A thread in response to the UN Rape allegations thread

[SwissSkeptic]

I do know that being spat at and being called a Jew feels just the same as being accused as being in league with David Irving, an insult that is regularly levelled at me.

I know I don't belong in this thread and all but...AUP, do you even read what you write before you hit "submit"?

 

[Questioninggeller]

I haven't missed anything, I am openly calling for censorship of trolls at JREF...

No more censorship. If someone says something that's stupid it's their fault not the duty of JREF to prevent it. It already pisses me off that are not treated like adults on here, in the sense that we can't say f*uck and ◊◊◊◊.

You didn't have to click on the link. I'm glad you have your say, but you opinion and "feelings" should not be forced upon the rest of us. Yeah, the thread is dumb, but we should not filter out opinions just because we don't agree with them in their crude nature. How can you have honest debate with censorship?


For the record I avoided this thread because the title was so stupid it wasn't worth my time. The reason why I wound up here was because of ZN's thread about "trolls" that had a link and him preaching about censorship. Other than that I would have never view the crap posted on here.

No more f*cking censorship.

 

[zenith-nadir]

I know I don't belong in this thread and all but...AUP, do you even read what you write before you hit "submit"?

My final post.... I promise a_u_p, Cleon and the Fool, you guys "own" JREF now.

Even worse SwissSkeptic there are people defending a_u_p , a_u_p now claims he was the one wronged and some even posted that they found a_u_p's post "funny". That is what JREF has become.

 

[SwissSkeptic]

My spider senses are telling me to stay away from this part of the forum...far, far away.

 

[a_unique_person]

I know I don't belong in this thread and all but...AUP, do you even read what you write before you hit "submit"?

I did not explain, it was the way he said Jew, like being accused of being an animal. IIRC, it was something like, "you look like a Jew", then he spat at me. It was not being called a Jew that bothered me, it was his tone of voice and the spitting.

And if it sounds like I am feeling flustered at the moment, I am.

 

[a_unique_person]

My final post.... I promise a_u_p, Cleon and the Fool, you guys "own" JREF now.

Even worse SwissSkeptic there are people defending a_u_p , a_u_p now claims he was the one wronged and some even posted that they found a_u_p's post "funny". That is what JREF has become.

I don't recall anyone finding the post funny, I certainly didn't feel it was funny when I posted it. I was sick of Skeptic and his league of followers accusing me, yet again, of being something I am not, when he is free to spew forth anything he wants at anyone for no proven reason whatsoever. He does not like to see himself in the mirror.

 

[SwissSkeptic]

I did not explain, it was the way he said Jew, like being accused of being an animal. IIRC, it was something like, "you look like a Jew", then he spat at me. It was not being called a Jew that bothered me, it was his tone of voice and the spitting.

And if it sounds like I am feeling flustered at the moment, I am.

Fair Enough.
There are some points I'd like to bring up but I'll do myself and others a favor and refrain from posting any further in this section of the forum.

 

[a_unique_person]

Fair Enough.
There are some points I'd like to bring up but I'll do myself and others a favor and refrain from posting any further in this section of the forum.

And as I said, when Skeptic and friends accuse me of being like David Irving, the feeling is once again, of being spat at.

 

[Kevin_Lowe]

I don't recall anyone finding the post funny, I certainly didn't feel it was funny when I posted it.

I did. It was funny, and an excellent response to Skeptic's post.

I found Skeptic's posting far, far more offensive than AUP's because AUP's post was, at worst, an ill-considered satire. AUP is guilty of bad judgement at most and I find that easy to forgive.

(I do understand that others here are very sensitive about anti-semitic sentiments, and take badly to them in any context. Fair enough. I don't share your reaction but I'm not criticising it).

Skeptic's post was a vicious, scatological, irrational and hateful attack made with genuine intent. It's a different kind of offence entirely. As is Skeptic's habit of accusing other posters of being closet neo-Nazis.

 

[Skeptic]

I did not explain, it was the way he said Jew, like being accused of being an animal. IIRC, it was something like, "you look like a Jew", then he spat at me. It was not being called a Jew that bothered me, it was his tone of voice and the spitting.

And if it sounds like I am feeling flustered at the moment, I am.

Oh come on, AUP. You know that isn't REALLY antisemitism.

It's surely just that he was, er, protesting against Sharon's evil policies, or it was perhaps just an "anti-zionist" who forgot to use the word "zionist" instead of "jew" for a moment by mistake, or an act of "physical protest" against the "occupation", or an emotional outburst due to reading about awful zionist crimes on the internet, or something. And it is all the fault of the israeli government "kicking the hornet's nest" and "stirring up" trouble in foreign lands by its actions, anyway.

At least, that is what you keep telling us the case is when SOMEBODY ELSE is attacked by jew-haters.

So, what's the big deal? I know it must hurt you in the worst way to be comapred with such inhuman beasts like the jews, er, zionists, but, hey, when you fight the good fight against "racist zionism", you must be ready to such occassional misidentifications.

Think of it as your own little sacrifice in the just and good battle for israel's destruction.

 

[Cleon]

My final post....

Another "final" post. You know, for a guy who decides he's living and throws a hissy fit, you make a lot of "final" posts.

Quit acting like a baby and yelling "I'm leaving." Either quit or don't. The act is getting old.

 

[BobK]

I certainly think the starting of this thread was trollish behavior. With nothing to reference the OP to, one is left with the idea that it is suppose to be a true article.(the link took me to a reg. page)

Starting a new thread is similar to saying "this is something new that I find interesting". Since there was already a thread running on the actual article, to not post it there leaves me with the impression that AUP was looking for attention.

Since the title of AUP's thread can inflame others, and there was no indication in his OP that it was a parody, I can only conclude that his intent was simply to inflame others with no justification. If that's not trolling, what is it?

I think zenith-nadir was right on the money when pointing out the trolling.

If AUP was interested in any serious discussion of the subject, he would have posted in Skeptic's thread.

 

[a_unique_person]

I certainly think the starting of this thread was trollish behavior. With nothing to reference the OP to, one is left with the idea that it is suppose to be a true article.(the link took me to a reg. page)

Starting a new thread is similar to saying "this is something new that I find interesting". Since there was already a thread running on the actual article, to not post it there leaves me with the impression that AUP was looking for attention.

Since the title of AUP's thread can inflame others, and there was no indication in his OP that it was a parody, I can only conclude that his intent was simply to inflame others with no justification. If that's not trolling, what is it?

I think zenith-nadir was right on the money when pointing out the trolling.

If AUP was interested in any serious discussion of the subject, he would have posted in Skeptic's thread.

Yep, I made a mistake, that is what I should have done. I have already asked for the title of the thread to be changed. There is a link in the OP to skeptics original thread. I am going to ask for the thread to be appended to skeptics thread, if that can be done.

 

[davefoc]

AUP, I am not sure whether the way you attempted to make your point was appropriate or not. Earthborn persuaded me that it wasn't and Kenvin_Lowe persuaded me that it was.

But at this time it seems confusing and unnecessary to do what you suggest. In a sense the title of the thread and the tactic of the thread became the point of the discussion and changing either one at this time seems like a bad idea to me. I do think it was good that your OP was modified to link to Skeptic's thread however.

One bad thing has come out of your thread, ZN has left the forum. While I agree with Cleon's view of the situation that he posted in another thread, I am still disapointed to see that ZN has left the forum. I hope he will change his mind. I don't think that your thread should be seen as the cause, I just think that when you go down the path that you chose unintended, undesired and unanticipated consequences can be the result and perhaps this should be factored into the issue of whether to make a point with an inflamatory approach or not.

 

[a_unique_person]

ZN is a part of a group, as I pointed out, that have accused me of being an anti-semite like David Irving. I can't say I'd be sorry to see any of them go, after being accused of being so low and immoral.

I may make mistakes, but I think I have a conscience still, and regret hurting people, eg, Lucky. They have no qualms about their accusations, which are only based, as they say, on what I don't really say, because I am too deceptive to come out and say it openly. If you are going to be like that, then too bad.

 

[Lucky]

Froma_u_p:
And on that basis I am prepared to apologise.

I don't recall if I have told you this, but I was once accosted on the street when I was a teenager, told I was a Jew, and spat at. Not at all a pleasant experience.

a_u_p: I accept your apology, of course. You have taken rather a battering over this, and I sympathise, but on the other hand I do think it is somewhat deserved. You surely must have known that your parody would cause pain to any Jew reading it, but you ignored that because you wanted to make a point.

So, I think you should just make it clear that you are apologising to all Jews here (including Skeptic and z-n) and leave it at that.

As for your experience of an anti-semitic attack, I think you once mentioned that you had a Jewish great-great grandfather (or something like that) and my first (fleeting) thought about your anecdote was, ‘So, he was spat at in the street for having a Jewish great-great grandfather. Well, he lives in Australia; what does he expect?’. So, perhaps I have a little unsuspected anti-Australian prejudice that I should confront.

Earthborn is right: this is very reminiscent of Mycroft’s gaffe. I was interested to see, on re-reading that thread, that you didn’t fall for the temptation of denouncing him as a racist bigot. (He isn’t, and neither are you.)

 

[Cleopatra]

To whom it concerns:

If this is the thread you wanted me to read then I have to agree with you that it's nasty.Hmmmm. Ok I am upset and after I hit the reply button I will leave my pc. Although I "take pride in the fact" that I can identify within seconds when the poster who composed the OP is posting in jest this time I was fooled and for a moment I though" Oh my God. What have we done this time".

You see the reason why I thought so, even for a moment is because I thought that the poster in question knows the limits and he would never do that. I mean I can understand what made him compose the parody ( I said "understand" and not " justify") but why he chose the Israelis and not the Greeks or the Australians to make his point?

The explanation that richard gave is ridiculous( kudos for the eloquent way you spewed it BTW but a spit is always a spit...).
I am at a complete loss for words all I will add is that I cannot understand how can anybody harbour such strong emotions about an issue that doesn't affect his everyday life.

 

[Cleopatra]

a_u_p: I accept your apology, of course. You have taken rather a battering over this, and I sympathise, but on the other hand I do think it is somewhat deserved. You surely must have known that your parody would cause pain to any Jew reading it, but you ignored that because you wanted to make a point.

Bold face, mine.

 

[shemp]

I have nothing to add. I just want to thank you all for the free entertainment.

 

[Mycroft]

Originally posted by zenith-nadir
Even worse SwissSkeptic there are people defending a_u_p , a_u_p now claims he was the one wronged and some even posted that they found a_u_p's post "funny". That is what JREF has become.

I was shocked and sickened by that too.

On AUP and co "winning", that's up to you. It can only be accomplished by your leaving the field under their terms, which is what you've told us is your plan.

I encourage you to stay.