Adm: I desperately need help

[Non-Sense Homeopath]

Can you prove it or provide mechanisms of actions for the following remedies:

Helium
Gold
platinium

These are not available in 6x in pakistan.

But first of all tell me, do you believe gold 6x contain any constitute of gold in it?

 

[Non-Sense Homeopath]

Can you provide evidence?

YES

First of all tell me which personality is interested in knowing the evidence, is he capiable of understanding the evidence. what is his/her background in the field of medical science. tell us the name of that personality?

 

[geni]

These are not available in 6x in pakistan.

So what?

But first of all tell me, do you believe gold 6x contain any constitute of gold in it?

It is posible but it would depend on a number of factors.

 

[Donks]

YES

First of all tell me which personality is interested in knowing the evidence, is he capiable of understanding the evidence. what is his/her background in the field of medical science. tell us the name of that personality?

Rolfe. BSM. ThirdTwin. Geni. And the lowly engineers are also interested.

 

[Perpetual Notion]

YES

First of all tell me which personality is interested in knowing the evidence, is he capiable of understanding the evidence. what is his/her background in the field of medical science. tell us the name of that personality?

Here's the thing Kumar/Non-Sense: We know you're never gonna answer our questions and you know you're never gonna answer our questions. So, do you think you could at least come up with some new, more exciting stalling techniques instead of the ones you all have been using since pretty much day one? You know, just to keep it lively?

Here's some suggestions to get you started:

1) I had the theory right here, but my tiger ate it
2) I thought I brought it with me today, but I must have left it in my other elephant
3) We all came to a consensus to be completely reasonable and answer all your questions, but then Mas was abducted by aliens at the homeopathy conference.

See there, something like that would keep us all from nodding off with boredom and would probably give you a nice little change in your daily posting routine. Feel free to use pretty colors when you post - it's kind of growing on me.

 

[Zep]

First of all tell me which personality is interested in knowing the evidence, is he capiable of understanding the evidence. what is his/her background in the field of medical science. tell us the name of that personality?

This man would like to know.

 

[MRC_Hans]

YES

First of all tell me which personality is interested in knowing the evidence, is he capiable of understanding the evidence. what is his/her background in the field of medical science. tell us the name of that personality?

No. This is a public discussion forum. You have no right to demand personal details here. If you do not very soon provide the explanation you claim to have, I am going to conclude that you are lying.

Hans

 

[MRC_Hans]

This man would like to know.

Uhh, Zep; Benveniste has died recently. I don't think he cares anymore .

Hans

 

[MRC_Hans]

Heheh, the title of this thread is taking on a totally new meaning. "I desperately [sic] need help"

"Help me, I thought I could dispense with these skeptics as easily as I deal with the peasants back home, but they have me painted into a corner.

I tried to pull the qualification card, but half a dozen of them easily outqualify me, and they keep bringing up nasty questions and math that I can't even understand.

Quick! Somebody help me to cover my retreat so I can get out without loosing face!"

... Don't worry about loosing face anymore, you have no face left to loose. Don't worry about bowing out gracefully, we don't expect you to bow while lying flat on the floor. Look to military tactics instead: You are in a hopeless position, so just cut your losses and RUN!

Hans

 

[Badly Shaved Monkey]

But first of all tell me, do you believe gold 6x contain any constitute of gold in it?

Yes, but I need to you to help me by telling me how much there is.

Edited to get it in colour and size to help the homeopath.

 

[Rolfe]

Yes, but I need to you to help me by telling me how much there is.

Mmm, I'm with Geni on this one. Maybe, maybe not.

Gold is very poorly soluble in whatever solvent they're using. So are we talking about a fine suspension, and relying on them to keep it suspended while doing all the dilution steps? (Alternatively, they could be triturating it with sugar powder.) Anyway, if they're using liquid succussion and dilution, and not being careful to keep the gold in suspension, it's possible they might run out completely quite early.

Rolfe.

 

[Badly Shaved Monkey]

Mmm, I'm with Geni on this one. Maybe, maybe not.

Gold is very poorly soluble in whatever solvent they're using. So are we talking about a fine suspension, and relying on them to keep it suspended while doing all the dilution steps? (Alternatively, they could be triturating it with sugar powder.) Anyway, if they're using liquid succussion and dilution, and not being careful to keep the gold in suspension, it's possible they might run out completely quite early.

Rolfe.

True, but the exercise is all about setting upper bounds. In this instance the real quantity is going to be even smaller than for the soluble remedies.

 

[Ashles]

I'm finding it very interesting that Non-Sense (and others) is scrabbling around desperately trying to get people to say that there might be some effect at 6X (even if it is due to clealy non-homeopathic reasons).

Isn't the real homeopathic action supposed to be up in the 200C range? Surely the 6X range is hardly of interest to homeopaths as a barely effective remedy.

All the homeopaths should be concentrating on showing how amazingly effective the high dilutions are, yet all they seem to want to talk about are the weakest ones.

I think the fact that they are so focused on the 6X remedy is the most telling aspect of this entire debate.

They are only interested in taliking about the end of the spectrum where normal scientific effects are observable. Very interesting.

 

[Rolfe]

They are only interested in taliking about the end of the spectrum where normal scientific effects are observable. Very interesting.

Except, as we've discovered in the other thread, as a direct result of their obsession, with only the possible exception of botulinum A toxin (assuming an improbably highly-concentrated mother tincture), there are no normal physiological effects observable at 6X either. The best you could do would be to use a very sensitive assay system to prove there was "something there" - you wouldn't be able to make any difference to a patient with it, good or bad.

"The dose makes the poison."

Rolfe.

 

[Nucular]

... Don't worry about loosing face anymore, you have no face left to loose. Don't worry about bowing out gracefully, we don't expect you to bow while lying flat on the floor. Look to military tactics instead: You are in a hopeless position, so just cut your losses and RUN!

Ummm, Hans, I think he has

 

[Homeo Man]

I'm finding it very interesting that Non-Sense (and others) is scrabbling around desperately trying to get people to say that there might be some effect at 6X (even if it is due to clealy non-homeopathic reasons).

Hi Ashles

Ok, we suggest our homeopaths to change opinions and accep the view point of bogus skeptic careers.

Tell me does homeopathic medicine work in 1x or 2x?

If you say "YES", you can win one million dollar prize.

 

[wahrheit]

Tell me does homeopathic medicine work in 1x or 2x?

If you say "YES", you can win one million dollar prize.

I can't decide between and

 

[Zep]

Uhh, Zep; Benveniste has died recently. I don't think he cares anymore .

Hans

I know, Hans, I know. But I doubt homeopaths know the significance...

 

[Zep]

Hi Ashles

Ok, we suggest our homeopaths to change opinions and accep the view point of bogus skeptic careers.

Tell me does homeopathic medicine work in 1x or 2x?

If you say "YES", you can win one million dollar prize.

At 1x or 2x it is no longer "homeopathic", is it. It's actually a sugar-water, or a sugar-alcohol mix, with bits of crushed plant or salt or dead putrifying diseased cancer in it (yum!). Which would mean that the "remedy" would be pretty much equivalent to a dry martini, a commercial cola drink, or a drowned body in a well. So are you claiming THESE are homeopathic remedies now, Homeo Man???

 

[MRC_Hans]

Actually, this move to 1x and 2x makes sense (within the slightly weird definition of "sense" prevailing in the realm of homeopathy):

One argument repeatedly brought up by certain homeopaths, especially, but not exclusively, from Pakistan, is the arguments that beladonna and such actually have an effect on humans, provided sufficient concentration. Which is hard to deny.

The hopeless leap of faith is then to think that this somehow shows that:

1) Same substances will work in ultra dilutions.
2) Any effect will be curative.

Also, of course, this position shows that they have somehow failed t ounderstand Hahnemann's original message, and it leaves them without ANY explanations for the vast majority of hoemopathic remedies where the basic substance has no appreciable effect even in considerable doses (like silica, table salt, sulphur, and numerous plant extracts).

Hans