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Aborted Sheep with human face ???

UncaYimmy said:
I've seen your explanations of this post, but I chose to respond to it anyway. You spend a lot of time beating down people who who have crazy notions in the fields in which you claim to have expertise. In this thread we have a picture of an aborted animal. The species has a head, two ears, two eyes, a nose with two nostrils, and a mouth. So do humans and an arkload of other species on the planet. The photo shows a malformed head while everything else looks pretty much like it belongs. That's meaningless on its face, pardon the pun.

We have the known issue of pareidolia coupled with the fact that humans have evolved to be especially good at recognizing faces. Of course we're going to see some meaning where none belongs.

Then you have experts in the field (pardon this second pun) saying that what is shown is not at all unusual.

As someone with medical experience I would expect you to take the two seconds to find out that sheep have 54 chromosomes and already know that humans have 46. I'm no expert in the field, but I'm thinking that presents a wee bit of a problem.

Yet despite all this, you felt the evidence was strong enough to say "maybe it is worth looking at the DNA in this case." I find that simply amazing considering how you deal with anti-vaxxers trying to find meaning in somebody falling ill a week after a flu shot. And considering the reputation you try to build for yourself as a skeptic and medical expert, it's even more disheartening.
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Well said indeed (see also the thread on smacking children).
 
When doctors test human sperm to see if it is capable of breaking through an ovums membrane they often use a hamsters ovum. I'm sure that in many cases the sperm breaks through the said membrane. However what happens to the human sperm inside the ova is unknown to me. Probably nothing happens. Perhaps the instant death of both cells. So if you put a sheeps ovum and a human sperm in the same petri disc not a darn thing would happen either.

I have a almanac that says that by genetic engineering you could take and mix any two species using gene splicing. Ok thats the almanac talking not me. The Peoples alamnac I have dates back to 1975.
 
You can do a great deal with gene splicing and similar techniques. However, a haploid sheep cell and a haploid human cell aren't capable of fusing to form a diploid, fertilised ovum. The discrepancy between the chromosome pairs is too great.

I propose to discount the suggestion that maybe nothing we know is true. Fusion of haploid sheep and human gametes doesn't occur in the world I think I am observing with my senses, if you like.

Rolfe.

ETA: The actual number of chromosomes isn't as big an obstacle as the loci on the chromosomes where the genes for different functions are located. In species as far apart as man and the sheep, these are like two packs of cards that have been comprehensively shuffled in different ways. You're only going to get fertilisation where there is minimal shuffling between the two species involved - such as two equine species, or two feline species.

Another problem is that the anatomy of the two species is far too divergent. Even ignoring the locus problem, an embryo wouldn't get very far before it would be non-viable. The idea that you could get a lamb with a human face is something out of ancient mythology.
 
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skeptigirl said:
You people are incessant.
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When every person other than yourself apparently has trouble understanding your point, perhaps you should consider that it is not everyone else that is to blame. You started off by explicitly saying that a human/sheep hybrid might be possible and that it would be worth investigating the DNA. You followed this with posts on people having sex with animals, centaurs, and the possibility of combining human DNA with that of other animals through genetic engineering.

What exactly are we supposed to understand from this? It appears very much as if you are arguing that this animal could potentially be a human/sheep hybrid due to sexual intercourse. As far as I can see, every single person who has read your posts has come to that conclusion. I'm honestly at a loss to see what else you could be trying to say. If that is not your position, perhaps you could try clarifying what you actually meant, rather than just insulting everyone who can only see the apparent meaning.

So, let's take this from the top. We have a dead baby that came out of a sheep. The face appears rather distorted, particularly being bloated. It has two eyes, a nose and a mouth, and if looked at from a particular angle it could be taken to look vaguely human. What, exactly, is your opinion on how it looks? Does it actually look vaguely human, or is that just a trick of perception that only happens from a certain angle? If you think it does look human what, exactly, is your opinion on the likelihood of this animal containing a combination of human and sheep DNA? These should be very easy questions to answer, and if the only problem here is one of communication, should clear everything up very nicely.
 
Cuddles said:
Does it actually look vaguely human, or is that just a trick of perception that only happens from a certain angle?
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I only know the one picture, and that looks vaguely human to me, indeed.

I don't know what any other angles would result in, but then I wouldn't be surprised to find that there are angles from which even humans might not look very human.

"Looks like" doesn't really tell us about what is, though.

If you think it does look human what, exactly, is your opinion on the likelihood of this animal containing a combination of human and sheep DNA?
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Zilch.

If there could ever be an animal with anything between a 30/70 to a 50/50 mix of human and sheep DNA, I wouldn't expect a human faced sheep, though. (I am not sure what I would expect, either.)

These should be very easy questions to answer, and if the only problem here is one of communication, should clear everything up very nicely.
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This.
 
It looks like a stillborn lamb to me. Boring, I know, but there it is.

Cuddles said:
It appears very much as if you are arguing that this animal could potentially be a human/sheep hybrid due to sexual intercourse. As far as I can see, every single person who has read your posts has come to that conclusion. I'm honestly at a loss to see what else you could be trying to say. If that is not your position, perhaps you could try clarifying what you actually meant, [....] These should be very easy questions to answer, and if the only problem here is one of communication, should clear everything up very nicely.
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I wish Skeptigirl would address this. Apart from saying she thought such a hypbrid was extremely unlikely (which we get, but again "extremely unlikely" is by definition possible, and she nevertheless thought it was likely enough to be worth investigating), I don't see how else her posts can be construed.

Rolfe.
 
I've read the thread from it's inception and I too thought Skeptigirl was joking. I think we'd all appreciate a bit of clarification here.
 
Rolfe said:
That's seriously gorgeous.

No, I don't know enough genetics or molecular biology to be able to explain those chromosome numbers.

I was just thinking. Some pony breeds do show a fair bit of striping. I wonder how far you'd get if you tried to breed the stripes back into Equus caballus?

The tiger-striped pony called Squirrel in Dreamsnake is genetically modified of course, but I wonder if you could do it by ordinary breeding? It would cost a fortune though.

Rolfe.
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Look up breeding back.
They have had some success doing this to recreate the extinct quagga from plains zebras.
 
Should we perhaps be a little more accommodating, and forgive the aberrances of others who propose unlikely, implausible or even downright impossible hypotheses, whether they be about corpses causing epidemics or the existence of human-sheep hybrids?
 
And maybe we would, if there was less aggressive self-righteousness and self-appointed expertness going on.

I've always found "oh, I see I was mistaken" to defuse most situations.

Rolfe.
 
I think the dead lamb looks like Eddie Izzard. That boy has some questions to answer.
 
Rolfe said:
And maybe we would, if there was less aggressive self-righteousness and self-appointed expertness going on.

I've always found "oh, I see I was mistaken" to defuse most situations.

Rolfe.
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Indeed, I must agree.
 
Rolfe --

I like mnemonics too, but ancient Greek isn't my thing. Here's what I came up with while reading this thread:

pare -- to strip away the outer layer, exposing what's underneath
idol -- a graven image, often religious
pareidolia -- stripping away the apparent image of something to show what's really there.

Works for me, YMMV.
 
Wiki FTW.

PareidoliaWP:
The word comes from the Greek para- – "beside", "with", or "alongside"—meaning, in this context, something faulty or wrong (as in paraphasia, disordered speech) and eidōlon – "image"; the diminutive of eidos – "image", "form", "shape".
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I thought that the title of this thread referred to my Ex wife. A damnable business all round you know.

It was just after the war, most of us gay young chaps were still yearning for the chance to fist any number of Jerries in the manner to which we had become accustomed. I had taken rooms in a lovely little seventeen bedroomed pied a terre, off the Mall, and as I was in those days something of a bumboy for Rear Admiral Curtain, it's proximity to Curzon Street became a blessing.

I had the misfortune to fall victim to a telegram from Mater, informing me of an imminent visit, and although various shenanigans were employed, I was unable to put her off. I prevailed upon Priscilla, 'clitoria' Wideflange, (of the Surrey Wideflanges), to arrange a suitable soiree that Pater would be allowed to enjoy, (at the time his doctors wouldn't allow him to see potatoes or knives), and we settled upon a three course viand with a soupcon of Ortolan to kick off.

Imagine my horror upon opening the door, (at a special occasion I find myself performing the more mudane tasks), to find that mater had Inveigled along my childhood amour, from the village, Carpathia Lurkinghampton, the blacksmiths daughter. I cannot indulge myself fully here, but to simply say that after four years of War in which I witnessed the full ballbag ripping horror of mans inhumanity to man, I was still taken aback by the thirty stone horror that my childhood sweetheart had become, perhaps coveys a portion of the misery.

Of course I have always had a rather difficult time of it with the old parents, as it were, ( and not wanting to put the bally inheritance in jepardy), I sans plomb ushered Mama and Papa through the hall, (of course Daddy was wheeled in by his guards), and flattened my self against the wall to allow Carpathia to gain entrance.
As you may imagine, 'Clitoria' was somewhat put out by the appearance of her corpulent rival, and entirely apropos of myself decided to pour a large measure of Fugu venom into her stew,( and damnable though it may seem, I was saving that for the state banquet), little realising in her jealous state the potential impact, (literally).
As we were repasting upon the sweet, the venom manifested, (and thank Jove, as my parental conversation had been just about exhausted), and Carpathia fell forward upon the table, upending our meal and launching Father, (who was at that moment reaching for more lobster), through the glazing and onto the lawn.
Diverse alarums followed ,(I was able to throttle the under butler in the confusion - better safe than sorry), and fortunately a visiting tinker was able to dismember the corpse of the Smiths daughter, keeping us in yummy pies for yonks.
Father was never recaptured, and I am of the belief that many sightings of the so called 'surrey puma' were in fact him. (he was a bloody Jew, the traitorous dog).

About the only good thing to result from the whole sorry mess was that I , after a prolonged bout of fisticuffs, managed to kick the damned ovaries out of Priscilla.
 
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