Adnan Syed - Serial / Undisclosed

[Ampulla of Vater]

Don is a better suspect.
1. There is evidence that Hae said that she planned to meet Don right after school.

What evidence. She was going to go to a wrestling match.

2. It looks like his mother forged his time sheet for when the murder took place. This is supported by a number of current and former Lexotica employees who say that there are problems with it. Time between job sites (working at two stores) also seems to support that he was not working the times listed.

Who are the Lexotica employees? Remember, Firedman Bob claimed to have called a Lenscrafters that was no longer open. He lied about that. Tell us who the others were who went on the record stating there were problems with the time sheet. In fact, the time sheets were found to be consistent with (then) practices of having separate employee numbers for separate locations.

3. The police called to try to get in contact with him much earlier and he did not call them back until around 01:00 am. Based on some evidence on the body, that would have been soon after burying her. I think that Bob Ruff may have additional evidence of guilt that he is keeping under wraps. Get between the lines that he thinks it supports Don being the murder as well.

Why oh why would Firedman Bob keep any evidence under wraps? These are the same people who leaked only partial documents, leaving out the parts which made Syed look bad. They were called on it when the MPIA file was obtained by some good citizens.

But most importantly, what evidence on the body indicates Hae was buried just before 1:00AM? Because that would be evidence the cops don't even have!

 

[Ampulla of Vater]

Wilds is the other suspect. It would not be the first time a male acquaintance kill a female he lust on because she refused his advance or he wants to hide a rape. Just sayin'.

Except Jay was with other people so there is that. He, unlike Syed, has a multiple-witness alibi.

 

[Desert Fox]

Why oh why would Firedman Bob keep any evidence under wraps? These are the same people who leaked only partial documents, leaving out the parts which made Syed look bad. They were called on it when the MPIA file was obtained by some good citizens.

You do know that this is a skeptical board. . . . .I have no idea if he was fired or not but you just committed one of the classic logical fallacies.

It is called an "Ad hominem"

 

[Ampulla of Vater]

You do know that this is a skeptical board. . . . .I have no idea if he was fired or not but you just committed one of the classic logical fallacies.

It is called an "Ad hominem"

So you still got nothing to refute the evidence, huh?

(and yes, he was fired.)

 

[Desert Fox]

No, I don't argue with unsubstantiated stuff coming off of reddit.

Edit: One thing that people should consider is that while Jim Clemente might disagree with Bob Ruff on his conclusions on some cases, he does appear to respect him. That seems to show that Bob Ruff is a person of integrity.

 

[Ampulla of Vater]

No, I don't argue with unsubstantiated stuff coming off of reddit.

Edit: One thing that people should consider is that while Jim Clemente might disagree with Bob Ruff on his conclusions on some cases, he does appear to respect him. That seems to show that Bob Ruff is a person of integrity.

Oh my, everything I wrote is substantiated in the police files or by provable events.

How about you substantiating your claims as I requested in post 241? http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11371699&postcount=241 This is a skeptics' forum. You aren't taken seriously if you can't back up your assertions.

You're going to have to do better than "We should believe what nobody#1 says because he has integrity because Jim Clemente appears to respect him." That is one of the silliest justifications I've read on this forum, especially considering some of the absolute ridiculous statements nobody#1 has made over the last 8 months.

Are you here just to sling fabricated statements you are unable to back up with real evidence or are you here for a legitimate discussion of the evidence?

 

[Aepervius]

Yes, you read wrong. I asked him to address the other evidence.



The fact that 3 separate witnesses overheard him ask Hae for a ride after school (opportunity), despite the fact that he had a car.

The fact that he told the cop he did not ask Hae for a ride.

The corroborating evidence from Jenn Pusateri and NHRN Kathy.

His possessiveness of Hae as described in her diary.

That he called Hae 3 times the night before she went missing and never called her again.

Etc. etc. etc...

His response was:



I do not consider that an answer.

The problem is that the tower thing introduce reasonable doubt. He was convicted because of *all* evidence, not because the particular one you keep citing. And again, if the particular tower can communicate with phone over a long distance, and there was no other tower switch over, his presence at the park cannot be substantiated, which makes the case fall all over.

I am sorry, but witness are poor evidence by the way. No matter the numbers. Which is why you need corroborating evidence. If you don't have them, there is a well jolly reasonable doubt.

And that's enough.

 

[Desert Fox]

I am sorry, but witness are poor evidence by the way. No matter the numbers. Which is why you need corroborating evidence. If you don't have them, there is a well jolly reasonable doubt.

The only real witness is Jay of the ever changing stories. The judge himself basically pointed this out.

 

[Desert Fox]

I think I should at least cover this. . . . .It is pretty clear that Ampulla of Vater has made serious mistakes in his post.

For example he/she writes
What evidence. She was going to go to a wrestling match.

There was no wresting latch though
http://www.ew.com/article/2015/08/24/5-key-finding-undisclosed-serial-adnan-syed
1. There was no wrestling match
Asia McClain may still be Syed’s ticket to freedom. On the premise that attorney Christina Gutierrez gave him ineffective counsel – failure to interview McClain as a potential witness and not looking into the possibility of a plea bargain – Maryland’s Court of Special Appeals recently gave Syed permission to reopen his appeal. However the former classmate’s claim that she was with Syed at the library until 2:40 p.m. seemingly didn’t help his alibi when Serial talked to Lee’s co-manager on the wrestling team, Summer, who recalled talking to Hae until around 2:50 or 3 p.m. about attending the Randallstown wrestling match that night. But, Undisclosed learned that Woodlawn High School didn’t have a wrestling match on Jan. 13 and that the Randallstown match was held the previous week. This means Summer’s recollection of the date is inaccurate, and Becky, a mutual friend of both Syed and Lee, would have been the last person to see Lee alive when she was heading to her car after school at 2:15 p.m.

Edit: Should add this
https://viewfromll2.com/2015/03/12/...car-was-not-written-on-the-day-of-the-murder/
The Woodlawn vs. Randallstown Wrestling Match was on January 5, 1999

Woodlawn High School could not have had a wrestling match against Randallstown High School on the day that Hae was murdered, because Woodlawn had already had their match against Randallstown the week before, on Tuesday, January 5, 1999:

 

[Desert Fox]

With respect to Don being at least as viable a suspect as Adnan, Susan Simpson is actually the person who first put it together.
She is careful to distance herself from considering him to be the probable murderer however.
https://viewfromll2.com/2015/03/19/serial-the-question-of-dons-alibi/

 

[bagels]

The heart of the case is Jay and his testimony is corroborated 3x, by knowing the location of the car, having told Jen before the body was discovered, and having told another friend before the body was discovered (I forget his name).

But since his post Serial interview he has changed his story yet again. I think 15+ years and changing stories will make Jay an easy target for the defense in a new trial, if it even gets that far. It's also a little fishy that Jen tried to give Jay an alibi for a time we know he was with Adnan, although she could just b e mis-remembering exact times.

The less credible Jay looks the more I would want to know how involved he was in the crime, the less I would be certain about sending Adnan to prison for life. I think the police went easy on Jay and got away with it because Adnan's defense was inept.

I still think Jay did it with Adnan but was potentially a lot more involved than his testimony states. Will be interesting to see how this all plays out now.

 

[Desert Fox]

How do you know that Jay was not fed the information by the cops?
Jen, the same, either fed by Jay or by the cops.

Also, the friend "Neighbor Boy" did not see a body in the trunk
Here is an interview with him (The actual interview in the transcript starts on page 9)
http://nebula.wsimg.com/674ef3ef3c0...82BA953C88967DEFE&disposition=0&alloworigin=1
Auto Interview although starts a ways in
https://audioboom.com/boos/3559667-ep-118-neighbor-boy

 

[bagels]

I'm talking about that old school friend or whatever Jay confessed to in a bar or something, if I'm remembering correctly its been a while.

Jay would have had to make up the murder story like....5 minutes after he found out Hae went missing, in time to tell Jen about the burial at 8 pm, and/or get her to lie to the police that he is indeed an accessory after the fact to murder, before he even knows what deal the police will give him, and it all has to conveniently match up with the other known evidence in the case...and the police have to have conveniently found the car just hours before they interview Jay despite spending the last month or whatever looking for it.

There's really no way Jay isn't involved in this murder.

 

[Desert Fox]

From what I read, cops will sometimes leave a car in its original location to troll for those involved in a crime. In addition, in the neighborhood it was found, a car in as nice a condition as it was and unattended would likely have been broken into fairly quickly - certainly not taken something like a month. In addition, it seemed like he did not lead them to the location but it was more like meandered to. There are several Undisclosed podcasts which delve into the fact that the timelines are not as clear cut as you are trying to argue.

Look, I need to be clear here. I cautiously think that Adnan is not guilty but I am not certain. There is also the possibility that he certainly is guilty. I am as certain as can be that Jay's story is bovine excrement however.

I am also a little scared that we may be, assuming that Adnan is guilty but found not guilty, releasing a murderer without therapy back into the public. I am also scared that he has been radicalized in Islam with his time in prison.

 

[bagels]

I do wish the whole interview was recorded, instead of just the "official" interview they entered into evidence. I think there's no excuse these days to not record and video tape every second a suspect/witness is talking in police custody.

The police not knowing the location of the car is partially corroborated by them sending out a notice to a completely separate department the same day of the interview asking for help locating it, and that it was still missing. It just gets really hard to believe Jay didn't know where the car was.

 

[Desert Fox]

I do wish the whole interview was recorded, instead of just the "official" interview they entered into evidence. I think there's no excuse these days to not record and video tape every second a suspect/witness is talking in police custody.

The police not knowing the location of the car is partially corroborated by them sending out a notice to a completely separate department the same day of the interview asking for help locating it, and that it was still missing. It just gets really hard to believe Jay didn't know where the car was.

I don't have all the answers, I mostly have ideas. James Randi is famous for arguing that one should not take too much stock in things that appear to be amazing coincidences. With millions of events all happening in our lives, there are going to be amazing coincidences.

Interestingly, I know how little we should accept what he says, but he said that in the location it was found, he would find it eventually. It is in effect in his personal stomping grounds.

I would argue that it is interesting how his stories seem to indicate that he and Adnan are in the same car but yet it should have been Jay driving Adnan's car and Adnan driving Hae's car. In addition, he has this big story involving shovels yet odds are she was buried in what was probably a natural hollow and just basically covered with loose soil and debris. Odds are high that shovels were never used.

 

[Ampulla of Vater]

I think I should at least cover this. . . . .It is pretty clear that Ampulla of Vater has made serious mistakes in his post.

For example he/she writes
What evidence. She was going to go to a wrestling match.

There was no wresting latch though
http://www.ew.com/article/2015/08/24/5-key-finding-undisclosed-serial-adnan-syed
1. There was no wrestling match
Asia McClain may still be Syed’s ticket to freedom. On the premise that attorney Christina Gutierrez gave him ineffective counsel – failure to interview McClain as a potential witness and not looking into the possibility of a plea bargain – Maryland’s Court of Special Appeals recently gave Syed permission to reopen his appeal. However the former classmate’s claim that she was with Syed at the library until 2:40 p.m. seemingly didn’t help his alibi when Serial talked to Lee’s co-manager on the wrestling team, Summer, who recalled talking to Hae until around 2:50 or 3 p.m. about attending the Randallstown wrestling match that night. But, Undisclosed learned that Woodlawn High School didn’t have a wrestling match on Jan. 13 and that the Randallstown match was held the previous week. This means Summer’s recollection of the date is inaccurate, and Becky, a mutual friend of both Syed and Lee, would have been the last person to see Lee alive when she was heading to her car after school at 2:15 p.m.

Edit: Should add this
https://viewfromll2.com/2015/03/12/...car-was-not-written-on-the-day-of-the-murder/
The Woodlawn vs. Randallstown Wrestling Match was on January 5, 1999

Woodlawn High School could not have had a wrestling match against Randallstown High School on the day that Hae was murdered, because Woodlawn had already had their match against Randallstown the week before, on Tuesday, January 5, 1999:
[qimg]https://viewfromll2.files.wordpress.com/2015/03/sun-1-6-99-report-on-woodlawn-randallstown-match.png?w=584[/qimg]

She was the manager of the wrestling team. She went to all the matches, regardless of who they were against.

 

[Ampulla of Vater]

I'm talking about that old school friend or whatever Jay confessed to in a bar or something, if I'm remembering correctly its been a while.

Jay would have had to make up the murder story like....5 minutes after he found out Hae went missing, in time to tell Jen about the burial at 8 pm, and/or get her to lie to the police that he is indeed an accessory after the fact to murder, before he even knows what deal the police will give him, and it all has to conveniently match up with the other known evidence in the case...and the police have to have conveniently found the car just hours before they interview Jay despite spending the last month or whatever looking for it.

There's really no way Jay isn't involved in this murder.

This is important because of those, such as DF who claim the police knew the car was there for some time. In the MPIA, there are documents showing the detectives were trying to obtain a helicopter to fly over and look for the car just a couple days prior to them contacting Jenn and asking her to come down to the station to talk to them.

Of course we know how it went after that: Jenn subsequently went to Jay and asked, "What am I supposed to do? They want to question me." Jay told her to tell them the truth and send them to him.

The point being the detectives did not know where Hae's car was until Jay led them to it. There is corroborating evidence for that in the MPIA file. It is a talking point for those attempting to get a killer out of prison.

 

[Desert Fox]

She was the manager of the wrestling team. She went to all the matches, regardless of who they were against.

According to the View from LL2, there was no listing for Woodlawn having a wrestling match in the Baltimore Sun for January 13th. They do however have a listing for for Randallstown playing Carver January 13th. In addition, Woodlawn had a match against Loch Raven January 12th. High school wrestling teams rarely will have matches two days in a row. If there was a match, it was unreported. The best documented evidence is that there simply was no match that day.

 

[Ampulla of Vater]

According to the View from LL2, there was no listing for Woodlawn having a wrestling match in the Baltimore Sun for January 13th. They do however have a listing for for Randallstown playing Carver January 13th. In addition, Woodlawn had a match against Loch Raven January 12th. High school wrestling teams rarely will have matches two days in a row. If there was a match, it was unreported. The best documented evidence is that there simply was no match that day.

Lack of documentation does not mean it didn't happen.

But you are really getting bogged down in minutiae here. How much of the MPIA have you read, or have you been getting most of your information from LL2? That is a highly biased source for evidence. It is best to not use sources with an agenda, and to do your own investigating.