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Afghanistan

In the "Afghanistan -- would Trump have done differently?" thread (in the USA Politics subforum), Hercules56 just said this:
Hercules56 said:
He would have pulled our troops out by May 1st, as he promised, and taken ZERO Afghans with us.
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This is an interesting remark, in view of what we know now (a big attack targeting people wanting to leave the country). Perhaps: "How being just selfish can save lives".
 
Michel H said:
No (see post #97).
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And, pray tell, what is the diffrence between a Jew fleeing Nazi Germany, or a RUssian fleeing Soviet Russia and an Afghan fleeing what anybody who is not living in another reality knows i going to be a brutal Taliban regime?
 
trustbutverify said:
I think westerners who promote this laughable drivel should should be forcibly relocated to Afghanistan immediately, while Afghans with the good sense to prefer not to live in a violent Islamic nightmare should be welcomed to Belgium (etc...) with open arms.

I mean this literally.
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I more then every think this is the latest verson of Rosseua crap Nobel Savage theory...that (for lack of a better word) primitive,less developed peoples are automatcially purer,more spiritual, and generally morally superior to corrupt Modern Society.
 
dudalb said:
And, pray tell, what is the diffrence between a Jew fleeing Nazi Germany, or a RUssian fleeing Soviet Russia and an Afghan fleeing what anybody who is not living in another reality knows i going to be a brutal Taliban regime?
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There is an essential difference between a Jew fleeing Germany in the 1930s, and an Afghan fleeing Afghanistan now, in the sense that the Jews in Germany were no longer welcome in their own country (according to their government, which was thinking about relocating all of them in Madagascar), while the Taliban have decreed an amnesty, and have expressed concern about the departure of so many of their fellow citizens.

One might argue that most of the Afghans leaving now are actually cowards and traitors to their own country, who exaggerate the Taliban threat ("They are going to kill me if they know what I have done" (sic)), in order to be able to emigrate. Resettling them in the West will be complicated and expensive (and sometimes painful for them) at a time when the world is in a crisis:
KABUL, Afghanistan — In his first sit-down interview with a Western media outlet since the Taliban took full control of Afghanistan, one of the group’s leaders on Wednesday offered a portrait of a group intent on rebuilding a country shattered by decades of war.

“We want to build the future, and forget what happened in the past,” the spokesman, Zabihullah Mujahid, said in an interview with The New York Times.
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He also denied allegations that the Taliban have been searching for former interpreters and others who worked for the American military, and claimed that they would be safe in their own country. And he expressed frustration at the Western evacuation efforts. “They shouldn’t interfere in our country and take out our human resources: doctors, professors and other people we need here,” Mr. Mujahid said. “In America, they might become dishwashers or cooks. It’s inhuman.”
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(https://www.nytimes.com/live/2021/08/25/world/afghanistan-taliban-kabul-biden-news).

One might argue that the Biden administration is now trying to develop a new kind of crime against humanity: removing all intellectual and economic elites from a country, this being combined with various forms of ferocious and idiotic sanctions (central bank reserves frozen and so on). They may know what they're doing, but I am not sure at all their goal is to help the 38 million Afghans. Let me just say it's the "American way".
 
dudalb said:
Yeah, making people slaves to the state is OK with Michael H.
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Not slaves, the Taliban have a duty to do all they can to provide them with a good life.

But the U.S. might be a more dangerous enemy to the Afghan people than the Taliban themselves (note that I said "might", because I am actually not sure about this).
 
Michel H said:
One might argue that the Biden administration is now trying to develop a new kind of crime against humanity: removing all intellectual and economic elites from a country, this being combined with various forms of ferocious and idiotic sanctions (central bank reserves frozen and so on). They may know what they're doing, but I am not sure at all their goal is to help the 38 million Afghans. Let me just say it's the "American way".
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It's nice that you are so far superior to those all educated people such that you know what's best for them better than they do.

Honestly - you make them sound like subhuman animals who can't comprehend what's good, but you will be their savior from on high.

They are human people who can make their own choices - they don't need your supremacist views to guide them.
 
crescent said:
It's nice that you are so far superior to those all educated people such that you know what's best for them better than they do.
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Those educated people might have an intelligent understanding of what is good for them, personally.

But there are other important aspects: the country they leave behind, the problems they will face in their new countries, the cost of resettling them, geopolitical considerations of peace and justice.

I make no claim of being "superior" to anyone, my opinions are just my own. But I do have some general ideas about peace and progress which, I think, may be of interest. These ideas, if implemented, could profoundly change the world. It would be something different from "every week, a new terror attack".
 
Michel H said:
Not slaves, the Taliban have a duty to do all they can to provide them with a good life.

But the U.S. might be a more dangerous enemy to the Afghan people than the Taliban themselves (note that I said "might", because I am actually not sure about this).
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The Taliban do not care what you think their duty is, and they feel no obligation to fulfill your imagined duty. And they do not agree with you about what a good life is. For them, raping women is a good life.
 
The Taliban might be chums with Beijing, but that just makes Chinese enterprises in the country a jucy target for anti-Taliban groups.
 
Even if you're not superior,

Michel H said:
....I make no claim....But I do have some general ideas about peace and progress which...if implemented, could profoundly change the world....
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you should publish. I mean, changing the world? And profoundly even? Sounds worth the effort.

I know! Start a thread here!
 
Mike! said:
Wonder how China would react to an attack on their financial interests there?
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They would be willing to kill lots and lots of people in response.

But I don't think they are actually able to do very much. Afghanistan and China technically share a border, but there are no roads across it, and it's at the end of this weird protrusion through pretty barren wasteland. Overland access has to be through Turkmenistan. That country is friendly enough, but that still only gets them to the border. China's military has scant experience with foreign deployments OR counter-insurgency, and it doesn't have a whole lot of airlift capacity. Even from just a logistics point of view, projecting power into Afghanistan is a nightmare for them. They may be far more ruthless than we are, but that doesn't mean they'll have any more success.

Probably their best leverage is to bribe Pakistan into keeping the Taliban in line, but that's of likely limited efficacy. Pakistan created the Taliban, and may have some influence with them still, but the monster is already off the leash.
 
Ziggurat said:
They would be willing to kill lots and lots of people in response.

But I don't think they are actually able to do very much. Afghanistan and China technically share a border, but there are no roads across it, and it's at the end of this weird protrusion through pretty barren wasteland. Overland access has to be through Turkmenistan. That country is friendly enough, but that still only gets them to the border. China's military has scant experience with foreign deployments OR counter-insurgency, and it doesn't have a whole lot of airlift capacity. Even from just a logistics point of view, projecting power into Afghanistan is a nightmare for them. They may be far more ruthless than we are, but that doesn't mean they'll have any more success.

Probably their best leverage is to bribe Pakistan into keeping the Taliban in line, but that's of likely limited efficacy. Pakistan created the Taliban, and may have some influence with them still, but the monster is already off the leash.
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Re. the highlighted: Turkmenistan is on the other side of Asia. Do you mean Tajikistan- which is more affiliated with Russia than with China- or perhaps Xinjiang, which was formerly known as Turkestan?
 
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