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Amish School Shooting

CFLarsen said:
So, it's the culture as a whole that is more violent? Interesting.
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You ask for other possible causes. I list other possible causes and then you draw this conclusion. Do your critical thinking abilities only extend to viewpoints with which you disagree? Because you sure seem perfectly happy using all kinds of fallacies to support your own position.
 
Arkan_Wolfshade said:
You ask for other possible causes. I list other possible causes and then you draw this conclusion. Do your critical thinking abilities only extend to viewpoints with which you disagree? Because you sure seem perfectly happy using all kinds of fallacies to support your own position.
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I'm sorry, but I don't understand what you are saying.

What fallacies have I used here?
 
Dr. Imago said:
Three of the patients came to my institution. I took care of one of them in the trauma bay. She is unlikely to make it, but I can only hope I am wrong...

And, we treat Amish patients all the time, notably the traumas. And, they pay every single cent they are billed without argument. And, they never sue (i.e., they are the most grateful, pleasant peaceful, kind, understanding, not-trying-to-push-my-beliefs-on-you people you will ever meet.)

I'm absolutely devastated right now. I just got home and am still in a fog. No one should ever have to see an innocent six-year-old who never did anything to anyone with a gunshot in her head and her gray-matter sticking out.

-Dr. Imago

(Yes, this is the Ed's honest truth.)
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I read this this morning before I went to work, and I've been thinking about it all day. Now I read that a seven-year-old girl died at the hospital.

My thoughts go out to you, and to the families and friends of all involved.

And Larsen, show some sympathy and go troll another thread.
 
Dr. Imago said:
Three of the patients came to my institution. I took care of one of them in the trauma bay. She is unlikely to make it, but I can only hope I am wrong...

And, we treat Amish patients all the time, notably the traumas. And, they pay every single cent they are billed without argument. And, they never sue (i.e., they are the most grateful, pleasant peaceful, kind, understanding, not-trying-to-push-my-beliefs-on-you people you will ever meet.)

I'm absolutely devastated right now. I just got home and am still in a fog. No one should ever have to see an innocent six-year-old who never did anything to anyone with a gunshot in her head and her gray-matter sticking out.

-Dr. Imago

(Yes, this is the Ed's honest truth.)
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The kids came home yesterday asking about "Weird Al" Yankovic. After watching the news I had to hug them first, then looked up Al on Youtube and showed them a couple of videos, but they saw "Amish Paradise" on the list. I had to explain why I didn't want to watch that right now. When I was living in Mankato, MN there was a small Amish or Minonite community nearby. I would spot them at the mall occasionally and they ran a furniture store on the outskirts of town. They were always kind and gentle people, they also had a great sense of humor. I was buying a futon from the store and chit-chatted a bit with the proprieter. He over-simplified (I suspect) his life style for me, saying if it isn't in the bible they can't do it. I asked what he does for fun, he replied "I got 7 kids. That's in the Bible." I still chuckle when I remember it.
 
Dr. Imago,

Just want to let you know I'm thinking of you and your team during this time. I'm sure those girls got the best care possible.

Take care of yourself.

TS
 
This belongs in CFL’s boom-boom-boom thread, not here. But I understand his obsession, however bull-necked his manner. Those poor little children.

We can hypothesize that American culture is more violent than some others, no harm in articulating an idea; the question’s worth examining.

I don’t know what factors we can use to measure a society’s tendency toward violence, but I’m farily certain that work has been done on the problem. I’ve even heard of sociologists (or crimnologists?) breaking the problem of American violence down on a regional basis, for example theorizing that the South has a greater tendency that way than the North.

If American society, or parts of it (America is not all one piece), is extra-prone to violence, that’s a pretty urgent argument for more gun control, seems to me. You don’t give an idiot child a sharp knife, and you don’t risk putting a gun into the keeping of an unsocialized yahoo – at least, no more than you can help.

Still, I wish CFL would butt out of here for a while.
 
sackett said:
I’ve even heard of sociologists (or crimnologists?) breaking the problem of American violence down on a regional basis, for example theorizing that the South has a greater tendency that way than the North.
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The FBI came up with that assessment, in its summary of murder statistics. In the Boom Boom thread, one of my posts has IIRC a link to the fbi stats page, and the summary.
If American society, or parts of it (America is not all one piece), is extra-prone to violence, that’s a pretty urgent argument for more gun control, seems to me. You don’t give an idiot child a sharp knife, and you don’t risk putting a gun into the keeping of an unsocialized yahoo – at least, no more than you can help.
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I think your gun suggestion is an attempt to fix a symptom, not a cause. Upchurch points out the per capita gun ownership in Canada as being higher than America, but the violence rate is considerably lower. That argues for the socioligists, leaders, and us parents, to consider in depth what we do collectively to shape the culture, with its back stories and background. The story tellers have a role to play in this, as stories, myths (the Minuteman for 50, Alex) and legends are all parts of the cultural river that we swim in.

I dont see how the glorification of violence is new to American culture. I think you could argue that it is an embedded feature of our cultural base since the nation's inception via successful armed surrection. Resolving our disagreement North / South via arms versus other means is another marker. (Canada stands in sharp contrast in comparison, though their challenges were of a different nature.)

DR
 
Just thinking said:
Mad at something that I'm sure he could not have ever supplied direct evidence to show existed in the first place.

Funny thing -- if I believed that someone was going to kill 6 year old girls execution style because he had issues with me, I would do something to try and stop it -- or at least warn the victims ahead of time. (You know ... given this all-powerful and all-knowing stuff.)

What was God so busy doing that He couldn't intervene?
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So, you expect a lightning bolt or something?

Gee ... will anyone lose a touch of faith over this?
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Perhaps some. Certainly not me. I wonder about Robert's poor wife.

And if that's not enough, there will be those that will pray to this same god for healing that allowed this to transpire.
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Yup.

People who are angry with or hate God are dangerous.
 
Thanks to you Ryokan and TruthSeeker for your kind thoughts. I have to be careful about what I say here because it is a real event that has involved real people and, recognizing that I'm a licensed healthcare provider, I have certain legal and ethical obligations to the parties involved.

Suffice it to say that the child, and I emphasize the word child, I took care of in the trauma bay yesterday died overnight last night. There have been conflicting reports about which patients went where, but our facility received three, and two other Level 1 trauma centers received the others.

All I can say is that I was truly sickened by this. No one should have to endure witnessing the outcome of such senseless, selfish and truly sick cruelty perpetrated on another human being, forgetting the fact that this was a completely innocent child.

I have so many thoughts on this... unfortunately I'm on call right now, and I don't have time to elaborate more. Maybe more later...
 
Dr Imago:
How very sad for you and for your patient. I'd just like to say Thank You to you and all your collegues for your work, not just in this instance, but for the job you do every day.
 
CFLarsen said:
And yet, there are more killings in the US.

If it isn't the weapon, what other explanation is there?
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I wish I knew. Many books have been written about this subject, and there hasn't been one catch-all answer for a serial killer's behavior. The most common thread, from what I understand, is abusive households when they were growing up. John Wayne Gacy's father used to lock himself in the basement, get drunk, then come upstairs and beat the family. That may have been one reason why he had a fixation with burying his victims in his basement.

I don't think it's solely a cultural thing, because speaking from experience, I do not own a gun, I have no desire to purchase one and have only fired a handgun once and a rifle once, both times as a young teenager during target practice with my uncles. Having lived in Brooklyn, New York for over 4o years, I never felt the desire to arm myself, and I've taken the train through all types of neighborhoods at all times of day and night. None of my friends own guns. The only relatives who have them live in the mountains and they use them for target practice and hunting season.

I think the only reason why this man shot up the school kids is not because of the culture he lived in, but because, like Lucy the nurse, maybe he was just freaking nuts and if it wasn't a gun or medical instrument, it would have been something else. Irrational people don't need rational excuses.

Michael
 
Dr. Imago said:
Thanks to you Ryokan and TruthSeeker for your kind thoughts. I have to be careful about what I say here because it is a real event that has involved real people and, recognizing that I'm a licensed healthcare provider, I have certain legal and ethical obligations to the parties involved.

Suffice it to say that the child, and I emphasize the word child, I took care of in the trauma bay yesterday died overnight last night. There have been conflicting reports about which patients went where, but our facility received three, and two other Level 1 trauma centers received the others.

All I can say is that I was truly sickened by this. No one should have to endure witnessing the outcome of such senseless, selfish and truly sick cruelty perpetrated on another human being, forgetting the fact that this was a completely innocent child.

I have so many thoughts on this... unfortunately I'm on call right now, and I don't have time to elaborate more. Maybe more later...
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You are a braver person than I will ever be.

Michael
 
"If it isn't the weapon, what other explanation is there?"

So lack of imagination and creativity to come up with alternate explanations means the one they did drudge up is correct?

Tell us why such illogic should be taken seriously again?
 
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