AA77 FDR Data, Explained

[jaydeehess]

Your timing couldnt be better jaydahees. See post 1317.

Here is one thing "Reheat", "Anti-Sophist" and "Beachnut" have over you. They understand the NTSB data as is. They just make excuses for it (missing seconds, altimeter lag, rotated map).

Now reheat,Anti-Sophist and Beachnut DO understand the FDR data? That should be of great comfort to them given the number of instances of them being told by Balsamo, Turbofan or perhaps yourself, that they do not have a competant grasp of the DFDR or the data stream involved?

Since you do not understand the data, you want someone to write up a "technical paper" essentially educating you on the equivalent of 2+2=4 for anyone with a private pilot certificate or better.

I admit that the intricate details of the system involved is not my specialty. It is not for me, that I suggest a technical paper. I do not believe that I have ever asked for such to be submitted for my benefit specifically. However even PfT and you will likely regard the NTSB, ICAO and the pilot's unions as having people who do have the requisite expertise. I have called for this to be submitted to those organizations that would have the expertise required. In fact the NTSB has been called and answers were demanded over the phone, so obviously Rob Balsamo believes that the NTSB has people with such expertise.

The question I keep asking is why the better tactic of writing and submitting a technical paper has not been done and so far the answer I have received from you is your post attacking me for not personally having the expertise to understand the system involved. That does not answer my question. Please try again.

I see that TF has written a post concerning it. I'll read it next, perhaps he has more constructive things to say.

Jaydaheess... as suggested on P4T when you were there...go here and learn... its all free...

http://www.faa.gov/education_research/

I did go there when it was first suggested to me on '05 or '06, (ETA: which I again did today and still find no pages regarding the details of how data is written, the senors devices involved or the methods used to decode the data)and could not find anything on decoding DFDR data. Perhaps you could refine that link? If you care not to then perhaps reheat or Beachnut knows where on the faa site one can find such information.

This time, try not to get so pissy. (although i dont think you will get banned here for attacking the person instead of the argument as you did at P4T when they refused to hold your hand).

So PfT isn't really interested in getting the word out is it? No one at PfT wishes to actually educate the masses or get any technical organizations to look into the allegations that the FDR data illustrates a widely different flight path for flight 77 than the physical evidence on the ground does do they?

I admit I attacked the person at PfT rather than the arguement (care to acknowledge how many posters are still there who attacked me without any more provocation other than to question PfT). I was suspended for that and when that suspension was over I never did it again yet still manged to get banned. My crime at that time was to suggest another way to get the message out other than what PfT had been doing, and continues to do.

 

[hxstamper]

I see, so you have proof that Flight 77 did not hit the Pentagon.

Basically you have no theory, no proof, and no evidence.

You are just making stuff up, right?

You are certainly entitled to believe as such. But according to the data provided by the NTSB, which they claim is from AA77, it does not support the ASCE report of impact with the light poles or impact with the pentagon. The NTSB/FBI refuse to comment, retract, correct or refute. Unprecedented.

Got any time in jets stateofgrace? Any time in Aircraft Accident Investigation.? Called L3? Sat down with an FDR Expert or even a private pilot? Ever talked to anyone, ever, at the NTSB? Has anyone here? Has anyone here put their names, faces and professional reputations on the line regarding this data as we have? (i can answer that.. no, they havent, they're afraid of Rob Balsamo). Or do you all just make excuses from behind your screen allowing the NTSB/FBI to distribute what JREFers claim is 'error filled data through the FOIA from the NTSB' which American tax dollars pay for...

So, what is it 'stateofgrace', pay for incompetence? Or helping to cover up a possible agenda.... hmmm...

 

[stateofgrace]

You are certainly entitled to believe as such. But according to the data provided by the NTSB, which they claim is from AA77, it does not support the ASCE report of impact with the light poles or impact with the pentagon. The NTSB/FBI refuse to comment, retract, correct or refute. Unprecedented.

Got any time in jets stateofgrace? Any time in Aircraft Accident Investigation.? Called L3? Sat down with an FDR Expert or even a private pilot? Ever talked to anyone, ever, at the NTSB? Has anyone here? Has anyone here put their names, faces and professional reputations on the line regarding this data as we have? (i can answer that.. no, they havent, they're afraid of Rob Balsamo). Or do you all just make excuses from behind your screen allowing the NTSB/FBI to distribute what JREFers claim is 'error filled data through the FOIA from the NTSB' which American tax dollars pay for...

So, what is it 'stateofgrace', pay for incompetence? Or helping to cover up a possible agenda.... hmmm...

So your proof is irrefutable, yes or no?

You have irrefutable proof that flight 77 did not hit the Pentagon?

Simply answer, yes or no.

 

[hxstamper]

SoG,

what part of "Pilotsfor911truth.org does not make the claim that "No Boeing 757 hit the
Pentagon". " do you not understand?

The NTSB data is proof of nothing, and we have stated as such on many occassio... you know what.. SoG.. you're a waste of time. Circular arguments, failure to click, read, and comprehend. Let readers decide.

 

[Dog Town]

It looks as if, the Pfft...fact checker was off, again, the day of this original quote.
So I fixed it for them. Tadaa!

Pilotsfor911truth.org does not make the claim that "No Boeing 757 hit the
Pentagon", we just beat around the same bush. We have analyzed the Flight Data Recorder data provided by the
NTSB, while not understanding any of it, as shown in our pathetic "analysis" of that data. We do not offer theory, but I bet you know what we're implying!

Hi Rob!

 

[WildCat]

Well.. since you refuse to click the link.. i guess i'll copy and paste it...

When do you intend to consult with real FDR experts to verify that your interpretation of the data is correct? You seem to be skipping that part...

 

[pomeroo]

ok... let me copy and paste the pertinent section of the copy/paste above. Here.. i'll even bold it for you...

Pilotsfor911truth.org does not make the claim that "No Boeing 757 hit the
Pentagon". We have analyzed the Flight Data Recorder data provided by the
NTSB and have shown factual analysis of that data. We do not offer theory


Does that help.. .or should i actually type it out.

Let's try to summarize your position:

Of the hundreds of people who saw a plane fly into the Pentagon, roughly a hundred are on record. Only the tiny handful who describe an impossible flight path count for something.

Those cherry-picked witnesses make mutually-exclusive claims, but you and your associates refuse to ask them to abandon one or both of those claims.

Again, for unfathomable reasons, the people who provided detailed accounts of their experience of seeing a plane crash into the Pentagon simply don't matter.

You allege that a plane swooped down, headed toward the Pentagon, and then pulled up at the last moment. This event was observed by NO ONE.

You allege that a plane flew over the Pentagon, another event observed by NO ONE.

You dismiss the wreckage of Flight 77 found inside the Pentagon and on the lawn by claiming that it was planted by the FBI. Evidence for this claim is NONEXISTENT.

You are forced to claim that the DNA testing that identified the passengers and crew of Flight 77 was falsified by someone, probably the FBI. Evidence for this claim is NONEXISTENT.

You argue that the FDR from Flight 77 that was found in the Pentagon was planted there. Evidence for the claim is NONEXISTENT.

You argue, bizarrely, that your imaginary conspirators placed DATA INCRIMINATING TO THEMSELVES on the data recorder THEY planted.

Hey, I've misjudged you people. I can't imagine why these nasty rationalists mock you. With a case like yours, nothing is preventing you from rushing off and winning some lucky reporter a Pulitizer Prize. Go get 'em, Tiger!

 

[hxstamper]

Hi Rob!

Dogtown.. are accusations of socks against JREF rules?

Dogtown.. tell us again how you informed Sony to go after P4T for using AC/DC in their film.... ohhh. .thats right... P4T havent sold anythnig...

So why all this anomosity toward P4T for selling stuff?

(insert laughing dog here)

AC/DC is on our side.. obviously..

And we continue to sell the DVD, even though we offer for free front page.

Dogtown.. you too are a fraud. Ever look up Rob Balsamo's Dad? Sony Music? Ouch.

 

[beachnut]

So tell us again Beachy.... how an FDR loses power at less than 0.2 G's. We really enjoyed that one...

You are unable to present facts, so you quote mind and cherry pick; just like your leader Balsamo, proud he is out in that orchard cherry picking to make up more false ideas for his next DVD to sell to suckers. Good job quote mining, but your failed accusations are not backed by facts

You call me a liar, and lack the evidence to post, yet you spew it anyway. Is this all you have, talk, hearsay and false information? yes

Darn, FDR can have data missing for unknown reasons. Does this mean you have no idea if the generator drive system on 77 can handle negative Gs? That is what you just said, you don't know anything about 9/11 or 77. Nice try at quote mining, it only shows your lack of comprehension and knowledge on 9/11 and flight 77.

 

[hxstamper]

Let's try to summarize your position:
Go get 'em, Tiger!

Ron, ready for that beer yet? Rob is.... he'll give you a call soon.

 

[jaydeehess]

Sorry that I missed this Jaydee.

I certainly acknowledge that there is a lot of activity on this thread and perhps we all skim multiple posts between our being online in this thread.

I cannot speak for Douglas, or Balsamo. Based on the relationship
and response they have had with such organizations such as the NTSB, or
P.S., I would suggest the news would not be well received.

The idea that FDR data is untrustworthy would certainly have the attention of the relevent organizations. I have long suggested that approaching them with that would be more constructive than threats and allegations or argueing with anonymous internet posters. You may suggest that the NTSB and L3 might have a conflict of interest that would lead them to push such things under-the-rug but the unions certainly would not and I doubt that all of ICAO, the NTSB and the pilots unions could all be tainted in such a manner. You want a grass roots call to action? Convince pilots that the data cannot be trusted. The guys in the front seats are not going to suffer any conflict of interest in this.

On another note, it's not the we(I) spend our days on forums trying to
win over a few people. There are several other avenues we are trying
to get the word out.

Anything from radio, internet, open letters, public meetings/presentations, etc.

It's obvious that we're not going to see eye to eye on many things. We play
on here during the day to pass time and help our own cause.

Its not working, that much is obvious. You have not gotten the attention of any relevent organization nor has your cause been receiving much MSM attention.

We need strength in numbers. We need more public figures, and professionals
to step up. Congress has already read impeachment orders. New public
figures and professionals are joining PFT, AE, etc. with every presentation.

Debatable but even if what you say is true those professionals must already know that in order to give their cause and credence the technical details must be laid out properly.

We feel our cause is justified and well researched. We are contacting MSM,
FBI, NSTB with little luck at this time. I don't know that a technical paper
will help.

What you are doing isn't working. A technical paper based upon the work you have already done, a cojent technical explanation of your position certainly could not hurt.
What does and has hurt you are the threats and allegations already made.

Comment as you all will. This is pretty much the reality and what we face
every day.

We have questions. We want answers. We want a new investigation.

Satisfy our doubts and we will stand down

Its not up to me. I can't answer all your questions. The people here who I feel can and have, you do not accept. Therefore, and given that your organization demonstrably believes that there are organizations that do have the requisite expertise, it would seem the logical next step to calmly inform those organizations of the technical reasoning behind your conclusion that the FDR data illustrates a greatly different flight path than the physical evidence on the ground.

 

[hxstamper]

Does this mean you have no idea if the generator drive system on 77 can handle negative Gs? [/FONT]

0.2 G's is positive Old timer...

And AA77 FDR can handle them. Want to debate it?

 

[pomeroo]

Ron, ready for that beer yet? Rob is.... he'll give you a call soon.

Rob and I get along fine over the phone. We can have a beer together, but he knows what I think of all this crap.

Incidentally, you didn't address any of the points I raised.

 

[beachnut]

Dogtown.. are accusations of socks against JREF rules?

Dogtown.. tell us again how you informed Sony to go after P4T for using AC/DC in their film.... ohhh. .thats right... P4T havent sold anythnig...

Dogtown.. you too are a fraud. Ever look up Rob Balsamo's Dad? Sony Music? Ouch.

If he is not Balsamo, he is his twin, or posting from his apartment in the rain! With Balsamo pulling the strings! I have not seen a more brainwashed member of p4t, who is so much like the truthNAZI whose best work is this below... (he even copies the "old timer" crap; sounds like my kids, but they are able to understand 9/11; I fear HX is worshipping jdx)

“… deserves to die a traitors [sic] death for trying to suppress 9/11 families from seeking the Truth.”–"Pilots for Truth" founder, and ex-commercial pilot, Robert Balsamo

...And a few months later:


"… does deserve to die a traitors death....

I will not apologize for it this time. I will be there for his death should America fall into Civil War. That is not a threat. .that is a promise.
If he gets in my way of defending our Constitution.. it will be my pleasure to put a bullet in his head to defend our Constitution from enemies foreign or domestic." –"Pilots for Truth" founder Robert Balsamo

So where is you FDR stuff to prove your "no theory" stuff?

You have "no theory", what is your purpose? You post zero evidence and just post tribute to the p4t cult leader, Balsamo, the seller of false information DVD. Have you see the dumb statements he makes on the 77 flight path video. I was laughing all day. You guys make up some serious stupid stuff, and sell it!

No theory is equal to no clue. p4t

 

[DGM]

SoG,

what part of "Pilotsfor911truth.org does not make the claim that "No Boeing 757 hit the
Pentagon". " do you not understand?

The NTSB data is proof of nothing, and we have stated as such on many occassio... you know what.. SoG.. you're a waste of time. Circular arguments, failure to click, read, and comprehend. Let readers decide.

Why don't we all just go with the thousands of people that worked the crash site (And witnessed with their own eyes that 77 crashed there).

"Truthers" Pentagon debate over. You don't have to thank me now, just apologies to all the people you've insulted with this ignorance.

 

[Dog Town]

Dogtown.. are accusations of socks against JREF rules?

Dogtown.. tell us again how you informed Sony to go after P4T for using AC/DC in their film.... ohhh. .that's right... P4T haven't sold anything...

So why all this anomosity toward P4T for selling stuff?

(insert laughing dog here)

AC/DC is on our side.. obviously..

And we continue to sell the DVD, even though we offer for free front page.

Dogtown.. you too are a fraud. Ever look up Rob Balsamo's Dad? Sony Music? Ouch.

First off: I was saying hi to Rob, because you keep using the term we, around here. I know he is reading it.

As far as Sony not giving a rats patootie about you:
No one else does why should they? And for the record, it was AOL I contacted about the usage of said music. As they owned the catalogue at the time. The girl I knew left shortly there after. Big freaking deal.


Curious though, is the AC/DC still on the discs you sell?
Only Robie boy ever argued this before with me, odd that you would even know about it?

ETA:
HI ROB!!!

 

[stateofgrace]

SoG,

what part of "Pilotsfor911truth.org does not make the claim that "No Boeing 757 hit the
Pentagon". " do you not understand?

The NTSB data is proof of nothing, and we have stated as such on many occassio... you know what.. SoG.. you're a waste of time. Circular arguments, failure to click, read, and comprehend. Let readers decide.

So, rather than attack me any chance you will answer the question?

Irrefutable proof, have you got any? The reason I ask is because another one of your team is claiming he as proved that Flight 77 did not hit the Pentagon.

Do you disagree with him?

 

[nicepants]

Curious though, is the AC/DC still on the discs you sell?
Only Robie boy ever argued this before with me, odd that you would even know about it?

Why would that be odd?
Oh...right...I keep forgetting that hxstamper is not Rob.

 

[Dog Town]

Why would that be odd?

Good question!

 

[Reheat]

Why would that be odd?
Oh...right...I keep forgetting that hxstamper is not Rob.

Of course, not. Everyone that I know uses strawmans just like Robbie does.