Aborted Sheep with human face ???

[Marduk]

Coming to a kebab near you soon

 

[Rolfe]

Question for the experts.
Would a human sperm cell even find and attempt to fertilise a sheep egg? Or sheep sperm cell and human egg?

Is there some mechanism that allows a human sperm cell to find and fertilise a human egg, and if so would this mechanism be compatible across species?

Or is the sperm cell finding an egg just chance?

I don't believe that this cross species thing working in any event because if it did, there would be lots of living proof .

It's actually about the non-compatibility of the chromosomes. The further species diverge, the more the DNA coding for specific things is "shuffled" on to different parts of the chromosomes. Closely-related species have chromosomes that aren't all that shuffled in comparison with eath other, so you'll get hybrid ducks, and mules, and ligers and things like that. (I don't know enough genetics to know what might happen if a man tried to do the dirty with a pretty chimpanzee, so I'm not speculating.)

Man and the sheep are so far away from each other genetically that even if the sperm did try to penetrate the egg, absolutely bugger-all would happen. The chromosomal incompatibility is way too much. The loci of the genes for particular features are in way different places.

That bit requires specialist knowledge, but it's knowledge I'd expect a medical professional to have. More obviously, no hybrid comes out with a body of one species and the face of the other. Even if you didn't have the chromosomal locus problem, you'd get a horrendous monster with fingers/hoofs, and how many stomachs, and so on. Actually, it would be non-viable beyond a very early embryo stage.

The photographs and the story are obvious pareidolia (I'm going to be able to spell that before this thead is done!). I'm still in shock that anyone who promotes herself as a knowledgeable medical professional should propose any other explanation in anything other than jest.

But that was a wonderful poem.

Rolfe.

 

[Sideroxylon]

Coming to a kebab near you soon

Given my proximity, I might be in the draw for that one. The face (best bit) might end up in the pot as kelle paça (sheep’s head soup).

 

[MRC_Hans]

Good poetry makes up for much.

Otherwise a lot of people would do well to memorize and use this little sentence:

"Pardon me, I wasn't thinking quite straight."

Hans

 

[Skwinty]

Thanks Rolfe,
I have done some reading in the meantime and have answered my own question.
The egg uses chemical signalling (chemotaxis)to the sperm and the sperm uses heat sensing (thermotaxis) to find the egg.
The chemotaxis is short range and the thermotaxis long range.
I doubt therefore if the human sperm would even find the sheep egg.
Even if it did, the chromosome issue you point out would negate any further efforts of the sperm and egg in the cross specie scenario.

 

[Cainkane1]

It's actually about the non-compatibility of the chromosomes. The further species diverge, the more the DNA coding for specific things is "shuffled" on to different parts of the chromosomes. Closely-related species have chromosomes that aren't all that shuffled in comparison with eath other, so you'll get hybrid ducks, and mules, and ligers and things like that. (I don't know enough genetics to know what might happen if a man tried to do the dirty with a pretty chimpanzee, so I'm not speculating.)

Man and the sheep are so far away from each other genetically that even if the sperm did try to penetrate the egg, absolutely bugger-all would happen. The chromosomal incompatibility is way too much. The loci of the genes for particular features are in way different places.

That bit requires specialist knowledge, but it's knowledge I'd expect a medical professional to have. More obviously, no hybrid comes out with a body of one species and the face of the other. Even if you didn't have the chromosomal locus problem, you'd get a horrendous monster with fingers/hoofs, and how many stomachs, and so on. Actually, it would be non-viable beyond a very early embryo stage.

The photographs and the story are obvious pareidolia (I'm going to be able to spell that before this thead is done!). I'm still in shock that anyone who promotes herself as a knowledgeable medical professional should propose any other explanation in anything other than jest.

But that was a wonderful poem.

Rolfe.

A chimp human hybrid could be made but not by adding sperm to an egg. It rquires a laboratory and gene splicing. Hopefully it will never happen but its my guess that one day it will. Poor humanzee.

 

[Cainkane1]

But I was serious.

Do I think the most likely explanation here is a hybrid? Of course not!!!!!!!!

But are we supposed to completely rule it out because it is so unlikely?

There are other hybrids known in nature. I don't believe it is a myth humans have ever got their jollies off in a sheep.

All I'm saying is, maybe it is worth looking at the DNA in this case.

Hybrids only coome about in similar species. Primates and Ungulates cannot have viable offspring no matter how earnestly they may try. Not even closely related species such as humans and chimps can interbreed via sexual activity. I would seriously suggest you read a book or two concerning biology.

However Skeptigirl I'll be kinder than the other poster and unlike him I will say that I do respect you.

 

[Rolfe]

Memo to self. Eidolon. Probably the root word. Par-eidol-ia.

I'll get it yet....

Rolfe.

 

[Skwinty]

Memo to self. Eidolon. Probably the root word. Par-eidol-ia.

I'll get it yet....

Rolfe.

As a species it is extinct; as an eidolon it retains its corporeality – but only if maintained in a state of equipoise.

 

[Damien Evans]

My son reckons he's seen the picture somewhere before:

[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/thum_29564b5183688924f.gif[/qimg]

There you are, the Prodigy predicted this weird event - the deeply strange Voodoo People is one of their best known tracks rather appropriately.

Yuri

Heh, that bears an uncanny resemblance to the face from The Wall
http://www.wired.com/images_blogs/underwire/2009/06/scarfe_wall.jpg

A reminder not to hotlink. Thank you.

Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: LibraryLady

 

[Cuddles]

The egg uses chemical signalling (chemotaxis)to the sperm and the sperm uses heat sensing (thermotaxis) to find the egg.

And once again we see the fundamental disconnect between men and women. They try to communicate with us in one way, we pay no attention at all and listen for something completely different.

 

[ddt]

Memo to self. Eidolon. Probably the root word. Par-eidol-ia.

I'll get it yet....

Rolfe.

From Greek εἴδωλον (indeed eidolon with the first o long); means image. It's related to the verb ὁράω (horao), meaning to see - a highly irregular verb, its present tense and its aorist (a past tense) derive from wholly different stems.

 

[Skwinty]

And once again we see the fundamental disconnect between men and women. They try to communicate with us in one way, we pay no attention at all and listen for something completely different.

Yup, we only listen when they have us by the short and curlies

 

[ddt]

The 2nd link talks about the different numbers of chromosomes, 64 for horses vs 44 for zebras, respectively: "The smaller number of chromosomes has to be on the male side,"

That's a sizable difference between two closely related species. I note that the "male smaller number" rule is only a rule of thumb though. Hybrids between horses (64 chromosomes) and donkeys (62) exist in both varieties: the mule (male donkey, female horse) and the hinny (female donkey, male horse). Granted, the first is more common and, more significant, the first is the only one that can be fertile (but in general isn't).

A chimp human hybrid could be made but not by adding sperm to an egg. It rquires a laboratory and gene splicing. Hopefully it will never happen but its my guess that one day it will. Poor humanzee.

Any particular reason why not by mating? Are the naughty bits physically incompatible? You may have an ethical problem but that has never really stopped something from eventually happening. And I think you'll have no problem finding a consenting human volunteer, though getting informed consent from the chimp may be a problem.

 

[Rolfe]

From Greek εἴδωλον (indeed eidolon with the first o long); means image. It's related to the verb ὁράω (horao), meaning to see - a highly irregular verb, its present tense and its aorist (a past tense) derive from wholly different stems.

Does that mean my suggested derivation was incorrect? Not that it matters as I was only using it as a mnemonic to correct my atrociously mangled spelling, but enquiring minds and all that....

Rolfe.

 

[ddt]

Does that mean my suggested derivation was incorrect? Not that it matters as I was only using it as a mnemonic to correct my atrociously mangled spelling, but enquiring minds and all that....

Your derivation was correct - the "eidolon" part was spot on. It's just one of those verbs that are highly irregular (you bet, using two different stems) I had to memorize in grammar school. The first part (par-) is a contraction of the Greek preposition παρά (para), which has widely different meanings depending on the case of the noun.

 

[Skwinty]

Does that mean my suggested derivation was incorrect? Not that it matters as I was only using it as a mnemonic to correct my atrociously mangled spelling, but enquiring minds and all that....

Rolfe.

I don't think so.

Eidolon means a representation of an ideal form.
The sheeps face seen as a representation of an ideal human face.

Pareidolia includes seeing images of animals or faces in clouds etc

 

[Rolfe]

Why would one even assume that a hybrid would end up looking half-human/half-sheep in the first place much like a centaur or the god pan or some other mystical creature?

Are there any real hybrids that turn out that way?

http://www.messybeast.com/genetics/hybrid-equines.htm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/1408717.stm

Zebra-Horse hybrids - it's not like only the rear half would have the black and white stripe design, is it?

The 2nd link talks about the different numbers of chromosomes, 64 for horses vs 44 for zebras, respectively: "The smaller number of chromosomes has to be on the male side,"

Good lord, blast from the past! Lesley Barwise-Munro is married to one of my PhD supervisors.

I was surprised by that big difference in chromosome numbers, but there's a wiki article on zebra-donkey hybrids that explains it to some extent. Lesley is not entirely correct.

Donkeys and wild equids have different numbers of chromosomes. A donkey has 62 chromosomes; the zebra has between 32 and 46 (depending on species). In spite of this difference, viable hybrids are possible provided the gene combination in the hybrid allows for embryonic development to birth. A hybrid has a number of chromosomes somewhere in between. The chromosome difference makes female hybrids poorly fertile and male hybrids sterile due to a phenomenon called Haldane's Rule. The difference in chromosome number is most likely due to horses having 2 longer chromosomes that contain similar gene content to 4 zebra chromosomes.

Common wisdom states that hybrids only occur when the zebra is the sire, but the Barbados hybrid demonstrates otherwise. Two other known zebra hinnies have been foaled but did not survive to adulthood.

I recall a tale about an Arab mare that gave birth to a zebra hybrid, told by Mary Weipers during an animal breeding lecture. The mare allegedly later gave birth to a pedigree Arab foal with stripes just like the half-zebra's, giving rise to the theory that the stripes were "imprinted on the foal bed".

Of course this is nonsense, and Mary ascribed the stripey Arab to its being a throwback to when stripes were commoner in horses than they are now. But that part of the story makes little sense. Even breeds where the stripes still show up a bit (Highland ponies for example) do not routinely produce striped foals, and a striped Arab is unheard-of. For the one and only fluke of that nature to be born to one of the very few mares who has ever given birth to a half-zebra defies credibility.

The illustrations were from a fairly old book, and I wonder if it was originally a hoax that became accepted as fact.

Rolfe.

 

[Rolfe]

I don't think so.

Eidolon means a representation of an ideal form.
The sheeps face seen as a representation of an ideal human face.

Pareidolia includes seeing images of animals or faces in clouds etc

From ddt's link.

Noun

εἴδωλον (genitive εἰδώλου) n, second declension; (eidōlon)

1. shape, figure, image
2. image of the mind: idea, fancy
3. representation, statue, idol

Especially see definition 2. Looks likely to me.

ETA: ddt seems to think it's right. I always find understanding the origin of a word helps me remember the spelling. (That's one for the gadzillions of people who can't spell "thiomersal".)

Rolfe.

 

[Skwinty]

I meant I don't think you were wrong.
I used a translation of eidolon which returned "representation of an ideal form"
but then I'm no linguist.

Bet you won't forget the spelling of pareidolia again