose at us and accuse of anti-Semitism when we ask them to be diplomatic and reasonable.

 

[davefoc]

You perhaps are not aware that, unlike Israel, the Palestinians have largely been living on welfare, treats and goodies included, for the past 60 years or so.

Once again an Israeli/Palestinian thread descends into the same old themes. Israeli partisans denigrating Palestinians to prove the righteousness of Israeli actions. Something like they're so violent or they're so mislead that the hardworking righteous Israelis have no choice but to grab their land and water. In this case, we have the, they're so economically unsuccessful that they are lucky to have Israelis to help them along, or some such.

All the while ignoring billions of dollars in reparations and billions of dollars in aid that have poured into Israel. And ignoring the effects of Israeli walls and Israeli water grabbing and Israeli security stations on the economy of Palestine.

Here's a thought: Give it a rest. A bunch of Europeans moved into land that was occupied by somebody else. Those people resisted and the European colonizers won. There is no great moral principle here to be found that will justify this. It is a story that has been repeated many times. Eventually, sometimes over the very long term, the enmity is replaced by new alliances and new cultural norms and the people will form new ethnic groups and alliances to divide themselves and hate each other.

But right now the process of reconciliation has been put on hold while the last remnants of the European colonizer's territorial goals are sated with funding for the effort largely courtesy of an easily manipulated US government.

 

[portlandatheist]

I consider the $3 billion a year given to Israel on a yearly basis since 1981, to be welfare on a massive scale.

It was the beginning of America's bribery relationship with Israel, whereby we give them money, and they try to behave...or just thumb their nose at us and accuse of anti-Semitism when we ask them to be diplomatic and reasonable.

Has Israel ever accused the US of being anti-Semitic or is this a strawman?
Are you also arguing that Israel would behave much worse towards Palestine if it weren't for American bribery but it would also be better if we did not bribe them?

 

[Thunder]

Here's a thought: Give it a rest. A bunch of Europeans moved into land that was occupied by somebody else.

but..but..these Europeans were promised the land by God!!!!!

 

[Thunder]

Has Israel ever accused the US of being anti-Semitic or is this a strawman?

Shamir accused Bush of anti-Semitism when he didn't want to extend loan guaruntees to Israel.

 

[WildCat]

Once again an Israeli/Palestinian thread descends into the same old themes. Israeli partisans denigrating Palestinians to prove the righteousness of Israeli actions. Something like they're so violent or they're so mislead that the hardworking righteous Israelis have no choice but to grab their land and water. In this case, we have the, they're so economically unsuccessful that they are lucky to have Israelis to help them along, or some such.

All the while ignoring billions of dollars in reparations and billions of dollars in aid that have poured into Israel. And ignoring the effects of Israeli walls and Israeli water grabbing and Israeli security stations on the economy of Palestine.

Here's a thought: Give it a rest. A bunch of Europeans moved into land that was occupied by somebody else. Those people resisted and the European colonizers won. There is no great moral principle here to be found that will justify this. It is a story that has been repeated many times. Eventually, sometimes over the very long term, the enmity is replaced by new alliances and new cultural norms and the people will form new ethnic groups and alliances to divide themselves and hate each other.

But right now the process of reconciliation has been put on hold while the last remnants of the European colonizer's territorial goals are sated with funding for the effort largely courtesy of an easily manipulated US government.

You don't have the slightest idea what colonialism is, do you?