Ancient Pyramids and other structures, astronomical alignment & similarity.

[Spung]

From an architectural history POV, showing that various cultures developed corbelled vaulting is like marveling that so many cultures started using a post-and-lintel system, or making containers out of clay.

 

[Marduk]

From an architectural history POV, showing that various cultures developed corbelled vaulting is like marveling that so many cultures started using a post-and-lintel system, or making containers out of clay.

well I was going to post pictures of the burial vaults of all the thousands of cultures that didn't get as far as working out corbelling, but theres been a problem

 

[Toke]

well I was going to post pictures of the burial vaults of all the thousands of cultures that didn't get as far as working out corbelling, but theres been a problem

Nobody went strait for arches?

 

[Marduk]

Nobody went strait for arches?

Its currently the paradigm that the arch developed from corbelling, so to answer your question
errr No

 

[Toke]

Its currently the paradigm that the arch developed from corbelling, so to answer your question
errr No

Ok, I am not that surprised.

 

[Marduk]

anyone know of any similarities that can't be easily explained ?

 

[Toke]

anyone know of any similarities that can't be easily explained ?

The use of swords?
Obsidian ones sounds like a rather perverse engineering feat when compared to bronze or iron/steel.

 

[Marduk]

The use of swords?
Obsidian ones sounds like a rather perverse engineering feat when compared to bronze or iron/steel.

not really, Stone - metal is the natural order and the new stone age ended with metallurgy. As far as I am aware it was only in America that obsidian swords caught on, everywhere else used obsidian for other tools like arrowheads and scrapers and it was widely traded. I think its important to remember that the purpose of battle for those groups was to capture prisoners alive. The Spanish of course showed the fallacy of that tactic

 

[Toke]

I have just read up a bit on it, those obsidian "sword" were quite effective and must have been worth the effort to make them.
As for the warfare it seems that the prisoner taking happened mostly after the battle as an alternative to cutting down the fleeing losers.

 

[Marduk]

I have just read up a bit on it, those obsidian "sword" were quite effective and must have been worth the effort to make them.
As for the warfare it seems that the prisoner taking happened mostly after the battle as an alternative to cutting down the fleeing losers.

they were effective against other people armed with obsidian swords, spanish steel, plate armour and cannon not so much, and iirc they were only wielded by noblemen. They were notoriously fragile as well, you couldn't go through a prolongued battle and expect them to last

 

[Spung]

In terms of art, the usual woo suspects trotted out are the (very superficial) similarities in motifs between the NWPC peoples (Tlingit, Haida, Kwakiutl) and the Olmec and (eek) the Shang and now Sanxingdui finds. (ETA: and the Ainu-- between them and the NWPC might not be TOO far fetched)
Does the fact that the "true" arch was so NON-universal in ancient cultures put a big damper on claims of far-flung geographical dispersions? If corbelling and trabeate architecture was dispersed in that way, why not the arch?
Obsidian's awesome and you sort of just find it on the ground-- smelting metal is crazy complicated. Catal Huyuk made its fortunes on obsidian trade (as Marduk noted there WAS a lot of obsidian use in Eurasia, but maybe not sword-sized chunks. Were Mesoamerican obsidian swords "common" or ritual?)

 

[Akhenaten]

Sorry your dietyship, I should have said it was meant for KotA, I ask in the name of Ast and Hetheru that you extend mercy upon me.

No drama mate. I think I bestowed some kind of blessing back up there ^ somewhere.

Just in case I didn't: Ankh udja seneb

I should have figured it out myself anyway, but I have the odd 'senior's moment'



Cheers mate.

 

[Akhenaten]

Form follows function, would be my first suggestion. Of course, IANAE.

Don't let that hold you back, after all IANAP.

 

[Marduk]

In terms of art, the usual woo suspects trotted out are the (very superficial) similarities in motifs between the NWPC peoples (Tlingit, Haida, Kwakiutl) and the Olmec and (eek) the Shang and now Sanxingdui finds. (ETA: and the Ainu-- between them and the NWPC might not be TOO far fetched)
Does the fact that the "true" arch was so NON-universal in ancient cultures put a big damper on claims of far-flung geographical dispersions? If corbelling and trabeate architecture was dispersed in that way, why not the arch?
Obsidian's awesome and you sort of just find it on the ground-- smelting metal is crazy complicated. Catal Huyuk made its fortunes on obsidian trade (as Marduk noted there WAS a lot of obsidian use in Eurasia, but maybe not sword-sized chunks. Were Mesoamerican obsidian swords "common" or ritual?)

The Egyptians give the biggest clue to why the arch isnt universal, they used it in tombs and in small constructions but never for temples. I'm guessing that Arch's don't do too well when the earth shakes or when its being attacked. It wasn't until the invention of concrete that it had enough stability for larger projects
In the Americas they didnt use sword size chunks, Obsidian is so brittle it would shatter at the first strike
they used it like this

the teeth are the Obsidian, the rest is wood.

 

[Elizabeth I]

they were effective against other people armed with obsidian swords, spanish steel, plate armour and cannon not so much, and iirc they were only wielded by noblemen. They were notoriously fragile as well, you couldn't go through a prolongued battle and expect them to last

At least when it broke, you would still have sharp pieces you could cut someone with. Of course, as the battle went on, it would become closer and closer-quarter fighting...

 

[Toke]

At least when it broke, you would still have sharp pieces you could cut someone with. Of course, as the battle went on, it would become closer and closer-quarter fighting...

Apart from looking unbalanced for a sword the edge breaking apart bit can only be an advantage.
Remember, they were not supposed to kill the fleeing at the end of the battle, but rather stun them with the flat of the "blade".

 

[JoeTheJuggler]

Somewhat off-topic, but the same principle holds true in biological evolution: convergence.

Organisms that have to deal with the same type of environment end up with similar-looking adaptations. Eyes are extremely useful and have evolved many times. Fish, marine mammals and marine birds (penguins) all have similar body shapes and appendages.

 

[Marduk]

Somewhat off-topic, but the same principle holds true in biological evolution: convergence.

Organisms that have to deal with the same type of environment end up with similar-looking adaptations. Eyes are extremely useful and have evolved many times. Fish, marine mammals and marine birds (penguins) all have similar body shapes and appendages.

hehe I never thought of it that way before, so to prove hyper diffusion, all one needs to do is prove intelligent design
good luck with that KotA

 

[Belz...]

But there are three of them.... OMG the triple breasted whore of Eroticon Six visited ancient Egypt!

Maybe that little one was just a third nipple.

 

[Hellbound]

Don't let that hold you back, after all IANAP.

LOL

It didn't stop me, considering that I could look at 90%+ of the others who've posted in this thread

But, In case I was wrong somehow, I wanted a pre-prepared excuse for you actual experts

On a more serious note, I do seem to recall someone proposing the theory that you could raft, via major ocean currents, from Africa to the Americas. I think there was a Discovery show or something on it. I understand this would not result in any sort of prolonged or frequent contact, due to the difficulty of the crossing (and how desperate/crazy/stupid the would-be explorers would have to be to attempt it). Is there any resason to suspect that this might have happened, or does anyone know any more about it? I'm not even sure what to google to narrow it down (I don't want to end up with a bunch of woo sites discussing how they rafted back and forth using mana-powered outboard motors that bigfoot brought them from Atlantis before dying for our sins in the UFO--how much woo can you fit in a single sentence ).