Cont: All things Trump + Russia Part 3

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Crossbow said:
As far as I can tell, even the ardent Trump supporters have conceded the now obvious fact that there were at least a few highly placed people in the Trump campaign who were in collusion with the Russians in order to help Trump win the election.

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I don't think we have that. There is evidence of a willingness to collude, but you don't have the smoking gun of a handshake, either.
 
Upchurch said:
With the holidays, I've fallen behind in my lurking.

I take it there are folks who don't believe that the Trump campaign was working with the Russians, but are any still denying that there was contact between the two? Is anyone denying that the Russians were actively helping the Trump campaign and the GOP in general?
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Nobody is denying that the Russians preferred Trump over Killary, not least because of his campaign promises about trying to fix the relationship that had so much suffered due to the machinations of mostly Obama's State Department and CIA.

As to the "Collusion" conspiracy theory, at the forefront of research is now who did what in the small group which hoaxed that CT. The FBI side is pretty clear, the DoJ side is under increasing open source investigation at the moment.

As a main goal of the hoax dossier was to get a warrant to spy on the political opponent, which was successful and led to the gotcha! moments with Flynn and Papadopoulus, it is totally clear that no surprise revelations are to come from the Mueller investigation. Because if there were a there there, we would know for a long time already, thanks to the surveillance.

The revelations to expect are in the investigation of the conspirators to hoax a conspiracy.

Results due in January.
 
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Childlike Empress said:
Nobody is denying that the Russians preferred Trump over Killary, not least because of his campaign promises about trying to fix the relationship that had so much suffered due to the machinations of mostly Obama's State Department and CIA.

As to the "Collusion" conspiracy theory, at the forefront of research is now who did what in the small group which hoaxed that CT. The FBI side is pretty clear, the DoJ side is under increasing open source investigation at the moment.

As a main goal of the hoax dossier was to get a warrant to spy on the political opponent, which was successful and led to the gotcha! moments with Flynn and Papadopoulus, it is totally clear that no surprise revelations are to come from the Mueller investigation. Because if there were a there there, we would know for a long time already, thanks to the surveillance.

The revelations to expect are in the investigation of the conspirators to hoax a conspiracy.

Results due in January.
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The Dossier probably didn't have much to do with the Warrant since it was known Flynn Lied, as did Manafort to the State department.
That along with CIA monitoring of Russian Communications was sufficient for the Warrant The Dossier, is just another distraction.
 
Childlike Empress said:
Because if there were a there there, we would know for a long time already, thanks to the surveillance.
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You're making the same mistake that the Russian propaganda sites you like linking to do - of assuming that the fact that information hasn't been released publicly is the same thing as no information existing. You don't know what colour my eyes are, but that doesn't mean that my eyes are colourless.
 
BobTheCoward said:
It isn't clear that there was collusion. It is clear they wanted to collude.you mentioned smoking guns. There isn't a smoking gun that a successful agreement or understanding was reached.
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Well then, since you insist that torture is constitutional, I guess you have forgotten about the meeting between that Donald Trump Jr., Jared Kushner, and Paul Manafort had with a Russian lawyer who claimed to have documents and incriminating information about Hillary Clinton.

This is just one of several examples of highly placed Trump campaign officials colluding with Russia.
 
Crossbow said:
Well then, since you insist that torture is constitutional, I guess you have forgotten about the meeting between that Donald Trump Jr., Jared Kushner, and Paul Manafort had with a Russian lawyer who claimed to have documents and incriminating information about Hillary Clinton.

This is just one of several examples of highly placed Trump campaign officials colluding with Russia.
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But there is nothing that proves they shook hands on collusion. All parties deny it. You have no recording of the meeting. You have no secret communication after the meeting detailing a plan. It isn't a smoking gun. It is clear willingness to collude (what I said). You really don't have something to prove they are wrong about the proposed scenario that she lied to discuss the adoption law.

Torture, under certain circumstances, is absolutely constitutional.
 
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BobTheCoward said:
But there is nothing that proves they shook hands on collusion. All parties deny it. You have no recording of the meeting. You have no secret communication after the meeting detailing a plan. It isn't a smoking gun. It is clear willingness to collude (what I said). You really don't have something to prove they are wrong about the proposed scenario that she lied to discuss the adoption law.

Torture, under certain circumstances, is absolutely constitutional.
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This is the most nonsensical defense of anything I've ever seen in my entire life. You're basically saying that they had every desire to do it, but didn't because...huh? This "smoking gun" ******** is just that. It's burying ones head in the sand in order to deny the reality happening all over. People have been arrested, emails have come out, there is a consistent trail leading to arrests. Why? Why even bother making such a flaccid argument?
 
BobTheCoward said:
But there is nothing that proves they shook hands on collusion. All parties deny it. You have no recording of the meeting. You have no secret communication after the meeting detailing a plan. It isn't a smoking gun. It is clear willingness to collude (what I said). You really don't have something to prove they are wrong about the proposed scenario that she lied to discuss the adoption law.

Torture, under certain circumstances, is absolutely constitutional.
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True, I do not have a recording of this meeting. But as I said, this was just one case of many which show high Trump officials colluding with the Russians.

Further, this may be news to an incredibly smart person like yourself, but criminals often deny that they did something criminal. Just like many people who have used torture deny that they did anything illegal by using torture.

Therefore, one needs to be quite careful about using statements from people doing criminal acts in order to serve justice.
 
Squeegee Beckenheim said:
You're making the same mistake that the Russian propaganda sites you like linking to do - of assuming that the fact that information hasn't been released publicly is the same thing as no information existing. You don't know what colour my eyes are, but that doesn't mean that my eyes are colourless.
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It is almost 2018, Squeegee. You have been waiting faithfully all the time, and I told you all the time it is in vain. Saint Mueller isn't coming. You've been fooled. To the extent that everybody who hasn't is a "Russian agent" in your mind. That's embarrassing.
 
plague311 said:
This is the most nonsensical defense of anything I've ever seen in my entire life. You're basically saying that they had every desire to do it, but didn't because...huh? This "smoking gun" ******** is just that. It's burying ones head in the sand in order to deny the reality happening all over. People have been arrested, emails have come out, there is a consistent trail leading to arrests. Why? Why even bother making such a flaccid argument?
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I don't invoke "smoking gun." Crossbow did in post 220. I pointed out that if part of the denial was that there is no smoking gun linking trump to collusion (what crossbow said in the second para) then there is also no smoking gun for what he alleged in his first paragraph.
 
Childlike Empress said:
It is almost 2018, Squeegee. You have been waiting faithfully all the time, and I told you all the time it is in vain. Saint Mueller isn't coming. You've been fooled. To the extent that everybody who hasn't is a "Russian agent" in your mind. That's embarrassing.
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With your exceptional skills at determining future events, then you must one of those incredibly wealthy people who built their fortune by only buying winning lottery tickets.
 
Crossbow said:
True, I do not have a recording of this meeting. But as I said, this was just one case of many which show high Trump officials colluding with the Russians.

Further, this may be news to an incredibly smart person like yourself, but criminals often deny that they did something criminal. Just like many people who have used torture deny that they did anything illegal by using torture.

Therefore, one needs to be quite careful about using statements from people doing criminal acts in order to serve justice.
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We were talking about "smoking gun." I don't think you have any smoking guns in any of this. Is there stuff other than smoking guns? Sure. But you are the one who brought up the term.
 
Crossbow said:
With your exceptional skills at determining future events, then you must one of those incredibly wealthy people who built their fortune by only buying winning lottery tickets.
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Ever wondered why I and my "Russian propaganda sites" make these predictions if we know that there is something to cover up and had to fear your magnificent checks and balances would finally uncover it and wash away our puppet president?

Didn't think so.
 
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Childlike Empress said:
Even wondered why I and my "Russian propaganda sites" make these predictions if we know that there is something to cover up and had to fear your magnificent checks and balances would finally uncover it and wash away our puppet president?

Didn't think so.
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Still accusing people of relations that don't exist.
 
BobTheCoward said:
We were talking about "smoking gun." I don't think you have any smoking guns in any of this. Is there stuff other than smoking guns? Sure. But you are the one who brought up the term.
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There may be smoking bus that are for now hidden in the fog of the Investigation.
 
Childlike Empress said:
Even wondered why I and my "Russian propaganda sites" make these predictions if we know that there is something to cover up and had to fear your magnificent checks and balances would finally uncover it and wash away our puppet president?
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Same reason those people were dumb enough to do it in the first place? They thought they could get away with it? Are you implying that the Russian government doesn't cover anything up? That they never lie and say they haven't done something that they have? Oh man *insert laughing dog*

Go ahead, CE. Pull the other one.

Childlike Empress said:
Didn't think so.
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:rolleyes:
 
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