A thread in response to the UN Rape allegations thread

[Megalodon]

Another Ad hom.

If I call you an idiot, it is an ad-hom...
If I say that my point passed over your head, it's a statement of fact... another example of this is for me to say that your reading skills haven't improved recently.

 

[The Fool]

"Why do the jews desire to destroy palestine? Because palestinians are "goyim" - (a person who refuses to submit himself to the jewish faith, a disbeliever.) - period, end of story."

Is this the sort or anti-semitic rubbish you want eliminated from this forum ZN?

ooooops, see the actual quote is...

Why do the Arabs desire to destroy Israel? Because jews are "kafir" - (a person who refuses to submit himself to Allah, a disbeliever.) - period, end of story.

guess who its from....

 

[zenith-nadir]

If I call you an idiot, it is an ad-hom...
If I say that my point passed over your head, it's a statement of fact... another example of this is for me to say that your reading skills haven't improved recently.

Your post implied that I am too stupid to get the great Megalodon's point...which I am not...and that is "appealing to personal considerations" which is an ad hom einstein.

Is this the sort of trolling post you want action taken on ZN?

So now the fool is defending the "rights" of Hamas, Al Aqsa, Islamic Jihad, Al-Fateh and Hizbollah militants from being joked about...is it a full moon or something today?

guess who its from..

That's it...when the ad homs fail go into deflection mode to protect a_u_p. It is what I expect. (p.s. jews are considered kafir by muslims and there isn't anything you can do about it except use it in a lame attempt to steer the focus away from a_u_p.... Kufr, Kafara, Kafir, and derivative forms of the word, refer to people who reject following Islam)

 

[Megalodon]

Your post implied that I am too stupid to get the great Megalodon's point...which I am not...and that is "appealing to personal considerations" which is an ad hom einstein.

There was no implication. My post had a point, you addressed something different. Thus, you missed the point.

However, I'm starting to think that my first example was a statement of fact also...

 

[davefoc]

ZN,
I was a little grossed out by AUP's thread and it took me awhile to figure out what his point was.

I am not sure that it was the best way to make his point or that it was wise to write in a way that could potentially be seen as inflammatory.

But would you really want to censor this kind of speech?

Do you see that his point is just that defaming entire groups based on the actions of a few is problematic?

Perhaps you could take a look at the other thread and comment on whether you feel that AUP has made a fair parody of skeptic's thread or not.

 

[Hutch]

And of course, ZN, if we are to boycott trolls, we should also boycott liars....

posted by zenith-nadir
So Tmy, Hutch and Cleon will do and say anything in order to deny Arab countries - namely Saudi Arabia - raise more money for suicide bombers than tsunami victims.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

posted by hutch
I have, in my 13 months and nearly 900 posts, never called anyone a liar before...but you are a liar on the above. To quote my own post in this thread:.

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Now it may be that ZN is quite right in his supposition that the Arab world is doing less than it could.....
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

[The Fool]

Keep it up ZN, you have not gone under yet.....keep swimming.

Are these more examples of the kind of anti-semitic trolling you want to see stamped out?

the entire Israeli people, are full of genocidal hate for the arabs.

Sorry to disappoint you, but it isn't a "few" bad apples. The entire Israeli Government, the entire Israeli people, are full of genocidal hate for the Arabs.

Is this the sort of stuff you find unacceptable????

funny thing is....the actual quotes from skeptic are...

the entire palestinian people, are full of genocidal hate for the jews.

Sorry to disappoint you, but it isn't a "few" bad apples. The entire palestinian authority, the entire palestinian people, are full of genocidal hate for the jews.

but of course in that form, and being from skeptic...you have no problem with them at all.

keep going ZN....Keep working on the indignant outrage its starting to mellow off a bit as the thread goes on.

 

[The Fool]

And of course, ZN, if we are to boycott trolls, we should also boycott liars....

No, no, no...he has no problem with liars...he broke an all time JREF record (unless anyone can find a post with more) by posting ten lies in one post...not a thread, a single post...

I present the JREF world record for lying, note he uses the word "they" because he accused Myself and another poster at the same time...

Here is the record breaking list and my replies.. I'll count them down from ten...

10) All humans that are jewish are refered to as "zionists".

first Lie...please show where I have said this

9) They quote Chomsky as intellectual evidence.

2nd lie please site one time i have quoted him.

8) They use maps from electronic intifada.

3rd lie please show one example

7) They characterize the 1948 war where Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, Jordan, Saudi Arabia and Egypt attacked Israel simultaneously as "driving out the original population, [palestinians], at the point of a gun to ensure thier majority"

4th lie please show one example of where I have said this.....I believe mycroft decided that when I talked about ethnic cleansing of arabs I was specifically talking about one perticular war...you must be confused...no I take that back, you are probably not confused...this is the 4th lie in a row. That tends to indicate deliberate lying rather than confusion.

6) They claim "zionists" want to take over the entire middle east.

5th lie...not the entire middle east. I said it is the goal of zionism to have israel cover the entire original british mandate...this is the last time I correct you on this topic.


5) They call Israel 'racist' when they themselves call all jews 'zionists'

6th lie....please show me where I have "called israel racist" and show me where I have called all jews zionists.

4) They call Israel 'apartheid' when they themselves can't stand even one jew living anywhere on the West Bank

7th lie....please show me anywhere I have ever mentioned anything about jews living on the west bank????

3) They refuse to answer the question "After 30 years of Arafat's rule has the quality of life for Palestinians become better or worse?"

8th lie...please show me where you have asked me this question and I have refused to answer .....anyway, answering it is easy. The quality of life of palestinians has become much worse in the last 30 years. Arafat is an Idiot, can you think of any other contributing factors in the decline of the palestinians?

2) They feel suicide bombing Israeli civilians far from the battle is 'resistance' because A) Palestinians don't have F-16s or Apaches, B) the settlements, C) the anti-terror wall, D) evil zionist plots.

9th lie... Please quote me saying this.

1) They never ever critisize Arafat or the Palestinian Authority for the plight of the Palestinians or hold them responsible as the leaders of the Palestinians.

10th lie....Now to be fair I can't ask you to quote me not critisizing Arafat or the palestinian authority...I do, people who post here or a little longer than you and have an IQ above room temperature have probably noticed this....If you want to make an issue of it try searching my posts for the word ARAFAT....possibly you could have checked before you shot your mouth but as this is obviously yet another part of your goebbells disinformation campagn it would have been pointless to gather facts first.

as yet he has not chosen to defend or provide a quote to back up any of them...

keep at it ZN....you are an ideal choice for JREF moral guardian.

 

[zenith-nadir]

ZN, I was a little grossed out by AUP's thread and it took me awhile to figure out what his point was.

I am beginning to believe that trolling at JREF is acceptable as long as one rationalizes it for "parody".

I am not sure that it was the best way to make his point or that it was wise to write in a way that could potentially be seen as inflammatory.

Potentially be seen as inflammatory?... potentially be seen as inflammatory? What does a_u_p have to do to inflame you dave??? Burn a cross on your lawn or spray paint swastikas on your frikkin forehead? a_u_p chose Israel and jews to troll with because skeptic is jewish. That is trolling 101.

But would you really want to censor this kind of speech?

BECAUSE this thread is misleading, inflammatory, full of lies, has no meaningful contribution to JREF, is socially inept, is attention-seeking, outrageous, argumentative, conflicting, and it's only purpose is to inflame and pollute JREF with nonsensical bull ◊◊◊◊. Sound like trolling? Does it sound like reason enough Dave or shall I spray paint swastikas on your forehead for emphasis?

Perhaps you could take a look at the other thread and comment on whether you feel that AUP has made a fair parody of skeptic's thread or not.

If it was a "parody" why did he chose Israel and jews dave? They have nothing to do with the UN or alleged rapes in the Congo. a_u_p chose not to comment in Skeptics thread even once.

And of course, ZN, if we are to boycott trolls, we should also boycott liars....

So now trolls should be "protected" at JREF because you choose to associate feelings about one thing with another, unrelated thing.




This thread clearly illustrates many explanations, rationalizations and apologies for trolling... such behaviour taints JREF to the worldwide audience who view these pages....and people are defending a_u_p!... and I am the only one who is willing to call a spade a spade.

 

[Mycroft]

Re: "If you Rape an Underage Girl, Make Sure you Are Wearing a Yamulka"

Surprise, surprise: the corrupt to the core Israel, exposed as being the beneficiary of the largest bribes in human history, had also its yamulka-helmeted troops also running an underage sex Ring in Brazil (Sex, apparently, what the Jews take from you if you can't pay cash.)

This is disgusting, even for you.

By your logic, I should be able to start a thread bashing any race or religion I want, all I need to do is copy the phrasing of another thread targeting a real atrocity.

The U.N. has very real problems right now. Exposing them to public scrutiny, even with fiery language, is not an act of racism.

This "parody" is racist in the extreme.

 

[Megalodon]

This thread clearly illustrates many explanations, rationalizations and apologies for trolling... such behaviour taints JREF to the worldwide audience who view these pages....and people are defending a_u_p!... and I am the only one who is willing to call a spade a spade.

This thread clearly illustrates how, if trolling was banned, zn would have to search for another place to post...

 

[richardm]

If it was a "parody" why did he chose Israel and jews dave?

At a guess, I'd say it was because the people who are most vociferous in their attacks on the UN happen to be people who are most vociferous in their defence of Israel. By replacing the UN with a subject dear to their hearts, AUP was able to show how ridiculous it is to blame and dismiss an entire people (or organisation) for the actions of a few individuals. Yes, it was deliberate - that was the point; to show how misleading and inflammatory posts like the "UN are rapists" one was.

Judging by your reaction, he was clearly right on the money.

I'm aware that for some people, criticising Israel or any individual Jew in any way whatsoever is anti-semitism and indefensible, but I think in this particular case the choice was a sound one.

 

[zenith-nadir]

At a guess, I'd say it was because the people who are most vociferous in their attacks on the UN happen to be people who are most vociferous in their defence of Israel. By replacing the UN with a subject dear to their hearts, AUP was able to show how ridiculous it is to blame and dismiss an entire people (or organisation) for the actions of a few individuals. Yes, it was deliberate - that was the point; to show how misleading and inflammatory posts like the "UN are rapists" one was.

Judging by your reaction, he was clearly right on the money.

I'm aware that for some people, criticising Israel or any individual Jew in any way whatsoever is anti-semitism and indefensible, but I think in this particular case the choice was a sound one.

Thank you Richard for providing excuse #300 for why trolling is ok at JREF....

 

[crimresearch]

I wouldn't mind if somehow, all of the trolls and cyberstalkers disappeared from JREF tomorrow, but that would require paranormal skills that would put Randi out of business.

 

[richardm]

Thank you Richard for providing excuse #300 for why trolling is ok at JREF....

I always like to keep to round numbers.

 

[Matabiri]

Yes, it was deliberate - that was the point; to show how misleading and inflammatory posts like the "UN are rapists" one was.

Isn't this the first rule of checking for unconscious prejudice? If you're going to say something about entire group of people X, try replacing X with "blacks"/"Jews"/"women" and see if it sounds unwarrentedly bigoted. If it does, it was probably bigoted about X in the first place.

 

[Skeptic]

Re: "If you Rape an Underage Girl, Make Sure you Are Wearing a Yamulka"

Well, AUP has finally lost it completely.

Yeah yeah yeah, don't tell me: it's a "parody" of my (or, rather, Mark Steyn's) article. But for some reason, I don't think the "parodic" revival of the slur on jews as seducers of young girls is, shall we say, appropriate--although it is understandable that A Unique "I am not an antisemite" Person jumped at the chance to use this wonderful headline. Since, of course, saying "satire!!! Just joking!!!" is an excuse for every lack of taste or disgusting behavior.

Actually, this belongs on the "Another thread smearing a group by cherry picking a scandal" thread, but looking at it, it seems that thead has been hilacked, the hostages shot, the bodies burned, and the ashes thrown into the sea.

Well, no.

First of all, when UN-run child prostitutions rings are uncovers fast on the heels of the exposure of the largest bribery scandal in human history, which itself is hot on the trail of the UN's usual incompetence in stopping Iran's nukes, its refusal to classify Darfur as a genocide as to not insult Khartum,
and so on and so forth--examples can be mutiplied almost endlessly (let us not forget Rwanda and Kosovo, for instance), this is not cherry picking.

It shows, rather, that incompetence and corruption are an essential part of the UN "humanitarian missions". This is not cherry picking; as Steyn notes, UN missions are corrupt because the UN itself is, which is hardly surprising, as he says, since the UN is an organization where despots and tyrants have automatic majorities. Despotic government are, by their very nature, corrupt and incompetent, and therefore they make the UN so as well. Why would one expect that--say--Cuba or Iran would behave any differently when it is in the UN than it usually does?

When in Rome, do as the Visigoths do by the incomparable Ima Hack.

Well, no, for two reasons.

Second, Steyn is not a hack. He is, rather, one of the most perceptive journalists in England, having--for example--been one of the few to openly predict a strong republican victory (and for the right reasons, as well), at the time where most of the British press was celebrating the coming defeat of Chimp Buhitler, the world's dumbest fascist, or sending holier-than-thou letters to the stupid, fat Americans in Ohio and elsewhere explaining to them exactly why they just have to vote for Kerry.

Third, your "moral equivalence" case--an israeli diplomat involved in a scandal with an underage girl--is hardly the same thing as the UN relief agencies running what was in effect informal brothels for pedophiles. You just took the first article you found blaming some jew for some sexual crime and decided that this is "close enough" for your purposes--which, of course, it isn't, not remotely.

As usual, in other words, you had the choice: you could either not reply to my post about Steyn's article and be thought a fool for supporting the UN--or opening your big keyboard and removing all doubt that you are a none-too-smart jew-hater.

 

[varwoche]

I wouldn't mind if somehow, all of the trolls and cyberstalkers disappeared from JREF tomorrow

This post should be bronzed and submitted to the Hypocrisy Hall of Fame.

 

[Matabiri]

Re: Re: "If you Rape an Underage Girl, Make Sure you Are Wearing a Yamulka"

Second, Steyn is not a hack. He is, rather, one of the most perceptive journalists in England

Ha ha ha!

Of course he's a hack. He's one of the most openly biased opinion columnists in the Daily Telegraph, for goodness sake, and I don't suppose his work for other outlets is any better.

His "perception" generally seems to boil down to the Republican party line, filtered for a British audience. He's egregious.

I can't believe you wrote that sentence with a straight face.

 

[Frank Newgent]

...turning people against each other by creating chaos and delighting in sowing discord...

Indeed. The world is far too turbulent. I just hope that when I die I go peacefully in my sleep like my father did and not screaming in terror like his passengers.