Ancient Pyramids and other structures, astronomical alignment & similarity.

[Marduk]

RoboTimbo, don' be a *****-O.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AWESOM-O

 

[RoboTimbo]

Funny, I thought that response was targeted at you.

RoboTimbo, don' be a ****-O.

It would be funny if it had been!

 

[King of the Americas]

[qimg]http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_mlPoGU4VqSk/SBnMkLhkoVI/AAAAAAAACQU/oAsNhf3x7wg/s400/awesomeo5to.gif[/qimg]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AWESOM-O

Your Google Fu is strong...

 

[King of the Americas]

they don't look the same (even from above(different size, colour, orientation)) and they aren't in any way similar, there are no true pyramids anywhere in the Americas so asking if theres any similar in Egypt is a bit pointless. Polynesian temples are the closest in appearance to American ones,

now that we've managed to clear that up, does anyone have anything relevant to this topic to add ?

Question: "Do you ever bring building techniques back home?"

Ever see something and say, "I wanna put something like that in MY yard."

I mean, we know that the two structures weren't built at the same time, so is it possible that one inspired the other?

ANYTHING being possible, I say "Yes." However...I am not suggesting there exists now evidence to make this a 'probable' scenario. That said, finding similar structures of similar sizes on two different continents certainly doesn't prove the two cultures weren't connected or aware of each other.

---

Where's the BEST megalithic stonework, including present or current works?

What single structure represents human mastery in cutting, moving, shaping, and joining "large" stones? *Award points for overall size and the size of individual pieces, difficulty to cut and shape, uniformity of joints, and ability to stand the test of time. NO POINTS for shortcomings in technology. You don't get credit for having to work in the bronze age without diamond tipped cutters.

Straight up, who's is the best?

 

[Marduk]

Question: "Do you ever bring building techniques back home?"

There is no evidence this ever happened in the ancient world at all

I mean, we know that the two structures weren't built at the same time, so is it possible that one inspired the other?

right so youre saying that the Egyptian pyramids inspired the American ones, then perhaps you can tell me why there are no true pyramids in America. they are all stepped.

ANYTHING being possible, I say "Yes." However...I am not suggesting there exists now evidence to make this a 'probable' scenario. That said, finding similar structures of similar sizes on two different continents certainly doesn't prove the two cultures weren't connected or aware of each other.

You are saying yes because you research on tv programs and woo sites, youve never seriously looked at the evidence and you don't even know what evidence there is. So your "yes" amounts to wishful thinking and racism
---

Where's the BEST megalithic stonework, including present or current works?


What single structure represents human mastery in cutting, moving, shaping, and joining "large" stones? *Award points for overall size and the size of individual pieces, difficulty to cut and shape, uniformity of joints, and ability to stand the test of time. NO POINTS for shortcomings in technology. You don't get credit for having to work in the bronze age without diamond tipped cutters.

Cologne Cathedral is commonly regarded as the height of stone engineering, no culture in the ancient world would have a clue how to build it. It was millenia ahead of their best efforts
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cologne_Cathedral

Straight up, who's is the best?

The monuments of the Neolithic are commonly regarded as the most awe inspiring. But the largest stone ever moved by man without machinery was the thunder stone which is the plinth of the Bronze Horseman in Russia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bronze_Horseman#The_Thunder_Stone
it is several degrees heavier than anything ever moved before or since.

You will no doubt be labouring under the delusion that
1. we couldn't build a stone pyramid if we tried
2. we do not know how the ancients handled and cut stone
3. we do not know who built some of the ancient structures

all the above are totally false
we know everything about them.

None of these things that are wowing you are at all remarkable. If you research from woo sites they won't tell you that we know everything about them, those type of sites are designed to make money from peoples gullibility and personal research laziness. No unqualified person has ever made any contribution to the mysteries of archaeology, because as soon as you get qualified you realise that there are no mysteries. I'm still waiting for you to answer an earlier question
Do you know who discovered Troy ?

 

[King of the Americas]

There is no evidence this ever happened in the ancient world at all

right so youre saying that the Egyptian pyramids inspired the American ones, then perhaps you can tell me why there are no true pyramids in America. they are all stepped.

You are saying yes because you research on tv programs and woo sites, youve never seriously looked at the evidence and you don't even know what evidence there is. So your "yes" amounts to wishful thinking and racism
---

Cologne Cathedral is commonly regarded as the height of stone engineering, no culture in the ancient world would have a clue how to build it. It was millenia ahead of their best efforts
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cologne_Cathedral

The monuments of the Neolithic are commonly regarded as the most awe inspiring. But the largest stone ever moved by man without machinery was the thunder stone which is the plinth of the Bronze Horseman in Russia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bronze_Horseman#The_Thunder_Stone
it is several degrees heavier than anything ever moved before or since.

You will no doubt be labouring under the delusion that
1. we couldn't build a stone pyramid if we tried
2. we do not know how the ancients handled and cut stone
3. we do not know who built some of the ancient structures

all the above are totally false
we know everything about them.

None of these things that are wowing you are at all remarkable. If you research from woo sites they won't tell you that we know everything about them, those type of sites are designed to make money from peoples gullibility and personal research laziness. No unqualified person has ever made any contribution to the mysteries of archaeology, because as soon as you get qualified you realise that there are no mysteries. I'm still waiting for you to answer an earlier question
Do you know who discovered Troy ?

I wouldn't 'perfectly' copy someone else's building. That would be gay, not that there's anything wrong with that...

AND the smooth or perfect pyramid was the final evolution of the structure in Egypt. There ARE indeed step pyramids in Egypt.

That we have similar structures of similar sizes COULD BE evidence that the two cultures had contact. It certainly does rule out this possibility.

---

I asked a question, Marduk. Feel free to keep your speculation(s) to yourself.

But thanks for the 'links' THEY are appreciated.

 

[Marduk]

I wouldn't 'perfectly' copy someone else's building. That would be gay, not that there's anything wrong with that...

AND the smooth or perfect pyramid was the final evolution of the structure in Egypt. There ARE indeed step pyramids in Egypt.

There were only a small handful of step pyramids built in egypt, the last in 2650bce iirc. You are comparing those with pyramids built thousands of years later and thousands of miles away which are built from a different material and which served a different purpose. Wake up and smell the coffee

That we have similar structures of similar sizes COULD BE evidence that the two cultures had contact. It certainly does rule out this possibility.

It isn't a possibility, unless one of the cultures had time travel, why are you repeatedly failing to understand this. You made a stupid remark and now everyone here is repeatedly showing you why it was stupid and you keep on saying the same thing, its as if you have us all on ignore

I asked a question, Marduk. Feel free to keep your speculation(s) to yourself.


.

I haven't speculated anywhere in this thread, I don't need to, I know the facts, maybe you should try this novel approach


gonna answer my question or not ?

 

[EHocking]

Whatever rocks your feathered battleship I guess, but I really don't understand the intent of this post at all.

The point was to outline all the other structures the KotA was ignoring in order to crowbar some date into supporting his preferred "hypothesis" that Mesoamerican pyramids coincidentally are similar in size/dimenstions to Egyptian ones.

Why are you trying so hard to convince me that the American and Egyptian Pyramids are unconnected in any way?

Wouldn't you be better off trying to convince someone who belives in a connection, rather than the most vocal critic in the thread of any connection whatsoever?

Eh, I just responded to the thread at the wrong post, is all. No jab at you, except you seemed (to me) to be letting KotA off the hook with the "I doesn't look like a pyramid to me, either". The sources I quoted includes Cholula as a pyramid, it seemed to me that KotA was selectively filtering in order to get the data to fit.

The last para was just to show that Khufu is not the best match Egyptian pyramid, so his initial premise is flawed based on the data anyway.

 

[JoeTheJuggler]

I wouldn't 'perfectly' copy someone else's building. That would be gay, not that there's anything wrong with that...

YEs, there is something wrong with using "gay" as a derogatory term.

AND the smooth or perfect pyramid was the final evolution of the structure in Egypt. There ARE indeed step pyramids in Egypt.

That we have similar structures of similar sizes COULD BE evidence that the two cultures had contact. It certainly does rule out this possibility.

I don't think you understand the term "evidence". How is it that something "could be" evidence? Either it is evidence or it isn't.

In this case, you've already been challenged on the concept of "similar size". Even if they were, there are a host of other reasons why things produced by cultures that have never been in contact might be of similar size. (Door ways tend to be similar in size. That could have something to do with the fact that humans are more or less similar in size. Post and lintel stone buildings have a lot of similarities--maximum span, for example--that are strictly limitations of that type of simple structure and the available materials.)

So, we have several valid explanations why something made by cultures that have had no contact might be similar. On the other side, you've got an outlandish and unparsimonious explanation for that similarity (that the two cultures were in contact).

How do you go about determining whether or not the similarity is evidence that they've been in contact? I invite you to think about this.

You've several times asserted that we don't know things that we certainly do know. Even if it were true that we didn't know these things, our ignorance of anything can never be an argument in support of a particular hypothesis.

Also, when you have spare time you might want to peruse this website:

http://www.badarchaeology.net/index.php

 

[EHocking]

I wouldn't 'perfectly' copy someone else's building. That would be gay, not that there's anything wrong with that...

AND the smooth or perfect pyramid was the final evolution of the structure in Egypt. There ARE indeed step pyramids in Egypt.

That we have similar structures of similar sizes COULD BE evidence that the two cultures had contact. It certainly does rule out this possibility.

Except that we DON'T have structures of similar size - unless you ignore a whole bunch of data.

Not so much coincidence as ignoring every other structure that doesn't meet his preconception.

Here's the base area (metres) of the top 6 pyramids in Mesoamerica compared with Egypt.

Mesoamerica

Cholula |202,500
Teotihuacan |49,952
Xochitecatl |14,000
Tenochtitlan |8,000
Tenayuca |3,100
Chichen Itza |3,058

Egypt

Khufu |53,038
Sneferu |48,400
Khafra |46,333
Sanakht|40,000
Sneferu | 35,344
Sneferu Endures | 20,736

ETA: I see JoeTheJuggler beat me to it.

 

[Marduk]

Also, when you have spare time you might want to peruse this website:

http://www.badarchaeology.net/index.php

this page is especially relevant
http://www.badarchaeology.net/old/three.php
look for Hyper-diffusion 2/3 down the page and pay special attention to where it says

These hyper-diffusionists used any similarity to make connections: institutions such as marriage, the practice of mummification and similar sounding words could be taken as evidence for the movement of peoples. These were the sorts of arguments that boosted late nineteenth-century believers in Atlantis, as the source of all civilisations.

and this one
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trans-cultural_diffusion

 

[King of the Americas]

There were only a small handful of step pyramids built in egypt, the last in 2650bce iirc. You are comparing those with pyramids built thousands of years later and thousands of miles away which are built from a different material and which served a different purpose. Wake up and smell the coffee


It isn't a possibility, unless one of the cultures had time travel, why are you repeatedly failing to understand this. You made a stupid remark and now everyone here is repeatedly showing you why it was stupid and you keep on saying the same thing, its as if you have us all on ignore


I haven't speculated anywhere in this thread, I don't need to, I know the facts, maybe you should try this novel approach


gonna answer my question or not ?

That's it, you're back on my ignore list.

 

[Marduk]

That's it, you're back on my ignore list.

<<<bothered
NOT

 

[King of the Americas]

YEs, there is something wrong with using "gay" as a derogatory term.

I don't think you understand the term "evidence". How is it that something "could be" evidence? Either it is evidence or it isn't.

In this case, you've already been challenged on the concept of "similar size". Even if they were, there are a host of other reasons why things produced by cultures that have never been in contact might be of similar size. (Door ways tend to be similar in size. That could have something to do with the fact that humans are more or less similar in size. Post and lintel stone buildings have a lot of similarities--maximum span, for example--that are strictly limitations of that type of simple structure and the available materials.)

So, we have several valid explanations why something made by cultures that have had no contact might be similar. On the other side, you've got an outlandish and unparsimonious explanation for that similarity (that the two cultures were in contact).

How do you go about determining whether or not the similarity is evidence that they've been in contact? I invite you to think about this.

You've several times asserted that we don't know things that we certainly do know. Even if it were true that we didn't know these things, our ignorance of anything can never be an argument in support of a particular hypothesis.

Also, when you have spare time you might want to peruse this website:

http://www.badarchaeology.net/index.php

Now you're being gay, not that there's anything wrong with that. Have you ever seen Seinfeld?

These similarities 'could be' a false positive. However, if tomorrow we discover some set of plans or letters that detail how the meso-americans DID visit Egypt, and 'tried' to replicate the style in their buildings back home, then these similarities WOULD be evidence. Until then, I'm withholding judgement.

 

[Dancing David]

The ball court is 272 ft by 199 ft...

MUCH smaller than a soccer field..but similar to a regulation football field...

My point in making the query was that I think it would be UNLIKELY to find two sports facilities on different continents that had less than 2% differences in footprint sizes and general shapes.

However this point is useless as it compares two structures with the same function, which is not the case with these pyramids.

Except that ball courts vary in size all over Mexico and across the eras where they exist.

(At least the ball courts of the Toltec/Aztec peoples.)

 

[Belz...]

I wonder how similar they'd look next to one another, or from flying above...?

I mean if you didn't have the mean to measure, would the 'look' the same size?

Why don't you simply answer my question ?

 

[Dancing David]

Wow...truly, I've never even heard of this "Cholula" complex...

Although, after looking at it, I am not sure I'd call it a pyramid.

OMFSM, you must not read very well. It is a well recognised structure, well escavated. It started as what?
It went through many incarnations as what?

You have got to be kidding me.

It is kind of a cool tour, you can go through the sucker and see all teh different phases of construction.

 

[Marduk]

These similarities 'could be' a false positive. However, if tomorrow we discover some set of plans or letters that detail how the meso-americans DID visit Egypt, and 'tried' to replicate the style in their buildings back home, then these similarities WOULD be evidence. Until then, I'm withholding judgement.

Jesus H Christ man, the Culture that youre talking about was on the other side of the world and didn't exist until hundreds of years after the Egyptian culture had collapsed (for the last time)
and the pyramids do not look like mesoamerican temples, besides which Peru is not in mesoamerica.
look
egyptian pyramid

Mesoamerican temple

what similarity are you attempting to show proves contact here. A person would have to be a real retard to even think there was any.

 

[Dancing David]

Someone told me to check out this site, and that there were some highly intelligent people in here, but after reading some of the posts, I'm sure I'm in the wrong place.

People with higher intelligence are usually open minded about things and can go with the flow of changing and accepting new ideas. I guess Sara Palin said it best, only dead fish go with the flow.

Just keep hammering that round peg, I'm sure it will fit in that square hole eventually.

I would say welcome, but you won't last.

 

[King of the Americas]

Except that ball courts vary in size all over Mexico and across the eras where they exist.

(At least the ball courts of the Toltec/Aztec peoples.)

I KNOW, so finding two of similar size and shape on separate continents would be an 'uncommon' thing, especially if we are talking pre-Columbus times.